Trailer Build Started.....

Degnol · 09-26-07, 09:33 AM

I have a question for Drew. How did you determine where to put the axle, like fore and aft? I remember you did quite a bit of mocking, but where did it end up. Sorry if it has been covered in your thread

Currently I have the spring pins 40" from the rear and 35" from the front. I figure by the time I add the tongue, it will have a little tongue weight and not be perfectly balanced. As far as tongue weight when done, I can adjust that by loading.

Ed

REZARF · 09-26-07, 10:02 AM

ED-

Seriously, I had to guess based on what i know... which isn't much. You're right you want tongue weight up front, in theory you want 60% of the weight in front of the axle and 40% behind it. So, I put the axle in the middle of my main chassis and like you, I will load it accordingly. You will want 10% of the gross trailer weight as tongue weight in a perfect world.

Having the weight too far rearward would be worse than too far forward. So I baised mine a bit to the rear. Basically, I copied a m416 measurement... but I (and you) can always cut and remount it if you get WAY off, but I bet you are fine. FWIW, the m416 and others used the box as a reference, 60% of the box is in front of the axle.

Hope it helps, I see you figured out the springs, they look awesome man!

Keep it up-

Drew

Degnol · 09-26-07, 10:08 AM

BTW, those are FJ40 springs I had from a spring swap. I had sent the shortest leaf and the third leaf to HayStax, IIRC. I am just using 4 leafs. From shortest to longest #2, 4, 5 and 6. Sanded/ground them down to clean metal, metal-prepped them and gave them 2 coats of POR 15.

Ed

KY854RUN · 09-26-07, 11:13 AM

Ed,

This site explains what you are looking for.

http://www.championtrailers.com/UTIL...AILER_KITS.HTM

Degnol · 09-26-07, 03:00 PM

Here is the problem with cruiser springs.....................

They are quite a bit offset with reference to the spring pin. Most trailer springs are centered in the spring pack. If I strictly follow the 60/40, the shackle hangers would be at the very rear of my frame...almost. I'm going to end up about 55/45 and that is pushing them back....way back.
I hate to reverse the springs because the military wrap should be on the spring hanger, not the shackle. And I'm not particularly wild about redrilling the spring pin hole, either. I think I will try it this way and if I have problems, I'll regroup, rethink, regrind and reweld.

Ed

RHINO · 09-26-07, 04:31 PM

i'll bet you can score some centered pin front springs for almost nothing if you look or ask, i know you'd like to use what ya got but maybe it'll be a better route?
and for the record i put my axle right in the middle of the trailers box, assuming i will put at least a loaded cooler on the 4ft tongue. i have loaded it with all manner of things and it tracks right behind me all the time, so, for once it looks like i did something right.

Degnol · 09-26-07, 06:49 PM

Well, I have decided to run what I brung and make any mods from there. Like you said, loading is the key. Here are some pics of my "day off" progress

I think I'll gusset the spring hangers................do you think it is necessary?

Ed

REZARF · 09-26-07, 09:28 PM

It looks like you have .25" material, I think the loads that this thing will see won't justify gussets, but then again, there is a "peace of mind" factor to consider.

Looking good bud!

Arya Ebrahimi · 09-26-07, 11:39 PM

I would gusset it simply because the contact area is only 1" wide which doesn't have much leverage over the spring hangers. A few simple triangles tieing the spring hanger to the inside of the C-channel would be more than enough to transfer the loads properly IMO.

usmcruiser · 09-27-07, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Ebrahimi

I would gusset it simply because the contact area is only 1" wide which doesn't have much leverage over the spring hangers. A few simple triangles tieing the spring hanger to the inside of the C-channel would be more than enough to transfer the loads properly IMO.

x2 since you boxed the frame around the hangers it only makes since to run a couple of gussets.

"If anything is worth doing. It's worth over doing!"

REZARF · 09-27-07, 10:58 AM

Yeah, a few triangles would help, and I do think now is the time to do it if it going to happen. I just think you have to always be thinking light too, but these guys are right, that place will see high loads of stress.

Looking great man!

Deny · 09-28-07, 03:46 PM

If you want to center the axles on the springs, you could always weld in longer spring perches, then drill the centering bolt hole far off center to line it up better. Could probably move the axle an inch or two over, I know I have an inch on my cruiser with no problems.
Cheers,
Deny

Degnol · 09-30-07, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REZARF

Yeah, a few triangles would help, and I do think now is the time to do it if it going to happen. I just think you have to always be thinking light too, but these guys are right, that place will see high loads of stress.

Looking great man!

I had on hand some 3/16 flat stock and my trusty Chinamaneese band saw so here are my gussets. Easy to do for a little piece of mind.

Ed

uplandhawaii · 09-30-07, 07:49 PM

Gussets look good!

Degnol · 09-30-07, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uplandhawaii

Gussets look good!

Thanks!, I do not plan on closing up the ends......yet.

Ed

REZARF · 09-30-07, 09:09 PM

Now that is easy peace of mind.

Rezarf <><

J-man · 10-02-07, 02:39 PM

degnol, where did you find those rear spring hangers/shakle combo. I think its just what i need for the rear of my trailer.

Also, how wide is the spring / bushing outside to outside? Wondering if it'll work for my tacoma leafs?

Degnol · 10-02-07, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-man

degnol, where did you find those rear spring hangers/shakle combo. I think its just what i need for the rear of my trailer.

Also, how wide is the spring / bushing outside to outside? Wondering if it'll work for my tacoma leafs?

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...902d563537a36e

Those are FJ40 springs, 2.75" wide plus bushings. I got the spring hangers and the shackle hangers from Dan. The shackle hangers came with bushings.
Great guy to deal with. I also like the taper on both. He makes the right width for Tacos and minis, too.

Ed

J-man · 10-03-07, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Degnol

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/...902d563537a36e

Those are FJ40 springs, 2.75" wide plus bushings. I got the spring hangers and the shackle hangers from Dan. The shackle hangers came with bushings.
Great guy to deal with. I also like the taper on both. He makes the right width for Tacos and minis, too.

Ed

ahh, cool. I ordered mine from there just before you replied. Glad they worked out. Are those the 2.5" shakles, or the 4" ones? I asked for the 2.5" - should be sufficient.

Degnol · 10-03-07, 01:28 PM

I dunno, they are OEM length, but with only 4 leafs, it seems to flex a lot. I have longer shackles if I need them.

Ruff Stuff is a great place to do business with.

Ed

Degnol · 10-13-07, 03:15 PM

I added two crossmembers and the receiver/tongue. Later I'll add a middle crossmember to mount shocks on and triangulate the tongue support, then on to the box.

Ed

REZARF · 10-13-07, 05:22 PM

LOOKING GOOD!

Keep it up man!

Rezarf <><

grant5127 · 10-18-07, 09:10 PM

Lookn good Ed!... nice neighborhood you got there, quite, neat and peaceful appearance... sure your not making too much noise with all that grinding, banging and fabrication work going on there

.....

REZARF · 10-18-07, 09:28 PM

Ed, you mind explaining the vehicle in the background of the third pic?

Your suspect buddy!

Degnol · 10-19-07, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant5127

Lookn good Ed!... nice neighborhood you got there, quite, neat and peaceful appearance... sure your not making too much noise with all that grinding, banging and fabrication work going on there

.....

Well, last fall when I got the new motor in and fired it up with the open headers, I did get a call from my 83 year old neighbor. He's an old curmudgeon, one half a Hatfield/McCoy kinda deal amd I'm friends with the other family

Quote:

Originally Posted by REZARF

Ed, you mind explaining the vehicle in the background of the third pic?

Your suspect buddy!

That is the son's Cherokee. Commuter car while he finishes up whatever he is finishing up, school-wise. Iron Duke with a 5 speed....should get 32 mpg, but he says the shift ligh is "set way too low"

Ed

09-26-07, 09:33 AM	#1
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,383	Trailer Build Started..... I have a question for Drew. How did you determine where to put the axle, like fore and aft? I remember you did quite a bit of mocking, but where did it end up. Sorry if it has been covered in your thread Currently I have the spring pins 40" from the rear and 35" from the front. I figure by the time I add the tongue, it will have a little tongue weight and not be perfectly balanced. As far as tongue weight when done, I can adjust that by loading. Ed Attached Images __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

09-26-07, 10:08 AM	#3
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,383	BTW, those are FJ40 springs I had from a spring swap. I had sent the shortest leaf and the third leaf to HayStax, IIRC. I am just using 4 leafs. From shortest to longest #2, 4, 5 and 6. Sanded/ground them down to clean metal, metal-prepped them and gave them 2 coats of POR 15. Ed __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

09-26-07, 11:13 AM	#4
KY854RUN IH8MUD Regular Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northern Arizona TLCA# 3200 Posts: 336	Ed, This site explains what you are looking for. http://www.championtrailers.com/UTIL...AILER_KITS.HTM __________________ Kevin `85 4Runner - work in progress M416 Trailer - ukn year, rebuilt July 2007, build thread `68 FJ40 - planning stages of a build Green Country Cruisers - member Wish List - to long to post

09-26-07, 03:00 PM	#5
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,383	Here is the problem with cruiser springs..................... They are quite a bit offset with reference to the spring pin. Most trailer springs are centered in the spring pack. If I strictly follow the 60/40, the shackle hangers would be at the very rear of my frame...almost. I'm going to end up about 55/45 and that is pushing them back....way back. I hate to reverse the springs because the military wrap should be on the spring hanger, not the shackle. And I'm not particularly wild about redrilling the spring pin hole, either. I think I will try it this way and if I have problems, I'll regroup, rethink, regrind and reweld. Ed __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

09-26-07, 04:31 PM	#6
RHINO IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: valley of the sunstroke, AZ Posts: 2,790	i'll bet you can score some centered pin front springs for almost nothing if you look or ask, i know you'd like to use what ya got but maybe it'll be a better route? and for the record i put my axle right in the middle of the trailers box, assuming i will put at least a loaded cooler on the 4ft tongue. i have loaded it with all manner of things and it tracks right behind me all the time, so, for once it looks like i did something right. __________________ 75 BDJ55 soy cruiser 01 TACO got salsa ?

09-26-07, 10:02 AM	#2
REZARF IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Louisville, CO TLCA# 13041 Posts: 2,806	ED- Seriously, I had to guess based on what i know... which isn't much. You're right you want tongue weight up front, in theory you want 60% of the weight in front of the axle and 40% behind it. So, I put the axle in the middle of my main chassis and like you, I will load it accordingly. You will want 10% of the gross trailer weight as tongue weight in a perfect world. Having the weight too far rearward would be worse than too far forward. So I baised mine a bit to the rear. Basically, I copied a m416 measurement... but I (and you) can always cut and remount it if you get WAY off, but I bet you are fine. FWIW, the m416 and others used the box as a reference, 60% of the box is in front of the axle. Hope it helps, I see you figured out the springs, they look awesome man! Keep it up- Drew __________________ Drew F. Rising Sun 4x4 Club 76 FJ40, 85 fj60 Engine and Ignition, 35" MTR's, Warn 8074, 4" of lift TPI, snorkeled, racked, Mini-truck P/S... and sometimes running. Friends don't let friends drive Thornbirds... My camping trailer build up thread.

09-26-07, 06:49 PM	#7
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,383	Well, I have decided to run what I brung and make any mods from there. Like you said, loading is the key. Here are some pics of my "day off" progress I think I'll gusset the spring hangers................do you think it is necessary? Ed Attached Images __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

09-26-07, 09:28 PM	#8
REZARF IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Louisville, CO TLCA# 13041 Posts: 2,806	It looks like you have .25" material, I think the loads that this thing will see won't justify gussets, but then again, there is a "peace of mind" factor to consider. Looking good bud! __________________ Drew F. Rising Sun 4x4 Club 76 FJ40, 85 fj60 Engine and Ignition, 35" MTR's, Warn 8074, 4" of lift TPI, snorkeled, racked, Mini-truck P/S... and sometimes running. Friends don't let friends drive Thornbirds... My camping trailer build up thread.

09-26-07, 11:39 PM	#9
Arya Ebrahimi Something clever Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Blacksburg, VA Posts: 2,429	I would gusset it simply because the contact area is only 1" wide which doesn't have much leverage over the spring hangers. A few simple triangles tieing the spring hanger to the inside of the C-channel would be more than enough to transfer the loads properly IMO. __________________ HOKIES UNITED Arya Ebrahimi '94 FZJ80 200k miles, locked, 285 Revo's, ARB Bullbar, Hella 4000's, homemade drawers My mini-truck buildup thread...updated 9/10 Mini-truck's first trip!! With PICS! 11/10

09-27-07, 10:58 AM	#11
REZARF IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Louisville, CO TLCA# 13041 Posts: 2,806	Yeah, a few triangles would help, and I do think now is the time to do it if it going to happen. I just think you have to always be thinking light too, but these guys are right, that place will see high loads of stress. Looking great man! __________________ Drew F. Rising Sun 4x4 Club 76 FJ40, 85 fj60 Engine and Ignition, 35" MTR's, Warn 8074, 4" of lift TPI, snorkeled, racked, Mini-truck P/S... and sometimes running. Friends don't let friends drive Thornbirds... My camping trailer build up thread.

09-28-07, 03:46 PM	#12
Deny IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Fort St John, BC TLCA# 11568 Posts: 1,296	If you want to center the axles on the springs, you could always weld in longer spring perches, then drill the centering bolt hole far off center to line it up better. Could probably move the axle an inch or two over, I know I have an inch on my cruiser with no problems. Cheers, Deny __________________ Diesels Rule 81 BJ42 Check out my endless fix up progress at http://forum.ih8mud.com/ca-bc-peace-canyon-toyota-swamp-donkeys/152995-bj42-winter-fix-up.html

09-30-07, 07:49 PM	#14
uplandhawaii IH8MUD Rookie Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Big Island Hawaii Posts: 14	Gussets look good!

09-30-07, 09:09 PM	#16
REZARF IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Louisville, CO TLCA# 13041 Posts: 2,806	Now that is easy peace of mind. Rezarf <>< __________________ Drew F. Rising Sun 4x4 Club 76 FJ40, 85 fj60 Engine and Ignition, 35" MTR's, Warn 8074, 4" of lift TPI, snorkeled, racked, Mini-truck P/S... and sometimes running. Friends don't let friends drive Thornbirds... My camping trailer build up thread.

10-02-07, 02:39 PM	#17
J-man IH8MUD Junior Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: West Los Angeles Posts: 124	degnol, where did you find those rear spring hangers/shakle combo. I think its just what i need for the rear of my trailer. Also, how wide is the spring / bushing outside to outside? Wondering if it'll work for my tacoma leafs? __________________ 2003 Land Cruiser v8 4x4 2000 4Runner v6 5spd 4x4 - Turbo'd and Baja ready... 1999 4Runner v6 5spd 4x4 1998 4Runner v6 5spd 4x4 factory locker 1997 4Runner v6 Auto 4x4 All have Saw's/OME combo lifts & custom roof racks My Baja Trailer Build: http://forum.ih8mud.com/trailer-tech/179520-my-baja-trailer-build.html

10-03-07, 01:28 PM	#20
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,383	I dunno, they are OEM length, but with only 4 leafs, it seems to flex a lot. I have longer shackles if I need them. Ruff Stuff is a great place to do business with. Ed __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

10-13-07, 03:15 PM	#21
Degnol Noaccount Webwheeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansastitty TLCA# 14529 Posts: 6,383	I added two crossmembers and the receiver/tongue. Later I'll add a middle crossmember to mount shocks on and triangulate the tongue support, then on to the box. Ed Attached Images __________________ There is nothing so depraved as a man in the depths of an ether binge '66FJ40, Fresh 2F, H42/Orion(By Poser...LCR4WD), ARB Front/rear(By Poser...LCR4WD), MetalTech Cage installed by Poser, Screw-ups fixed(by Poser) 4WDB Corvette Master, Mini Truck PS, 3.5" Lift, Warn 8274, 33s on stockers

10-13-07, 05:22 PM	#22
REZARF IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Louisville, CO TLCA# 13041 Posts: 2,806	LOOKING GOOD! Keep it up man! Rezarf <>< __________________ Drew F. Rising Sun 4x4 Club 76 FJ40, 85 fj60 Engine and Ignition, 35" MTR's, Warn 8074, 4" of lift TPI, snorkeled, racked, Mini-truck P/S... and sometimes running. Friends don't let friends drive Thornbirds... My camping trailer build up thread.

10-18-07, 09:10 PM	#23
grant5127 IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Marcos,TEXAS Posts: 2,847	Lookn good Ed!... nice neighborhood you got there, quite, neat and peaceful appearance... sure your not making too much noise with all that grinding, banging and fabrication work going on there..... __________________ For Sale: Parachute. Only used once, never opened, small stain.

10-18-07, 09:28 PM	#24
REZARF IH8MUD Lifer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Louisville, CO TLCA# 13041 Posts: 2,806	Ed, you mind explaining the vehicle in the background of the third pic? Your suspect buddy! __________________ Drew F. Rising Sun 4x4 Club 76 FJ40, 85 fj60 Engine and Ignition, 35" MTR's, Warn 8074, 4" of lift TPI, snorkeled, racked, Mini-truck P/S... and sometimes running. Friends don't let friends drive Thornbirds... My camping trailer build up thread.