Expedition Style Trailer That Carries 2 Dirtbikes! Interest? Thoughts? Opinions?

[cruzzer]

I have lots of friends on lc4's and lc8's. I'm familiar with the disease.. Just kidding,, I even have one,, a 95 rxc400 that I picked up in boxes, several boxes.. just have to put it back together.. My wife gets real nervous every time I go the ktm dealer. They keep trying to get me on a 950 super enduro.
Are you active on advrider? lots of ktm riders there..
Oh,, and old? remember if you refuse to grow up you'll never grow old!
Steve

[Metal Twister]

Originally Posted by ArizonaCruiser

I think the new Basecamp by Airstream is an outstanding example. They are selling in the low $20k range brand new.

Airstream Basecamp :: Home Page

Very nice trailer! We are thinking along the same lines only for extereme use. Lifted, rock sliders. pinned bumpers for outriggers. etc. But I really like that it is unique, modern, and functional. Thanks for the link...

[Metal Twister]

Originally Posted by cruzzer

I have lots of friends on lc4's and lc8's. I'm familiar with the disease.. Just kidding,, I even have one,, a 95 rxc400 that I picked up in boxes, several boxes.. just have to put it back together.. My wife gets real nervous every time I go the ktm dealer. They keep trying to get me on a 950 super enduro.
Are you active on advrider? lots of ktm riders there..
Oh,, and old? remember if you refuse to grow up you'll never grow old!
Steve

I had the same issue with my EX. Now im free to enjoy my life guilt free. Im 52 and enjoy everything so much more now. And your right, you are as old as you want to be. My son, and best friend is 21 and I can still give him a run for his money on the Ktm, corse he rides a Honda xr650 so one wouldnt expect he could keep up! LOL What part of the world are you in?

[cruzzer]

I'm in NE Pa, Jim Thorpe,, we have rocky technical riding out here.. Its starting to vanish, too many lawsuits,, but I'm still having fun.. for now.. I'll be 40 in just over a year, but I ride like I'm still in my 20's.. I just don't get up as fast after hitting those trees,,
Check on advrider forum for the Jim Thorpe Smokin hole rally. You'll get some interesting pics of the event from the last two years.. Lots of ktm's out here.. I'm planning on a new 4stroker in the next year or so and a trailer to camp out of so I'm interested in your ideas. Lightweight is a bonus.. The less fuel used in towing the more fun out on the bike,,
Thanks, and happy new year!
Steve

[KOWBOY]

Reckon there's a lotta different ways to skin a cat.


eBay Motors: Motorcyclist Campers Toyhauler Sleeps 2 In A King Bed (item 140194327246 end time Jan-08-08 16:37:22 PST)

[Metal Twister]

Originally Posted by KOWBOY

Reckon there's a lotta different ways to skin a cat.


eBay Motors: Motorcyclist Campers Toyhauler Sleeps 2 In A King Bed (item 140194327246 end time Jan-08-08 16:37:22 PST)

AINT THAT A FACT!!! Cool idea to get you and the kids out of the weather though.

[KOWBOY]

Originally Posted by Metal Twister

Cool idea to get you and the kids ...

Ain't mine.

Just took me a break from surfin' porn yesterday and found it surfin' Ebay.

I'm goin' the more traditional route and gettin' geared up to pimp out the M101 cdn trailer I just bought from Nolen.

[LUVMY804EVR]

Cool to see someone thinking outside the box. I would love to see what you come up with. Great idea but unfortunately probably a tough market. Even though I have one there are not too many families hauling a couple bikes camping. Most have either a truck or a large toy hauler. If you do it you will need to make it small enough to be something not already on the market and also be able to get into tight and rough forest roads.
I usually don't ever camp without the bike and like to get up high away from other people. Unfortunately the family is growing and I have been having to leave the 80 at home and borrow the dads Duramax more and more lately.
Here are some things I would look for even though some may not exactly fit to what you are looking at doing (expedition style) but are items that I feel are necessary. This is a one week + trip in mind:
1. Quick set up time. I don't want to go on a trip and spend a lot of time on setup and tear down.
2. Need to be under 15'
3. possibly under 7' high to fit into a garage. You mentioned airbags, so design it to lower to fit into garage and store as well as lower at the camp site to make more stable.
4. Must be high off the ground. Similar to the BAJA trailers.
5. Must be light
6. Hard side hybrid would be preferable w/ swing out bed on side rear or front. I like this over the tent due to long set up times. Disadvantage = weight
7. Fixed toilet w/ removable cartridge to keep the wife happy and yet stay small and light.
8. water tank under for small shower for whatever needed. Outside shower ok. If you ride hard for 90 miles + at times like I do this is a must on long trips. Gray water under would also be nice to catch water.
9. outside access for gear, spare parts, tools, fuel. If you have an awning need retractable lines for sweaty or wet gear.
10. generator, solar panels. For general use or recharging toys. GPS, MP3, laptop, lights.
11. stove, small sink and 3 way frig for those without one in the truck. Outside access possibly good if needed for room.
12. batteries and propane. Keep as much as possible under near axle area. Even though low it will provide a low center of gravity.
13. incorporate a small outside slide out or fold down work bench
14. Make the bikes easy to get to without unhooking from the truck. For exploring the trail quicker when looking for a spot. This is very important.
I'm working on mounting a rail on the front of the popup for the bike after all these years hauling it off the back of the 80. Seems like this is the ideal location. With a 250lb+ bike riding off the back of the trailer it would be scary.
Fun finder is getting close but still too big. Maybe this will give ideas......

[Metal Twister]

Wow Mike, thanks for the reply! It sounds like you gave this some thought. Here is So. Cal. the desert scene as well as Baja is a big draw. its so crowded here people are tring to find ways to get further out to avoid the camping crowds. With the closures of public lands that are accessable by most anyone, the extreme market is starting to open. I have a commitment for two trailers to start with. I think that we can promote and build the market. At worst case we will have fun trying.

I can say that all the things you suggested are doable and in the works. The Hitch will be removable for the garage storage problem. Roof rack will be removable if desired, freeing up more garage door clearence if an issue. Im thinking porta potty with its own holding tank instead of the perment toilet. Shower and hot water along with everything else is a must. and the air bags can be deflated abit for a little more squat. We are desigining some new Trailing arms as we speak, we dont want any patent issues here. LOL thanks for the input. It is well taken. Your project looks fun also, Im sure you will have a blast with it.

[Metal Twister]

We are going to make use of trailing arms with air bags. The question is, should we develope sway bars for these trailers? has anybody played with sway bars on the trailers? Maybe a quick disconnect for the offroad portion of travel? looks like we are shooting for 8 to 10" of travel.

[matt 105]

Sway bar, you say?

[Metal Twister]

Do you find the bars to be of any help? Did you ever pull the trailer with out the bars? If so, what was the difference in in towing? Just courious on how much weight you normally carry? Thanks for the input.

[matt 105]

Gday
Yes, I pulled that trailer for about 8 years and about 35000km without a swaybar.
I built that trailer for traveling around Australia, carrying a lot of tools(Im a diesel mechanic) and anything else my wife and I might need for a year on the road. - so it weighed around 1500kg. Now, just when we go away for a week , or a week end, it can weigh weigh around 1000kg depending what we take(welders, spares, water etc).
It was also quite high, to match my 80 and first 100srs, so it used to lean a bit on corners. This was fine, it just looked disconcerting in the mirrors, and occasionaly you could feel it pulling on the car.
So, one day, I mounted up the front sway bar off the 80srs(28mm from memory) using some shock absorber pins. This caused a lot less roll in corners, and it returns to neutral much quicker, too.
The thing is....those springs and shocks are off a 75srs Landcruiser ute rear(like in my avi.) and ofcourse the ute has 4 springs to resist body roll, not 2.
The reduced articulation seems to be outweighed by the less roll,or sway on rough tracks.
The ol' trailer has been slowly getting a birthday recently and Ive lowered it 2" last year.I think there is more about it in the "mini-truck conversion to trailer thread"(search for "mini truck" in trailers if you want)
Ive got a pair of air-bags in the shed, waiting to go in on a rainy day, when I change to 5 stud hubs. but that is more to control ride height empty to heavy.
Many highway trucks here are airbag, and they use very thick swaybars, whereas the same truck can be specd with leaves and has no swaybars.
Hope this helps a little - any other questions, ask away.

Cheers

Matt

[matt 105]

Heres another 1 for free, having the shocks behind the axle like that means that mud and sand, etc goes up under the stone shield - and stays there for longer than youd think. I think people put the shocks behind the axle like that because it looks right, and looks like they will be protected, but I find - after about 50000km - that I am more likely to tow forwards along a track, where it follows the car, and reverse it into rough scrub!
Maybe, next, Ill put in another crossmember and mount them towards the center - 40srs style.
Oh, and I wouldnt worry too much about the quick disconect, my self.

Cheers

Matt

[Metal Twister]

Thanks Matt, Its all very helpful info. Im leaning towards airbags, laydown shocks, and a pinned swaybar. This should be able to handel the weight of two bikes a roof tent and all gear on the road nicely. Then free up the suspension to travel when off of the asphalt. I am building a mock up trailer to put through the paces before we go full tilt on the suspension. Thanks again for the input. We are planning on a fully loaded trailer to use as a pit trailer in Baja. Boston Mangler is going to need some additional help down there next year. LOL Are you using the hydraulic brakes as surge brakes?

[Boston Mangler]

Thanks For The Info Matt!

I would be willing to even swap you one of these trailers, i will pay for it, tax, title and insurance included in exchange for your 105

Cmon now, you know its a good deal!

Thanks for causing me to drool on my keyboard!

[matt 105]

Gday
Yes, my override or surge brakes are hydraulic - in the 1st pic I posted, you can just make out a Hilux spinle and stone guard. I pressed then welded the spindes onto an axle I turned to suit, as it uses Hilux front disks/calipers, wheel bearings, seals, F/W hubs etc. The brakes are excellent, and the hitch incorperates a park brake.
May I strongly recomend you contact "Track" trailers in Melbourne, Australia(Google them)
They do an assimetric link suspension for superiour self steering, and in some of there military versions they use airbags,(and have done for many years). and in their cheeper models, coils(still with 10" of travel). Unfortunatly their website is not as good now as it once was, but they should be happy to e-mail you something.

I visited their factory a few years ago when I was thinking of building another trailer and can not recomend them and their advice highly enough!!!!!!!!

Regards

Matt

[matt 105]

Not sure how "prototype" you intend to go with the suspension, but set ups similar to this are easily availible at any trailer supply shop, here - ready to weld on.
I would turn the shocks 90', tho, across the chassis.
And definatly add a sway bar.

Cheers

Matt

[matt 105]

Another piece of advice......"build it... and they will come!"
I built mine on the cheep of course(thats why its Landcruiser and Hilux and leaf springs - from work), but there is enough of a market, even in Australia, to support several "premium" camper trailer (tent trailer) manufacturers whose trailers cost half what a diesel 200srs costs.

I say..."go all out"

Regards

Matt

[matt 105]

Thinking about this has just reminded me of something.
Why is everyone so fasinated with airbags these days?
I worked on road trains for a while, and they had enough problems with their airbags, and valves, and they only ran on-road.
The next trailer I build will use adjustable coil-overs.
If you make a batch of premium trailers, and someone rips an airline out, - word will get around.
In Australia, when the 80srs came out with coils, it took a lot of people a long time to believe that they were going to be as tough, and handle the weight that they used to put in their leaf sprung 60srs.
To me, using airbags seems to be building in a weakness - real or imagined, and greater complexity just for the sake of it.
And yes, I do have a compressor.
Theres something to think about.
Regards

Matt

[Metal Twister]

Like all things it takes a bit of education, and proving how good things are. The air bags have proven their worth and durability in Baja racing for years now. One of our offroad car competitors uses the bags on their cars with great success. If you have onboard air, it is a light weight, inexpensive,and a trail tough approach. Not to mention the adjustability and ride height options. Maybe that is another reason that sway bars would be of some help. Just in case of a blow out Im guessing you could drive with just the swaybars for a while? A spare set is easy to carry along if it is an issue.

[Boston Mangler]

Another idea, is maybe a "Lock Out" or something similar for when you are on the freeway and such to eliminate, or at least minimize sway!

My .02

[Metal Twister]

Originally Posted by Boston Mangler

Another idea, is maybe a "Lock Out" or something similar for when you are on the freeway and such to eliminate, or at least minimize sway!

My .02

Im guessing you mean a turn type disconnect for a tortion bar? might get kinda a pricey?