Off Road School

[toddsmith1]

I am a proud 97' Crusier owner and I wanted to share this with all of the other hopelessly addicted owners on this site. (I have spent way too much money because of MUD) This does have a technical aspect, but probably should be in a different thread. There are many drivers out there who have owned cruisers for many years and have never taken them off road. They just don't know how. I was one of those people. I always planned on it, but I did not know how or where to go. So for Christmas this year, my gift to my self was an off roading class at Overland Express in Connecticut. (I know there is a great school in the west also)I almost didn’t go because of finances, but my wife actually convinced me it was a good investment. (Yes my wife convinced me to take an off road school, I love reverse psychology). She said that I could do allot more damage to the truck if I did not know what I was doing. Of course she is right. You will NEVER regret this investment!!. Bruce Elfstrom at Overland is a true expert and overall is just a great guy. He trains Army Special Forces to drive in the mountains of Afghanistan using night vision glasses.(look up pictures of Afgany mountains on the web) He also leads expeditions all over the world. So needless to say I felt he was more than qualified to teach me, and boy did he! My wife also took a day of training and she is already making plans to go back this summer and learn more and take my 16-year daughter. (I’m not staying home!)
If you have EVER wanted to know the absolute thrill of off roading and did not know where to get the training, I highly suggest calling Bruce. Even if you are a hard core off roader, you can always learn new tricks. You will find that your 80 series LC is one of the, if not the best, off road truck ever made! First Hand! By taking the course, you will save your self alot of down time doing repairs to a damaged truck! See this was a Tech post. PM me if you want more info. See my pics.

[Junk]

trails - events not tech.

Want to learn how to wheel, then go out with your local club. More knowledge about your crusier that way and meet some cool local folks.

[woody]

Your local club can certainly teach a lot, but I know I learned a few neat tricks while I was out with the Trail Teams...many of their drivers have taken these types of classes and it shows in their abilities and confidence on the trails.

Sounds like you had a great experience!

[Ting]

how much does it usually cost? What did Bruce say about 80, and what does he drive?

[toddsmith1]

You can go to Bruce's web site http://www.overlandexperts.com.
It will answer all questions. I plan on going out with the local club. I meet the president to the local chapter about a week before I took the course. I plan on learning a lot with them. I wanted to have a basic understanding before I went anywhere! I did not want to look like a complete idiot or wreak my truck! Another big advantage for me was my wife's involvement. If I would have started with the local club, she probably would not have joined me. Now she is the one that wants to hit the trail. Plus, since she has a good idea about manuvering off road, it is more safe. If we go out and something happens to me, she will be able to get us out of the woods. I would never do heavy off roading by myself though. I will allways go with at least one other truck. Too many things can go wrong!!!!!!

[rusty_tlc]

For those of you don't live close enough to drive to the trail. This guy has a good speel. In spite of the name of his outfit, Lake Tahoe Jeep Rentals for Rubicon Trail, most of his rigs are FJ40's.

Will I be going on one of his trips?

Hell no, I'm going with my local Cruiser Club.

I thought some people might be interested to know they can actually rent an FJ40 to take over the Rubicon.

[Ting]

nice link rusty.

[DanKunz]

I taught a class a few weeks ago

[mainemike]

I've been lurking for a year on this site, educating myself on the 80s from all you fine folks. Just saw this old post and figured it was a good way to introduce myself and add some value - without being an 80 owner yet. I hired Bruce at Overland Experts for a 2-day intensive class tailored to my ability level, 1-on-1. It also served as an intensive test drive of his 80, which confirmed that this will be my next vehicle.

I know everyone reacts differently to the concept of taking a driving class, and his runs about $500/day if you want 1-on-1. IMHO, it was worth it. I'm a mid-level experienced driver; I do have a lot of 4wd experience, but not so much rock crawling, my background is expedition travel. When you are self-supported, and solo, you don't pick the hardest line for fun!

I am used to the value of training exercises from search and rescue, ski patrol, rock climbing - if you get the right instructor, you can learn a lot, regardless of your experience. Not everyone can shelf their ego and be good student.

Bruce taught me many of the aspects of driving you don't always get from a local club or weekend outing, because he has a known quantity. He put me in situations on his course that he knew the outcome - meaning he knew if I would get stuck, or not; he knew when my line was off - and he lets you figure out how 'off' you may be... he's done it a thousand times for students.

He is a big Toyota fan, the 80 is his number one vehicle choice, although he has Rovers because other clients have an obsession for them as well. I spent a few hours in the Discovery and Defender as well, it was great to play with them, and then the 80, and see how each vehicle handles different situations. If you haven't racked up hours in a short wheelbase rig it is a good chance to do so. But I spent most of the time in the 80, and it was, IMHO, the most secure and capable - although, as every 80 owners knows, it can feel mighty large in a hurry.

The biggest thing you learn with Bruce is how to be safe, and the second thing is how to read trail in a variety of conditions. He has built a course with rocks, trees, side slopes, climbs, whoops, leaves, water.. virtually every condition can be replicated.

I drove my truck on some appropriate sections (Nissan Pathfinder) but why drive your own truck when you can experiment in another - I mean, that is part of the purchase price. Bruce is rarely in the truck with you - he is spotting, and watching where you make the bad choices, and explaining how you made a few minor errors in a row and the cumulative effect suddenly puts you in a very bad situation.

My fondest memories were in the Defender 90, on rocks, in trouble, when Bruce calmly walks over and says "You're real close to 35 degrees, and this vehicle will roll at 38, so you need to make a decision to change your line...I suggest you back up about 2 inches, no more, and ...." the lesson continues.

I've had too many group trail runs which were populated by idiots. Well meaning idiots, perhaps, but nevertheless I'm lucky if I meet a handful of competent, mature drivers who I can trust. I'm sure many of you have quality clubs that can teach newbies the ropes, but you probably know all too well the idiots I speak of. If you have an 80, and haven't put it in many compromising situations, I think its totally worth it to spend a day with Bruce. It's a lot cheaper than making a real-world mistake on the trail!

And his 80 is fully locked, lifted, on 35s... it is the vehicle many here are working towards building, so if you're in New England his school is an excellent opportunity.

Sorry for the long "intro post" - I finally found something I could contribute to!

m.

[Ting]

Is Bruce on the mud?

[mainemike]

Bruce is not on the Mud, although he may lurk. I asked him about that, and understand his reply - which was something like 'it's not worth the confrontational aspects'. Giving free advice on expedition and driving tips can be problematic when you are a professional - I doubt he has the time either. Look at his schedule on his website. Unlike most of us who enjoy the obsession as a real-world alternative of sorts, when you make it your business 24/7 you get your 'fix' sooner.

[woody]

hhhmm....wonder if I can go back to lurking....

good info Mike on his classes!

[Ting]

Originally Posted by mainemike

Bruce is not on the Mud, although he may lurk. I asked him about that, and understand his reply - which was something like 'it's not worth the confrontational aspects'. Giving free advice on expedition and driving tips can be problematic when you are a professional - I doubt he has the time either. Look at his schedule on his website. Unlike most of us who enjoy the obsession as a real-world alternative of sorts, when you make it your business 24/7 you get your 'fix' sooner.

cDan can do both, and he is good at it too...

[Hekla]

Bruce Elfstrom here.....

I do lurk a bit, its just time thats tough to find, not willingness and/or interest. I just found out I was mentioned here, Navy SEAL student told me he saw it while overseas. Very cool.

Thank you all for the kind words about OEX. We have been at it since 1999 and I was at it way before that. (First vehicle was a 1973 FJ40---I was eight when I started driving it.)

Currently I run two 80 series, one BJ75 (on 38s with air suspension, etc), one FJ60, one FJ Cruiser, one LR Defender d90, one LR Disco 1997, one Pajero, one roller (teaching to right a vehicle), Suzuki Samurai. Yes i like rovers too, and Gaz, Jeeps, etc. But around the world in 80 days, give me a cruiser.


We do everything from teaching individual drivers the very intro stuff, to 10 days hardcore for Special Ops training or rock crawlers. We have our trips to Iceland, Mongolia, Chile, NZ, Costa Rica, etc. Also consultation is a part of what we do, producing films, expedition leading, etc.. Take a look at Dinosaurs Alive (IMAX) with great wheeling pix and a 1963 FJ40!

I do not lurk often, but this is the forum I send most people to if they are needing help or just interested in communicating with a good group of logical peoiple that do not suffer TROLLS for very long. This is the only forum I personally go to every so often. This includes many non-Cruiser types. I do get good info on current mods available for cruisers and tech stuff. With my hands so full here, I cannot spend as much grease time as I would like. I have to have my guys do that stuff while I sit and talk on the phone or answer e-mails. ie on my sorry butt.

I will do my best to lurk more often.

PS Club cost for training with my vehicles ranges based on lenght of class and number of individuals. As high as $750 for one person for one day, to (8 or more people) about $200 each or so per day for three days. We have a certification program for trail leaders, its a long program, ...drop me a note.

Cheers, Bruce Elfstrom

[cruiser88]

East coast if you can dig the cost and the ride

Off-Road Driving | The Greenbrier | America's Resort since 1778.

[uzj100]

Bill Burke teaches classes in Uwharrie in NC. I went last year on a two day class and it was great. I would highly recommend it. He is teaching another 2 day class this summer and 1 day advanced class.

4-Wheeling America, 4x4 driving school, 4WD, Off-Road Driving--Industrial, Government, Receational, Moab & Colorado adventure trips

[missouriman]

awsome tech.
I am in south dakota and really thinking about taking one of these courses.
thanks for bringing it to those of us that don't surf the trails and events section to often.

[Hekla]

Bruce Elfstrom here; if you cannot get to the east coast to my school, I suggest Harald Pietschmann at 4x4 ABC. Harold and I have worked together on some developing Nations 4x4 work and other projects. He runs Land Cruisers and is very good at what he does. We both train many Special Ops groups per year and I hear great things about his style from teams coming to OEX---very scientific and methodical like mine. Tell him I sent you.

There is also Bill Burke in CO. He and I worked on the International Four Wheel Drive Trainers Association together in its infancy.

Frenchie La Chance and I have worked together and he is a great source of skills.

My thoughts on training........you cannot have enough. When I started OEX in 1999 I had already spent over 25 years "wheeling" all over the world and extensively in USA. I was also a Biology Professor and knew about working in the field. I had worked as an Ax-man/Lumberjack in Maine for two years, so I knew rigging. I had worked as a commercial fisherman for years in Maine as well. I had already been training 4x4 drivers for years. That said, I went and sought out the best drivers in the world. Pro-Trax UK. Conrico, UK. Land Rover UK and USA. Sand driving from the experts in the Middle East and North Africa. Snow in Iceland. Mud in Vietnam and Costa Rica....etc, even Bill Burke before he was training trainers. All together 7 training certificates. Did I think I knew a lot at the start? Absolutely, but not everything. I will never know it all, but I am very good at seeing what is not right and why, then explaining how to correct it. The point is each day I meet someone new on a trail in any part of the world, I learn some new little thing (or more) and then literally incorporate it into my training manual and route for myself and my trainers. In my opinion a trainer that seems to say he/she knows it all and is the best, is one to avoid; especially if they cannot explain why their way is more logical and correct for the given situation. If you do not find modesty, you will not find a true teacher/trainer.

So go to as many schools as you can. Come to OEX or see Harold or.... Yes it might cost a bit of money, but it has the best cost to benefit ratio for any aspect of a 4x4 rig. Trust me I have saved people a huge amount of money in mods (or lack thereof), breakages, etc. A few things second to training and before leaving your front doorstep are...., a Hi-lift (with training) and first aid (with training) and comms. Third...leave your ego (and altitude) behind and work well with others as a team.

Of course time on the trail is key as well, but a good trainer can start you with the best basics (or much more) on which to grow. Think about it; why would the elite USA military send teams to non-military schools and trainers like Harold and myself? These guys must be the best at what they do, yes? But, clearly they know the value of going to those with more experience and with the skills to teach.

Good wheelers are not always good teachers. A good trainer (and I mean a pragmatic real world experience trainer not a overnight or superficial school) will truncate your learning curve by years. This is especially true in terms of aspects of the environment. Yes I am a biologist, but good 4x4 trainers should have the environment as their focus of their training for most (no not all) types of applications.

Feel free to ask me who I think is the best trainer in your area. However, please contact me via my website since I will not be on the forum often enough to help soon enough.

Now you see why I do not go on forums, I cannot seem to keep comments to less than novel-like lengths and details.....sorry.

Over and out for a few weeks or more.

Cheers, Bruce

[GRM]

As Bruce Mentioned, there is the International 4 Wheel Drive Trainers Association. They list many of the trainers throughout the country here: Find 4-Wheel Drive Trainers

Its been said, and I'll say it again, you can never have enough training. Every trainer has a different piece of experience, that makes you a better off roader. Bill Burke and Chris Nelson work together often, yet I have learned very different forms of training from each of them.

That said, I hope to spend my time off of trail teams convincing other trainers to have me come out to give them a hand so that I can not only pass my experiences and knowledge to each of their clients, but to also get to experience their form of training.

$500 spent in training is $1000 saved in broken parts!

[woody]

if you scroll up the page a bit to the Sticki's, you'll see that the new Dirty Toy School is now in existence...they are hosting 3 events across the US this year and it would be an excellent opportunity for some training time with some of the best out there.

Even with all of my offroad experience, I still find I learn new tips and tricks almost every time I'm offroad...

[4WD School]

Thanks, Woody. The Dirty Toy School events were created to offer a variety of training sessions in the morning followed by trail rides in the afternoon.

It's amazing how you can accelerate your skills when working with someone who has already figured things out.

And, you have fewer bad habits.

[informationjunky]

Hmmm new issue of "Special Operations Technology" has a pic of a white 80 with OEX on the hood and a couple of paragraphs on OEX in an article about private sector training. Also has your sweeeeet BJ70? in it!

[Hekla]

I did not see that article---is it in E form anywhere? Was it good? We do a heavy volume of SOF, Utility companies, Relief agencies, etc and they often write articles without letting me know. We are expanding to two new locations, one in USA and the other in Central America. The base will remain muddy, rocky, hilly, treey Connecticut.

The BJ 75 is now getting a bed that I am putting into production---i.e. trail type contractors box with camping, extended range tanks, drawers, roof rack, roof tent, etc, etc. I will have pix on the website when done. It will be all Aluminum and have tree sliders, sand ladder racks, all kinds of real stuff. Just added a few new vehciles...I k now this is a cruiser site, but the Defender 130 I have with 3 inch lift, and 200tdi on 34s is very pleasing to drive. Not like the BJ "beast" with an ATX turbo and 38s, but...... sometimes a much better vehicle to train with since it actually has to be driven well to get it where you want to be..

cheers and thanks for the note on the article.

Bruce

[TLCAddict]

Originally Posted by Hekla

I did not see that article---is it in E form anywhere? Was it good? We do a heavy volume of SOF, Utility companies, Relief agencies, etc and they often write articles without letting me know. We are expanding to two new locations, one in USA and the other in Central America. The base will remain muddy, rocky, hilly, treey Connecticut.

cheers and thanks for the note on the article.

Bruce

bruce, I don't think you're lurking anymore!! you're probably on the MUD forum more than you care to admit

yes. I've heard some great things about you & bill. my buddy's dad owns avenger superchargers in colorado springs, which is where I first heard your name dropped. thx for your input in previous posts.

anyways, I'm planning on signing up soon for bill's dirtytoyschool this dec. in borrego springs, ca. totally worth the price he's charging for a wknd!!!

happy trailing
jonathan