[WaAkFJ]

I am in a program where I get good discounts on MAC, Snap On, and MATCO tools. I also need to buy some better tools for program (A&P) I'm in. Currently I have a mix of Snap on and craftsman tools but only being weekend based, mostly Craftsman. While I have the discount I want to upgrade some of my tools.

Below is my required basic tool list just to be in the shop. There's also the expanded "ready to work" list. I know some items where I have used and like Snap On or Mac tools best. But I don't know all of which is worth spending more money on. Any advice?

I have most of these tools, but I'll need to keep them in the class shop, so I may duplicate tools anyway so I don't have to lug between home and school.

Also, any comments on MATCO boxes? We don't have a rep in town and I've never seen them in person. I like Mac and Snap On boxes, but was wondering how the MATCO box compares.

Pliers, Cleco
Inspection Mirror
Pliers, Diagonal Cutting
Pick up tool magnetic
Pliers, Duckbill
Hammer Ball Peen
Pliers, Longnose
Hammer soft face
Pliers, Channel look
Vice gripe
Screwdriver Set Common
Cold Chisel, 1⁄4
Screwdriver Set Phillips
Cold Chisel ,1⁄2
Adjustable wrench 6”
Volt ohm Meter
Adjustable Wrench 10”
Scissors
Hacksaw With Assorted Blades
Scribe
Punch set pin
Center punch
Punch set aligning
Combination Square
Wrench set Combination
(5⁄16" 7⁄8") Numbered drill Index, 1-60
Fractional Drill Index,1⁄16-1⁄2
Unibit
Wrench set Allen (1⁄16⁄-3⁄8")
Safety Wire, .032",1#
Adapter, ½” Male to 3⁄8" Female
Safety Wire, .040", 1#
Socket set, 1⁄4: Drive
Half round file ,8"
Socket set, 3⁄8: drive
Round file, 8”
Ruler Steel, 6”
Caliper, 6”
Safety Goggles
Respirator, NIOSH/MSHA-approval
Soldering Equipment
Compass For drawing circles
Goggles welding
Ear protection
Gloves Disposable Polyethylene 100
Protective Clothing for welding
Gloves Solvent resistant
Inspection light
Wire Stripper/Crimper
Snap ring pliers
Toolbox Max size 33" long x 21" wide
Fire card
10 power magnification glass
Feeler Gauge

[BenMara]

Im an AMT and i have all of the above mentioned tools in a mix of different companies

[rusty1]

hello to you WaAkFJ
I love snap-on. I have sockets and ratchets plus wrenches that are over 50 years old. Never replaced one yet, bit pricey but worth every penny. I also have mastercraft ( I live in Canada and a store called Canadian Tire) tools which are excellent with all there tools with a 3yrs warranty. I don't know about mac but I hear they are excellent tools. I would not be afraid to go with any of the tools that I mentioned. Been working on cars since I was about 12 yrs ans now 71. I guess its preference. This is only my input. Good luck on your choice.
Rusty1

[Rix86]

snap on ratchets, wrenches (flank drive plus) and chrome socket seem to have the advantage over the others.
Matco has made some good advances in their ratchets lately though, and have more fine tooth varieties on the way.

Matco's impact sockets seem to work as well and last as long as snap on.


Snap on and Matco are really close for boxes, but snap on has a little lead due to cab/drawer designs.
The newer high end mac boxes are ok, but in stress tests were a little behind, and have alot of dead space in the cab.

I have a Matco box at work and an old p.o.s. snap on at home.
Snap on makes some really nice side cutters and whatnot, too.

[Bomar]

You need to go here and spend some time reading.

The Garage Journal

[Gumby]

I see way too many new wrenches get in way too deep with the Snap-On man. Mac and Matco make quality tools that will last you forever. Snap-On is for tool snobs who try to make the new guys feel like they are inadequate because they don't buy "the best". Invest in tools that will allow you to start making some money and upgrade the ones you find you need to.

My first few years in the shop I was paying way too much of my paycheck to the tool trucks.

I fawking hate that I have four or five snapon ratchets that are broken and they just kept fixing them. Now they are all broken again and the snap on guy never comes by the shop so it looks like they will stay broken.

I will always have Snap On line wrenches, but that's it.


The rebadged equipment sucks monkey ass. I have a perpetually broken tire machine, a POS balancer, a couple of very expensive floor jacks and a press that are all in regular need of repairs.

None of that body working stuff you have listed should be Snap-On.

When you get to doing serious powerplant stuff, you might need some better things, but you'll find that out when you get there.

[RavenTai]

You talking roll around boxes or carried? If roll around none of the places I have worked would I bring a mac or snap-on box just too rough of an environment to bring an expensive box with pretty paint. I don't even have roller drawers they are nice but not necessary, proto Waterloo and craftsman are popular boxes, several hundred instead of several thousand the casters are junk but our hanger equip guys make frames that go under the box with better casters, a tow bar in the front and a hitch on the back.

stick with a wide bottom box only, if you have a top box you have to go around the bird instead of being able to go under it. also you get your own work table out of it. ideally you want thick stainless on top for a surface. a mounded vice with aluminum or brass jaws is nice here also.

Do you have any idea where you are going after you get your license? the needed tool list changes quite a bit depending on what you are working on, what skill and who you are working for.

I got my A&P in 97 at the time Snap-on was offering half off for students but I had no $ to spend with them, paid full price later, If they are offering a similar deal and you got the $$ there are some things you could pick up now. but I would not go into debt on tools at this point no mater how much of a "deal" they are offering. I am still working on my tools it never ends so do not think you have to have everything right off the bat.


Why aren't safety wire pliers on your list? milbar reversable, don't pay extra for the rubber inset on the cutter, they fall off pretty quick. milbars are re-branded by snap-on and a few others for more money. don't bother with the big ones, aircraft maintenance is all about getting into and and working in tight places.

all sockets wrenches etc need to be 12 point.

For sockets you will spend most of you time with 1/4" drive, Snap-on has the tightest diameter, gets places other sockets will not go, I like snap-on high torque ratchets, but the big head ones with the rotating disk not so much. you will eventually need several, i would start with long & short, later floppy, fine tooth, gearless, hi-lok (has hole for alen wrench) etc, and I like wobble extensions also, I use them all the time but some people don't like them and use them only when the need the wobble for clearance so you may need regular extensions also, craftsman fine there, you will also need deep sockets, later you can pick up medium deep if needed.

3/8" and 1/2" drive you will use less, but need to have around, craftsman sockets extensions fine here. later you can get better ratchets.

You will use flat head screwdrivers quite a bit, rarely for screws, snap on makes the best and they are worth having,

ratcheting scredriver, I prefer the old style just about every A&P has one, the newer style has interchangeable length shafts but it has some oddities that they are working on, BTW bright colorful handles are better, they don't disappear as easily as the black handled stuff, Lowes/kobalt has a decent one for about half the price not quite as nice but will work.

you will not use a fixed Philips screwdriver much, mainly only when your ratcheting one will not fit down a tight bore, no need to spend big bucks there,

I really like the T-handle also, SSDMRT1R, Screwdriver, Ratcheting, Magnetic, T-Handle, Stubby, Red, 3 15/16", you can generate a lot of torque with this one, also gets in some kinds of tight places the other cannot and vice versa.

Nipex, KNIPEX - The Pliers Company. - Products - (http://www.pliers-online.com) these are expensive but great to have, these are adjustable pliers that will work as well as open end wrench, can also squeeze small rivets and many other tasks, get the small ones first,

wrenches, you will need standard combo wrenches should have at least up to 3/4" or so to start, up to 1 1/2" soon after, eventually you will need short, long, I also like the offset boxes in a few commonly used sizes,

vice grips of all sizes and shapes

you go to hammer should be brass, 27oz BRASS HAMMER /BROOKS-USA made(aka MAC TOOL BRH27) - eBay (item 370143003765 end time Oct-07-09 18:25:37 PDT)

Gear wrenches are one of the great invertions to come out during my career I like them in double box myself but I seam to be the only one, others like them as combo's but that seams to duplicate the combo's I already have. i dont need more open ends (except for angle/line wrenches) and having bouble box ratcheting saves weight in the tote tray.

keep an eye out for used air tools cheap, but keep in mind some companies will provide some air tools, if you find them cheap pick em up you are going to need a small 1/4" drill, I like sioux, if yo are buying your own bits lower RPM is better, company privided faster is better, you will probably use of a threaded 90 motor and maybe even a 45, if you see them cheap, if you go sheet metal they are required, along with a bunch of other drilling equip. I got a sioux 90 motor on ebay for $125 with the stickers still on it.

you will need a rivet gun, start with 4x, go bigger or smaller as needed, the older ones seam to hit harder for some reason
3/8" impact, for opening panels.
screw gun, 35 inch pounds or so, for putting panels back on.

good flashlight and good headlight,

pick set/bugger hook

crows feet, universal sockets,
I am rambling on so better quit these are the things I like and need. you can get some stuff now but be conservative you will have a better understanding of exactly what you need when you get where you are going.

[VanGo]

RT-

Thanks for taking the time to post this host of information!

Van

[IBCRUSN]

I've been in corporate aviation for nearly my entire aviation career and agree with RT's list of goodies. There are few items I am particular about the brand for various reasons. Here's a brief list:

Snap-on angle wrenches - the one and only 30*/60* wrench. Depending on the size of aircraft you plan to work on 1/4" - 1 1/4" is a excellent start. Outside of a tool box the one item I wish I had purchased prior to graduating A&P school because they are spendy.

SK ratchets - I have thoroughly abused my 1/4" & 3/8" by using pipe slipped on each for breaker bars (yes, even on the 1/4") and as a impromptu hammer. Not to mention the fineness of the ratchet teeth. Mac Tools has either purchased or worked a deal with SK/Facom to produce their fine tooth ratchets so take advantage of your Mac discount on those items as well. As a side note I have broken every other brand ratchet in my box more than once.

Sioux or Dotco for air tools - they will last your entire career if cared for.

Ditto on the bi-sexual Millbar safety wire pliers. I prefer the wave grip as it doesn't tear up the wire but either will work. Never had a problem with the silicone insert but if you buy one without use PRC and cut with a razor.

Ditto on the old school Snap-on ratchet screw diver. Scour eBay and you can occasionally find a new pink screw driver. Yes, it's pink and you will be teased but no one, I repeat no one will steal it from you.

You'll eventually need a set of long screw drivers for a couple of reasons don't buy cheap screw drivers.

Chinese Charley wrenches and sockets are great if you need a large size or need to modify a wrench. I have run across very few large fasteners that require any substantial torque.

I wish you the best of luck on your adventure in aviation.

[RavenTai]

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

Snap-on angle wrenches - the one and only 30*/60* wrench. Depending on the size of aircraft you plan to work on 1/4" - 1 1/4" is a excellent start. Outside of a tool box the one item I wish I had purchased prior to graduating A&P school because they are spendy.

I almost went there but then decided it was too much for a student, when you need a 30/60 wrench nothing else will do, I think I figured once with the addition of a standard 15 degree open end wrench is is a maximum of something like 12 different wrench grips per flat on a Bnut. miserable work going a few degree swap wrenches or flip the current one, I never can seam to keep the order straight either. but nothing else can do it, the full set 1/4" to 2" is over $2K, I have never needed over the 1 1/2" I have. some sizes do not seam to get used at all.

maybe start with something like 7/16 9/16 11/16 3/4 13/16 7/8 ? that will get a lot of common line sizes.


I think I have seen the wave milbars once and forgot about them, very cool. no little gripper marks on the wire, suposedly you are only to use pliers on the tail and do the rest by hand, the tail tooling maks gets cut off, reality is the pliers get used whenever they fit. mine are pushign a decade old, dont think the wave was available when I bought mine

Corporate run Skydrol or 5606? I think the itch juice is what ills the rubber insets,

Funny you mention the pink one our snap on guy had several on sale for a long time, a few guys bought them for a second one to use at home, oddly enough the few women we had would not touch em either.

Dotco is very good, our tool room had a lot of it but I have not seen much of it for sale.

[IBCRUSN]

In tight spaces the 30/60 is the best. IIRC I started with the 3/8 - 1 set which was $3xx and added the balance of 1/4 - 1 1/4 + 1 1/2. The 1/4 was more of a $25 novelty item, I think I used it once.

Other than Gulfstream's and certain Citation's most of corporate is 5606, no idea on the corp Embraer's. Those two use Skydrol or Brayco. Skydrol is some nasty stuff, I feel for all the airline guys.

[Walton]

I like my Pittsburgh tools from Harbor Tool. I get to spend more money on the cruiser.

[WaAkFJ]

Thanks for all the help. Its nice to know I've got such a great resource on Mud.

Just got my Snap On and Matco orders and Matco box. Already after ordering, I realized I forgot some things I wanted and need some other things.



Just a few more questions from whats already been mentioned.

What's the best way to organize? I like the foam with tools laser cut but realize that's a little too spendy. I'd like to be more organized than my home shop. Any suggestions

Sioux and Dotco are new to me. Would it be better to get used Sioux than buy a Snap On air drill (it would be 50% off)?
PDR3000, Drill, Air, Heavy Duty, 3/8" capacity

Originally Posted by Rix86

snap on ratchets, wrenches (flank drive plus) and chrome socket seem to have the advantage over the others. Matco has made some good advances in their ratchets lately though, and have more fine tooth varieties on the way.

Got the snap on ratchets! Like em alot. Also bought a 3/8 drive from Matco as a spare. Used it a bunch already but don't like the rubberized grip.

Originally Posted by Rix86

Snap on and Matco are really close for boxes, but snap on has a little lead due to cab/drawer designs.

I bought the Matco box because I got a pretty good deal on the 55".

Originally Posted by RavenTai

You talking roll around boxes or carried? If roll around none of the places I have worked would I bring a mac or snap-on box just too rough of an environment to bring an expensive box with pretty paint. I don't even have roller drawers they are nice but not necessary, proto Waterloo and craftsman are popular boxes, several hundred instead of several thousand the casters are junk but our hanger equip guys make frames that go under the box with better casters, a tow bar in the front and a hitch on the back.

I have a craftsman box for home. For what it is, it does fine. Never would want to move it though. Putting a frame sounds like a great idea. I paid about the same as a similar sized craftsman for the Matco box I just got today. Most of my work will be hanger environment.

Originally Posted by RavenTai

stick with a wide bottom box only, if you have a top box you have to go around the bird instead of being able to go under it. also you get your own work table out of it. ideally you want thick stainless on top for a surface. a mounded vice with aluminum or brass jaws is nice here also.

Thanks for the suggestion on a vice on the bench. Great idea !

Originally Posted by RavenTai

Do you have any idea where you are going after you get your license? the needed tool list changes quite a bit depending on what you are working on, what skill and who you are working for.

Will work small planes (singles / twins) for a while.

Originally Posted by RavenTai

I got my A&P in 97 at the time Snap-on was offering half off for students but I had no $ to spend with them, paid full price later, If they are offering a similar deal and you got the $$ there are some things you could pick up now. but I would not go into debt on tools at this point no mater how much of a "deal" they are offering. I am still working on my tools it never ends so do not think you have to have everything right off the bat.

The Student Price is still 50% or more on some items.

[QUOTE=RavenTai;4779828]
Why aren't safety wire pliers on your list? milbar reversible, don't pay extra for the rubber inset on the cutter, they fall off pretty quick. milbars are re-branded by snap-on and a few others for more money. don't bother with the big ones, aircraft maintenance is all about getting into and and working in tight places. (/QUOTE).



[QUOTE=RavenTai;4779828] ratcheting scredriver, I prefer the old style just about every A&P has one, the newer style has interchangeable length shafts but it has some oddities that they are working on, BTW bright colorful handles are better, they don't disappear as easily as the black handled stuff, (/QUOTE).
Yep I already had a bright orange ratcheting screwdriver. That's one snap on tool I've had for a while. I ordered another because they I figured it was only $30 and might make a good present for my Dad.




[QUOTE=RavenTai;4779828] keep an eye out for used air tools cheap, but keep in mind some companies will provide some air tools, if you find them cheap pick em up you are going to need a small 1/4" drill, I like sioux, if yo are buying your own bits lower RPM is better, company privided faster is better, you will probably use of a threaded 90 motor and maybe even a 45, if you see them cheap, if you go sheet metal they are required, along with a bunch of other drilling equip. I got a sioux 90 motor on ebay for $125 with the stickers still on it. (/QUOTE)

Are the 90 degree drills more useful than the regular? I will be doing lots of sheet metal work.

Thanks for the help Raven Tai. Really good info.

[QUOTE=IBCRUSN;4781465] Sioux or Dotco for air tools - they will last your entire career if cared for. (/QUOTE)



[QUOTE=IBCRUSN;4781465] You'll eventually need a set of long screw drivers for a couple of reasons don't buy cheap screw drivers. (/QUOTE)
I bought a couple long snap on screw drivers because I already have needed them on my plane project.

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

I wish you the best of luck on your adventure in aviation.

Thanks! So far loving every minute !

[RavenTai]

Dotco and sioux are industrial brands not marketed to the general consumer, the snap-on you linked to is a re badged sioux,

Sioux Tools Drills

If you do much sheet metal work you will find a 1/4" drill is handier than 3/8". the light weight and small size will get into more places, The 90 motor is just to get into places the 1/4" drill will not go, do not worry about threaded drills for now, you wont have the big sheet metal jobs we have in commercial.

for what you are doing maybe a 3/8" may be a more appropriate as an all arounder. its a dam good drill at half price and will certainly get you started

As for organization I never have had enough room to shadow my tools, it is required in some military contract work and often in that situation they provide a small box with basic tools shadowed and everything else you check out of a tool room.

for the next 5 years or so your toolbox will be constantly gaining weight and you tool set will be constantly changing, i would not worry about any kind of shadowing for now, wrenches go in the wrenches drawer, pliers in the pliers drawer etc,

in commercial we have tote trays, a caryable toolbox of around 50 pounds or so of your most commonly used tools, some guys build their own out of aluminum those will often have a spot for each tool, but not in foam, it would not last, aluminum, shaped riveted and glued, washes spacers and bolts to organize wrenches, Adel clamps for punched and pliers, but that is not something you are going to be able to setup at this point, in GA you are never more than a few steps from your roll around anyway

[RavenTai]

oh and get a ford wrench

Catalog No. C79H Product Detail

[AJP]

I am strictly "shade tree" .... but this thread reminded me that I always wanted a Snap-On ratcheting screwdriver ... as a result I just got one off EBay. I have broken a lot of cheap and not so cheap ratcheting screwdrivers (except an old Herbrand which has soldiered on for years) and finally got this Snap-On ... so far just playing with it is nice .. it is a handful and a little larger than others I have used.

I did some summer(s) work on I&R for a telco that issued Klein tools and as a result I have a great admiration for their pliers, nutdrivers and side cutters - other than that I have the usual assortment of average and piss-poor tools I grumble over.

[IBCRUSN]

1/4" drills are the way to go. If/when you need anything larger it's not usually for sheet metal work and you can use your cordless screw gun. Although it came out after I purchased my Sioux the 1/4" 3600 rpm mini palm drill is one of the best I've used.

Keep an eye on eBay or some of the better retailers (Brown, The Yard Store, etc) that offer used tools and you can find decent 90* or 45* threaded drills. They might not be on your short list but if you get into heavy sheet metal work (wrecks, corrosion and such) you'll need them.

Ahhh, we almost forgot the Ford wrench.

[RavenTai]

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

wrecks

[Poser]

Originally Posted by IBCRUSN

wrecks

Originally Posted by RavenTai

It is a reality, and when I was in A&P School at TRF, we worked on/tore apart sections of balled up/scrapped aircraft airframe so that you could see the effects of ‘destructive testing’, and how to possibly approach repair/salvage issues.

[IBCRUSN]

It's GA, it isn't a matter if it's when. Some get lucky and it doesn't happen in the XX number of years but others wreck at least once or more. Not to mention line guys or for the airline folks bag smashers and hangar rash. Keeps us busy. Come to think of it I have a Premier 1 kit plane project that ran off the runway in MO waiting on the insurance company. It needs a new wing and several composite repairs.

Sorry for the chat.