why no electric brakes?

[lx450landcruiser]

so when people are building there trailers and buying the axles for them why dont you get electric brakes? i imagine when these trailers are loaded they will weigh well over 1000 pounds. thants alot of weight to be slowing down on a steep grade or slowing down at high speeds as well. just curious.

[brownbear]

good idea.

But trailers around 1k don't usually need brakes. Wouldn't hurt though.

I guess it comes down to $$ when doing the build. The brakes on a M101 Cnd might be able to be rigged to brake with inertia. I not sure though.

[kim]

Originally Posted by lx450landcruiser

so when people are building there trailers and buying the axles for them why dont you get electric brakes? i imagine when these trailers are loaded they will weigh well over 1000 pounds. thants alot of weight to be slowing down on a steep grade or slowing down at high speeds as well. just curious.

IMO, there is no need for trailer brakes with that little weight. Over 2000 lbs, perhaps.

[archtimb]

It is very little cost to put on axles with the mounting plate for brakes. You can always add them after your trailer pushes a little on loose stuff and increases your pucker factor!



Mitch

[REZARF]

Originally Posted by archtimb

It is very little cost to put on axles with the mounting plate for brakes. You can always add them after your trailer pushes a little on loose stuff and increases your pucker factor!



Mitch

x2 I can add them later for the same price so no big deal for now.

[gavman]

I have brakes happening on my M101 and even though the weight may be on the lighter side I'm sure i will be glad i have them.
Picture going over a ledge in a short wheelbase with your trailer tongue higher than your roof-line and the 1000 pound trailer pushing at the same time???
I have been pulling trailers for many years now and can't remember how many times they have saved me, although with heavier trailers and not offeroad of course.

[RHINO]

i actually went through this with mine,,,, during a heavy loaded almost maiden voyage after building it. after that w/e i realized i need to be waaay over 1k lbs for the brakes to be useful on the road w/o locking up on the dirt. i have since taken the brakes and contoller off and sold them for other more useful parts.

[archtimb]

It is not hard for a military sized trailer to be well over 1k considering the base weight of the trailer itself. All I am saying is it costs next to nothing to put the flange for brakes on initially. Everyone's use will vary, but after pulling trailers for 34 years, I would like to be able to have them, no matter how small the trailer. I have been pulling a construction trailer of about 4k, with a truck weighing 8k, on a slope and been pushed around corners on gravel. I can see how even a small trailer could push a tow vehicle in loose material. Scary thought on a shelf road!

Mitch

[John E Davies]

The problem is NOT electric brakes, its cr@ppy brake controllers. The vast majority of the stuff on the market is pretty much unusable on rough terrain. The purely inertial units from a few years back are terrible - when you go into a dip they lock the brakes, or when the grade changes the sensitivity goes out of whack. The built-in time delay makes emergency braking very dicey.

I have big 10 inch brakes on my little bitty trailer. Normally I'm only sending 1.2 amps back there, but sometimes when I really load it down I dial up the current.

I use a Jordan Ultima controller which is connected mechanically to the brake pedal via a flex cable. It is _fully_ proportional and foolproof. Touch the pedal lightly and all you get is a trickle of current to the trailer, and slam on the pedal and you get full emergency braking without any delay. It works on rough forest roads and steep trail descents equally well. It works equally well on a 500 pound utility trailer or a 7000 pound travel trailer.

I recently installed an "intelligent" Tekonsha P3 electronic controller on my RAV4 for street use and it actually works pretty well, but it wouldn't be as good a choice off road as the Jordan.

Those of you claiming that you don't need trailer brakes just haven't used the right setup yet. Once you try a Jordan you will never go back.

http://www.bestbrakecontroller.com/

John Davies
Spokane WA

[RHINO]

i'm not claiming to not need trailer brakes or that they dont work, but my experience was unfavorable probly due to a less than stellar controller and a light weight trailer even by small trailer stadards.
a typical w/e outing is prolly under 700 lbs so i'm sure a good controller is mandatory. i have yet to experience any pushing anywhere,, maybe i've just been lucky.

[lx450landcruiser]

Originally Posted by RHINO

i
a typical w/e outing is prolly under 700 lbs so i'm sure a good controller is mandatory. i have yet to experience any pushing anywhere,, maybe i've just been lucky.

I figure my m101 trailer weighs about 700 unloaded, figure the tent water supplies Im well over 1000, has any one done electric brakes on a m101? im not sure i even know how electric brakes work on a normal trailer? I wonder if theres a way to convert the parking brake on the m101?

[RHINO]

Originally Posted by lx450landcruiser

I figure my m101 trailer weighs about 700 unloaded, figure the tent water supplies Im well over 1000

mines around 200 empty, i can flip it upside down to work on it by myself. and that in part is why my personal take on brakes may vary a bit from the average.

[John E Davies]

Originally Posted by lx450landcruiser

I figure my m101 trailer weighs about 700 unloaded, figure the tent water supplies Im well over 1000, has any one done electric brakes on a m101? im not sure i even know how electric brakes work on a normal trailer? I wonder if theres a way to convert the parking brake on the m101?

My trailer, loaded with camping gear and bicycles, typically weighs 750 to 800 pounds - if instead, I throw a half yard of gravel in it that raises it to about 2500 pounds. I even run a little brake power when there is no load, and the trailer is only 350 pounds "dry".

An 80 with armor and big tires doesn't stop so good. IMHO it's stupid to make things worse by asking the truck's brakes to also stop a trailer, no matter what the weight.

You need an electro-magnet type brake design to work with a brake controller. I don't see any way to modify a lever type parking brake.... though Dexter does make electric brakes with a parking brake function. Each brake uses a movable cam under one shoe that can accept an external lever on the inside of the backing plate.

http://www.championtrailers.com/brkart.html

John Davies
Spokane WA

[KY854RUN]

If you are looking for a 1/4 ton trailer with road brakes? Then look for the M416A1. It came with hydraulic surge brakes. These brakes would automatically adjust for the load being carried. The only pain was that you had to pin the actuator when backing up.

[spressomon]

Had the electric brake option added to my AT Horizon. No regrets. After a bit more than a year and several thousand miles of off-road and many more than that on-road I would never pull a trailer like this one without 'em. FYI: Loaded I am at ~ 2,000 lbs.

[archtimb]

John E,

Thanks for posting up that brake controller. I was not aware of that one. It sounds really good!

A 200# trailer I might not install breaks either! I thought we were talking about m101/m416 size and weight. The Adventure Trailers start at about the same weight as the military ones. Add in the sideboxes on a Horizon, RTT, water tank, fuel cans, propane and the gear for a family or expedition, then you begin to see the need for extra braking power in a Land Cruiser. Our factory systems are already taxed with our bull bars, rear bumpers, armor, bigger tires, rear drawers, winches, on board air...I'll stop now, but it all adds up!

Mitch

[gavman]

[kim]

But, I'm not a Baptist.

Excellent conversation here about the advantages of trailer brakes. I've been considering it for my M101A1 but I hadn't much considered them for my M101.

[lx450landcruiser]

so is this something i can modify the stock m101 axle with or would it be easier to buy a new axle with the brakes and brackets on there?

[gavman]

You can bolt directly to the M101 axle with no mods and standard 6 bolt trailer hubs match your cruiser.
All in all a very simple job to do

[BC_FJC]

I know I don't need to have brakes on my trailer but I have enjoyed having them. Get a good brake controller and you will never go back...

When I'm going over obsticals I like to apply the brake manualy and let the trailer slide down slowly under my control and on lose road conditions its nice to have the trailer help with the braking and stay inline with the truck even if you are braking around a corner.

Again I don't think they are required but they are a nice option when setup properly

[alia176]

It may be easier to simply purchase the proper width axle with built in Electric brake hardware.

I like that Jordan unit as well. Might have to put it in.

[gavman]

Originally Posted by alia176

It may be easier to simply purchase the proper width axle with built in Electric brake hardware.

I like that Jordan unit as well. Might have to put it in.

Not if you own the m101, as the axle is already set up to bolt on electric brake hubs.
That's what i did.

[Brentbba]

In the Republik of Kalifornia, all trailers over 1000 lbs as I recall are required by law to have trailer brakes. It might be 1500 lbs, but pretty sure it's 1000 lbs.

You may want to look into your own state regs.

Better safe than sorry. Put trailer brakes on. As far as brake controllers go, lots of people on this board and elsewhere like their Prodigy brake controller.

For what it's worth, I tow a 3500 lb trailer for my scout troop, with trailer brakes and a Prodigy controller in the cruiser!

[Grim Reaper]

Originally Posted by John E Davies

The problem is NOT electric brakes, its cr@ppy brake controllers. The vast majority of the stuff on the market is pretty much unusable on rough terrain. The purely inertial units from a few years back are terrible - when you go into a dip they lock the brakes, or when the grade changes the sensitivity goes out of whack. The built-in time delay makes emergency braking very dicey.

I have big 10 inch brakes on my little bitty trailer. Normally I'm only sending 1.2 amps back there, but sometimes when I really load it down I dial up the current.

I use a Jordan Ultima controller which is connected mechanically to the brake pedal via a flex cable. It is _fully_ proportional and foolproof. Touch the pedal lightly and all you get is a trickle of current to the trailer, and slam on the pedal and you get full emergency braking without any delay. It works on rough forest roads and steep trail descents equally well. It works equally well on a 500 pound utility trailer or a 7000 pound travel trailer.

I recently installed an "intelligent" Tekonsha P3 electronic controller on my RAV4 for street use and it actually works pretty well, but it wouldn't be as good a choice off road as the Jordan.

Those of you claiming that you don't need trailer brakes just haven't used the right setup yet. Once you try a Jordan you will never go back.

http://www.bestbrakecontroller.com/

John Davies
Spokane WA

Proactive controllers Mimic the brake application of the tow rig exactly with no delay:

Kelsey Hayes and Jordan Ultima.

Reactive is anything that uses time delays inertia sensors or anything to guess or measure vehicle change in momentum of the tow vehicle to make the decision about how much brakes to apply : all the other Junk.

I run a old style Kelsey on my Tow rig. Once set up it works great. The only bummer is the coarse power adjustment is a big resistor pack under the hood. My next controller will be the Jordan so that I don't have to tap into a brake line.

[lx450landcruiser]

Originally Posted by gavman

Not if you own the m101, as the axle is already set up to bolt on electric brake hubs.
That's what i did.

where did you buy from? do you remeber excatly what you purchased?

thanks any info on this would be great

mike

[gavman]

Originally Posted by lx450landcruiser

where did you buy from? do you remeber excatly what you purchased?

thanks any info on this would be great

mike

Without looking i think they are Dexter brand and the wheel-bearings are standard for 3500# axles.
I got them from a trailer builder here in Richmond BC and he knew exactly what i needed so i didn't look too closely at them.
I will look at them tomorrow if needed and confirm the brand and part #'s if it's there

[lx450landcruiser]

any update?