[VFRMAN]

Looking to pull the trigger on a new Millermatic 211 welder. Anyone have anything good, bad, or ugly to say before decision time? Look pretty similar in price to the Hobart which seems to get good reviews.

Welds up to 3/8" technically. Have a friend with the Spoolmate attachment for welding aluminum so I can use that anytime I want.

eBay has them all for about $965-$985 delivered to my door. I can buy one for $948, with the cart, locally through a friend. Plus tax it's about the same price as online, but with a cart thrown in for free. And I'd rather give money to the local guy anyway.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[KLF]

*subscribed*

[spressomon]

Had a MM175 for a few years and it was a very good welder for the $. Moved up to the MM252 a few months ago and WOW what a difference. Try to get as much welder as you can.

If this is your first welder make sure you budget for the little stuff/not so little stuff like a good helmet, misc set up tools/magnetic angles, hand grinder, wire, gas & bottle, etc.

[VFRMAN]

Originally Posted by spressomon

Had a MM175 for a few years and it was a very good welder for the $. Moved up to the MM252 a few months ago and WOW what a difference. Try to get as much welder as you can.

If this is your first welder make sure you budget for the little stuff/not so little stuff like a good helmet, misc set up tools/magnetic angles, hand grinder, wire, gas & bottle, etc.

"Budget?" What the Hell is that? If I used a budget, I wouldn't even be considering buying a welder. The "Executive Committee" hasn't formally approved funding for this capital project yet, but we meet next week.

As with anything you buy it seems, the "extras" end up costing more than the initial investment.

Will be the first welder I've ever "owned" myself. I spent many a night welding in the back of the manufacturing shop I worked at for years going to college. One of those things I always thought was fun and satisfying, just didn't want to ever have to do for a living.

Still using the trailer I built 10 years ago. Hitch carriers, roof racks, tree stands, fish house heaters, wall straighteners, even the floor in my old 55. Nothing ever came apart so it must have worked.

Now with 4 kids I don't have time to say "Honey, I'm going to run over to Darren's shop and weld some stuff up for a few hours." It's time to have a welder in the garage. I figure with a good chop saw, grinder, sander, and maybe a drill press, I'll be set for most of what I'll ever need to do. For the rest I'll just have to make better plans to hit the shop when time permits to use a break or a lathe.

Not like I'm going to be burning miles of wire every night, but I am concerned about getting a nice coat of black welding dust over everything in my garage. Wondering if I should make up a make shift booth of some kind for the bigger projects to contain the smoke and vent it out through the wall with a good exhaust fan?

A few welds here and there don't concern me, but if it's 20 below zero in January and the doors are all shut, and I have a lot to weld, fresh air will be at a premium. I don't want my garage turning into a Chinese sweat shop, or the obvious health issues with welding in general.

Any good ideas on venting? Thinking just a good size one-way fan through the wall like my A/C unit. Close to the welder. Then set up some welding curtains or something to contain and hopefully move the smoke outdoors.

Thanks for the advice already.

[spressomon]

Ah hah...another like me that never seems to find "budget" containment when it comes to tools. The difference for me between the MM175 and the MM252 isn't so much for its volume, as my projects are relatively small, but the overall control, quality and consistency of the bead. I was amazed how much easier and better/cleaner welding even 1/8"-1/4" thick material is with the MM252! That's not to say you can't get good strong welds with a lighter duty welder...because you can. But there is a difference beyond thinking you are just getting a machine capable of running hours on end without resting .

Well...since you are in the frozen tundra of the north you will not be able to do as I do and just open the garage for ventilation in mid-winter. So yes you will want some type of ventilation. If you are really going at it you're either going to need big CFM to push the fumes out a hole in the wall or sometype of hood system that focuses the fumes into your powered vent. And a simple thick canvas "wall" to keep sparks from attacking whatever you have in your garage will go along way...

FWIW: Even when I weld with ventilation I wear a 3M disposable welding mask to catch some of the particles...

You already know this but you will find numerous welding projects of all kinds after you have it. It took me 20-years of hand wringing to finally make the purchase but wow I can't believe how often I use it!

[fj40charles]

MM 175 is not going to have the quality of arc or the control of the MM251/252 has.

MM 211 is great machine if you need the portability and flexibility of using 120v or 230v.

If portability is not an issue, then I'd look at a Hobart Ironman 230 (very new) or Millermatic 212.
Ironman 250 has more power, but fewer voltage taps and not the quality arc of an Ironman 230. Also, Ironman 210 and 250 is discontinued.

Notice that I didn't mention space/footprint issue since it will be the same because most people will buy or build a cart for their little welders. When it is all said and done, the footprint is about the same IMHO.

Hobart Welders - Products - Wire Feed Welders - IronMan 230

Ironman 230 is rated at 175 amps at 60% duty cycle and will do 250 amps at 30% duty cycle. It has more power than the Millermatic 210/212, but less than the Millermatic 251/252.

The fullsize welders will cost more, but they come with too many benefits IMHO:

1. Better duty cycle and more power (do you want to try spray transfer?). Do you worry about buyer's remorse? You can always turn down the power, but you can turn up what you don't have.
2. More robust and longer mig gun
3. Much better wire feed drive mechanism. Consistent wire feed = stable arc.
4. Ability to run 12" spool (more wire choices and cheaper price for wire)
5. You won't have to buy or build a cart for it and will hold a full size welding cylinder (200+ CF)
6. Your friend will not ask to borrow it. <= This is the most important benefit.

If you need portability, then buy another welder or two at a later time.

[fj40charles]

If you'e going to buy a small sized (portable welder), I'd buy this one.

Hobart Handler 210 and 10 ft spool gun for $899.00

FREE SHIPPING — Hobart Handler® 210 Wire Feed MIG Welder with 10-Ft. Spoolgun | Wirefeed Welders | Northern Tool + Equipment

Best deal out there IMHO.

[fj40charles]

Thread about the Ironman 230. Note the new patent pending wire spool holder. Hobart does not have this spool kit for sale yet, but when they do, I'll buy a few sets for my welders.

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

[VFRMAN]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

MM 175 is not going to have the quality of arc or the control of the MM251/252 has.

MM 211 is great machine if you need the portability and flexibility of using 120v or 230v.

If portability is not an issue, then I'd look at a Hobart Ironman 230 (very new) or Millermatic 212.
Ironman 250 has more power, but fewer voltage taps and not the quality arc of an Ironman 230. Also, Ironman 210 and 250 is discontinued.

Notice that I didn't mention space/footprint issue since it will be the same because most people will buy or build a cart for their little welders. When it is all said and done, the footprint is about the same IMHO.

Hobart Welders - Products - Wire Feed Welders - IronMan 230

Ironman 230 is rated at 175 amps at 60% duty cycle and will do 250 amps at 30% duty cycle. It has more power than the Millermatic 210/212, but less than the Millermatic 251/252.

The fullsize welders will cost more, but they come with too many benefits IMHO:

1. Better duty cycle and more power (do you want to try spray transfer?). Do you worry about buyer's remorse? You can always turn down the power, but you can turn up what you don't have.
2. More robust and longer mig gun
3. Much better wire feed drive mechanism. Consistent wire feed = stable arc.
4. Ability to run 12" spool (more wire choices and cheaper price for wire)
5. You won't have to buy or build a cart for it and will hold a full size welding cylinder (200+ CF)
6. Your friend will not ask to borrow it. <= This is the most important benefit.

If you need portability, then buy another welder or two at a later time.

Thanks Charles. Both of those would be ideal for me, (And thanks BTW for making me think about spending more now. but the price just won't work right now. $2300 and $1500 is more than my "imaginary" budget can take.

Portability really isn't the issue for me. It will likely never leave the garage anyway so both of those would be awesome. I actually like the Hobart self contained package with the wheels better anyway rather than a separate cart. That's perfect.

1/4" is about the biggest I will weld on a regular basis. Usually lighter even, hopefully lots of tubing, but I wanted some cushion to comfortably weld a little bigger.

And keep the whole works under a grand. Thanks for the info. Now more thinking required on my end....................

[VFRMAN]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

If you'e going to buy a small sized (portable welder), I'd buy this one.

Hobart Handler 210 and 10 ft spool gun for $899.00

FREE SHIPPING — Hobart Handler® 210 Wire Feed MIG Welder with 10-Ft. Spoolgun | Wirefeed Welders | Northern Tool + Equipment

Best deal out there IMHO.

Now that Hobart 210 w/the spoolgun for $899 seems like the ticket. Quality vs Millermatic 211? Those would seem to compete, specs-wise correct? I could pick one up at Northern Tool in town. Curious now if they're really comparable, or one better than the other?

Thanks again,

And thanks spressomon. Good insight as well. If it isn't 20 below in the winter, it's mosquito Hell in the summer. My garage stays shut all the time. A/C and heat. To Hell with doors!

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by VFRMAN

Now that Hobart 210 w/the spoolgun for $899 seems like the ticket. Quality vs Millermatic 211? Those would seem to compete, specs-wise correct? I could pick one up at Northern Tool in town. Curious now if they're really comparable, or one better than the other?

Thanks again,

And thanks spressomon. Good insight as well. If it isn't 20 below in the winter, it's mosquito Hell in the summer. My garage stays shut all the time. A/C and heat. To Hell with doors!

You're welcome. Hobart and Miller are both owned by ITW (Illinois Tools Works). Miller is considered their industrial line and Hobart is the Home/Hobby line.

Hobart and Miller both carry the same warranty and many of the parts used internally on their small welders are the same.

The biggest difference will be the all aluminum drive roll mechanism on the Miller. Hobart is made of durable plastic (not sure what kind), but it is durable and has not given users any problems. Miller give your a infinite control for voltage, Hobart give you 7 voltage taps. Voltage taps is generally easier to setup than a n infinite voltage control. Again, not a big deal to me and certainly not a deal breaker.

Miller 211 gives you the 120/230v option which might be useful, but if the welder is going to stay in your garage, then it is an non-issue IMO.

Miller 211 will have the Autoset feature which is supposed to set the welder setting for you. Not a big deal for me.

Specs look pretty much the same. 150 amps at 30% duty cycle and both will max output 210 amps.

Some threads about the welders:
Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders
Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

I've used the Hobart Handler 210 and it is a nice welder. Get some .030 HB-28 and you'll be very happy.

Good place to by some HB-28 mig wire:
Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

[VFRMAN]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

You're welcome. Hobart and Miller are both owned by ITW (Illinois Tools Works). Miller is considered their industrial line and Hobart is the Home/Hobby line.

Hobart and Miller both carry the same warranty and many of the parts used internally on their small welders are the same.

The biggest difference will be the all aluminum drive roll mechanism on the Miller. Hobart is made of durable plastic (not sure what kind), but it is durable and has not given users any problems. Miller give your a infinite control for voltage, Hobart give you 7 voltage taps. Voltage taps is generally easier to setup than a n infinite voltage control. Again, not a big deal to me and certainly not a deal breaker.

Miller 211 gives you the 120/230v option which might be useful, but if the welder is going to stay in your garage, then it is an non-issue IMO.

Miller 211 will have the Autoset feature which is supposed to set the welder setting for you. Not a big deal for me.

Specs look pretty much the same. 150 amps at 30% duty cycle and both will max output 210 amps.

Some threads about the welders:
Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders
Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

I've used the Hobart Handler 210 and it is a nice welder. Get some .030 HB-28 and you'll be very happy.

Good place to by some HB-28 mig wire:
Weld Talk Message Board and Online Forum - Hobart Welders

A welder Forum I have to watch all the time now too???? Great. I'll never get anything done now.

Awesome info Charles. That's great stuff to know.

Is this Chinese wire going to be an issue at all? No expert, but anything once made in Italy, now produced in China, makes you have to think. Just curious. Thanks.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by VFRMAN

A welder Forum I have to watch all the time now too???? Great. I'll never get anything done now.

Awesome info Charles. That's great stuff to know.

Is this Chinese wire going to be an issue at all? No expert, but anything once made in Italy, now produced in China, makes you have to think. Just curious. Thanks.

I've used chinese made wire from HTP and never had any issues with it. Italy made wire are nice too.
I think you'll be fine with the Hobart HB-28 wire. I'm sure Hobart maintains strict quality control unlike some other chinese made wires.

One thing about the Hobart Handler 187/210 welder is they're not very picky about the wire. It will run most wires pretty well.

[VFRMAN]

Looking like the Hobart is the way to go at this stage of my welding life.

Next thing you know, Ferrari's and Ducati's will be coming out of Shanghai.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by VFRMAN

Looking like the Hobart is the way to go at this stage of my welding life.

Next thing you know, Ferrari's and Ducati's will be coming out of Shanghai.

You will not be disappointed with the HH210. Be sure to get some .030 wire for it. I think it will run best with .030 wire. If you're planning on doing lots of 1/4" and thicker steel, get the .035 wire.

Many users say it will do aluminum better than the Millermatic 210 welders . Be sure to post up pics of your projects.

I would not be surprised if the chinese are trying to knock off Ducati motorcycles.

[Trev]

I bought the Miller 211 a few months ago and I really like it. I sometimes use the Auto Set feature when I'm in a hurry, but can usually dial in something better myself. The dual voltage input ability was important for me as was the portability.

[rideglobally]

i got the 211 millermatic and i have not looked back, i am not a welder and i found it easy to use. the machine already paid for itself twice. on my build i am welding a lot of aluminum. just my 2 cents

[lenross1]

I have the millermatic 211 and love it. more than enough power. the autoset is like cheating.

[GDA62/100]

I've had a Hobart Handler 120 (almost 20yrs ago) and now have a HH140. My brother has the 120 and it's still works great. The 140 is even better. I weld mostly light stuff. It does a nice job on autobody sheetmetal. It has a Miller gun on it from the box. It's nice to be able to take along to a buddy's house and plug in to almost any outlet, but 230v is better power.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of them, but the deal on the HH210 with spoolgun is a screamin' deal in my opinion. If I didn't have a tig welder, I'd buy one.
Blue, red, or gray, nice to have any one of them.
Good info at Hobart's site, the weldingweb, Miller Welds site, as well as Lincoln Electric.

[Peluo]

I have an ESAB migmaster 250. Bought it from IOC indiana oxigen. Made in the USA. It has great reviews from a Weldtalk. I think i paid $1700, only was $200 more than MM210 at the time. But it can weld 1/2"

[KLF]

I'm still pretty sold on the MM 211, but I found a slightly older MM 210 for sale locally. Wondering if I should consider it instead.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by KLF

I'm still pretty sold on the MM 211, but I found a slightly older MM 210 for sale locally. Wondering if I should consider it instead.

Do you need a portable welder? If not, MM210 would be a good option. I would not consider MM210 to be old.
My oldest welder I use is a 1992 MM 200.

[KLF]

Thanks, I was hoping you'd reply.

I have no need for it to be portable. I don't think it's "old" but the MM 210 came out in 2005, its been replaced in their product line with the 212/AS, which is a lot more money that I can spend to buy new. This used one is only $900, no bottle though. I believe it's a tapped model, only has 7 voltage settings, not infinite settings like the newer 211 has. Not sure how big of a deal that is. One thing that concerns me is the spec sheet from Miller says the included M-25 gun is suitable for 0.030/0.035 wire. What if I wanna go smaller on the wire, say down to 0.024 for doing sheetmetal work? Do I have to get a different gun?

I'm seeing 211/AS kits on eBay for ~$1,250 delivered, with a cart and spoolgun. The MVP feature is kinda cool, although I'm more interested in the Autoset.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by KLF

Thanks, I was hoping you'd reply.

I have no need for it to be portable. I don't think it's "old" but the MM 210 came out in 2005, its been replaced in their product line with the 212/AS, which is a lot more money that I can spend to buy new. This used one is only $900, no bottle though. I believe it's a tapped model, only has 7 voltage settings, not infinite settings like the newer 211 has. Not sure how big of a deal that is. One thing that concerns me is the spec sheet from Miller says the included M-25 gun is suitable for 0.030/0.035 wire. What if I wanna go smaller on the wire, say down to 0.024 for doing sheetmetal work? Do I have to get a different gun?

I'm seeing 211/AS kits on eBay for ~$1,250 delivered, with a cart and spoolgun. The MVP feature is kinda cool, although I'm more interested in the Autoset.

Autoset feature doesn't do anything for me. If you spend some time with it, you'll quickly "learn" what setting you need to use. I always practice on metal of the same thickness first to dial in the setting I want to use. Good chance the input power (from receptacle) will vary a few volts depending on when you use it.
Different input power will affect your output. Unless you have a welder like a MM251/252 or inverters which will output consistent power (volts).

Used MM210 for $900 is okay deal, but nothing to get all excited about. I have seen MM210 with 150CF bottles sell for $850. Nothing wrong with tapped voltage. They're generally easier to setup since you just have to deal with the wire speed.

You can install a .023 liner in the M25 mig gun. Another option would be to buy a smaller mig gun for sheet metal work. I just use my little 110v Millermatic 130 for sheet metal work.

7 voltage taps are okay. Have more would be better IMHO. You might want to read up on Hobart Ironman 230 that should be available soon. It will do 250 amps and has a bunch of voltage taps. It has gotten great reviews from a tester.

Hobart Welders - Products - Wire Feed Welders - IronMan 230

[KLF]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

Autoset feature doesn't do anything for me. If you spend some time with it, you'll quickly "learn" what setting you need to use. I always practice on metal of the same thickness first to dial in the setting I want to use. Good chance the input power (from receptacle) will vary a few volts depending on when you use it.

Understood on the Autoset. I won't be using this daily, so I need to be able to pick up the gun and go, without re-learning the optimal settings.

You can install a .023 liner in the M25 mig gun. Another option would be to buy a smaller mig gun for sheet metal work. I just use my little 110v Millermatic 130 for sheet metal work.

oofff... sounds like a pita, and having a second box seems silly.

You might want to read up on Hobart Ironman 230 that should be available soon. It will do 250 amps and has a bunch of voltage taps. It has gotten great reviews from a tester.

Hobart Welders - Products - Wire Feed Welders - IronMan 230

I'm sure it's a nice unit, but $1500 is way over my budget, and there's still no spoolgun included.

Thanks for the info, very helpful.

[fj40charles]

Originally Posted by KLF

Understood on the Autoset. I won't be using this daily, so I need to be able to pick up the gun and go, without re-learning the optimal settings.



oofff... sounds like a pita, and having a second box seems silly.



I'm sure it's a nice unit, but $1500 is way over my budget, and there's still no spoolgun included.

Thanks for the info, very helpful.

Autoset is going to get your settings close. It will not get it to what I would call optimal. Optimal being very subjective based on what the weldor(you) likes. Some people like fast wire speed. Some like slower. Really depends on the user AND type of welding your doing. Doubtful that Autoset will work for uphill welding since this generally requires lower voltage. One more thing... Different brand of mig will run differently and you'll need to adjust your setting based on how that particular brand/model of wire works on YOUR welder.

Better to buy a second mig gun to use than to waste your time swapping gun liners. .023 wire is not going to feed very well in a 15 ft. mig gun. Get a 10 ft. gun for .023 wire.

I use my little 110v welder because it is easier to use that instead of switching the mig gun and spool of wire. Not the most cost effective method, but works if you have multiple welders to use.

I would not look at this welder purchase as the one and only one you'll buy. You could just buy the MM211 and use it for a while. Later on, you can get a bigger 250+ amp wire feeder or tig welder for other stuff you might want to do. Keep the MM211 for portable duties or sell it and upgrade to what you want.

IMHO, you can never have too many tools.

[alia176]

when I lived in Chicago, I had the same issues with fumes while fabricating in a closed garage during winter. I installed a simple industrial vent fan with louvers into the exterior garage wall. I think for the size of my garage, it exchanged the air every half hour and that minimized the fume and smell issue. The louvers would open up when the fan turned on. That vent fan came from Grainger and I think it was made by Dayton.