SE TLCA Chapter...Tellico needs your help

[k9crazy]

Calling all Southeast TLCA chapters!!!

Over the MLK weekend I was at Tellico with Upstate Cruisers and Georgia Cruisers and while wheeling in on Friday we ran across the Forest Service. The folks we talked to were from the West Coast and were riding the trails looking around to consult on the environmental issues at Tellico. If you have been following what's going on there, erosion is a major concern and the environmental groups in the area are putting a lot of pressure to reduce erosion or close the area.

We chatted with these fellas for a good hour and a half. They are good folks that have a lot of experience out west. Their assessment at that time was that if something major doesn't happen to correct and control erosion, the area will not survive.

We had the opportunity to wheel with Rob Theurer (TellicoRob) on Sunday and we talked about some "out of the box" ideas on how we as a community could make a major difference in the area. One idea we discussed was coming up with a comprehensive erosion control plan for the area. The plan would have to compliment the forest service ranger district's land use plan.

The idea would work, in my opinion, but would take the input and participation of a number of TLCA chapters in the SE. I propose that these steps (in general) would need to take place:

1) consult with the ranger district to see if they are willing to work with the offroad community to develop an appropriate plan.
2) consult with the local environmental groups to see if they are willing to reduce pressure for closure with the development and implementation of the plan.
3) write up a scope for the work to be done and apply for RTP funds in Tennessee and North Carolina to prepare the plan.
3) Contract with a land use management/environmental consultant to survey the area for erosion concerns, and prepare the plan.
4) present the plan to the district, the greenies, etc. for approval
5) prepare a grant application for long term funding through RTP (or other funding options) for implementation of the plan
6) bid the construction work to local contractors
7) implement the plan on a long term basis...maybe 5 years or so
8) maintain the area with ongoing RTP funds

So, the purpose of this post is to solicit opinions of the TLCA chapters in the SE on the potential to participate and support this plan.

I am an environmental consultant and would be willing to help through this process. This could be the most significant and proactive action the offroad community could take on the east coast. It could also be a model to help save other OHV areas! Please post up your opinions and if your club chapter is willing to assist with volunteer hours, support, or whatever.

Thanks, and sorry for the longwinded post!

[HercDriver]

Heather,
Unbelievably courageous first step!
As daunting an uphill struggle as this appears, it can be won!
What many may not know is how the erosion enforcement has moved to the county level, and in some states, as recently as Sept 06. Since all politics eventually return to local issues, this may provide for some 'unusual' allies, especially at Tellico.
Take a 'Hawg hunter' to lunch.....ya'know! This coalition could be bigger than you think.
KM

[clemson55]

Heres some info so you know whats going on, first link is the projected dates for having a finished map and plan I believe its sept 07 for Tellico. Can't find the other page I was looking for I'll link it later if I can find it. But somewhere theres a page listing OHV locations and what they are expecting them to do for their management plans and right now Tellico is listed as maintaining its existing trails system no closings.
http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/prog...t_schedule.pdf

[k9crazy]

True, Tellico is listed as maintaining trails. And you bring up a good point, the Forest Service has no immediate plans to close Tellico. However, the environmental issues there are big enough and are drawing enough attention, that if they are not proactively addressed, they will be forced to change their action plan.

What I am proposing is a proactive fix before it's too late. So many times we in the community don't find out about closures until the NEPA action is already underway and by then, most of the time, the deed is done. When the West Coast guys said "if something major doesn't happen here, these trails will end up closed," I listened.

[clemson55]

The real problem in this case might actually come down to the Endangered Species Act more than any other env. legislation or govt agency. The ESA is the strongest legislation that protects land in US even though that wasnt its intention. The minute something puts any kind of jeopardy on a threatened or endangered species habitat its over. In this case disturbing the streams and the native trout.

[Trollhole]

Heather I sent an e-mail to Rob and will try to work something out. I think they the STCLA can help us in forming a good plan.

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by Trollhole

Heather I sent an e-mail to Rob and will try to work something out. I think they the STCLA can help us in forming a good plan.

Excellent Marshall. Thanks for your prompt attention. The Georgia Cruisers is also forming a Land Use Committee that will do the same. I think it's time that we all support STLCA in coming up with a plan that will work!

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by clemson55

The real problem in this case might actually come down to the Endangered Species Act more than any other env. legislation or govt agency. The ESA is the strongest legislation that protects land in US even though that wasnt its intention. The minute something puts any kind of jeopardy on a threatened or endangered species habitat its over. In this case disturbing the streams and the native trout.

The trout are not protected under the ESA, as they are not threatend or endangered. However, the coldwater streams where they live are protected by Tenneseee law. That being said, who knows what else lives there. Even more important to reduce the silt load so as not to impact anything. Right now it seems the Clean Water Act is the regulation that is the issue.

[peterb]

Heather
I'd like to help with this project and also contact the rangers that oversee the Daniel Boone National Forest here in Kentucky.
Greg, I know this is what you do as Pres. of Blue Ribbon Coalition so I'm asking for advice/suggestions on how to formulate goals we'd like to achieve and the best ways to approach Forest Service officials.
Thanks in advance.
Peter
Bluegrass Cruisers

[clemson55]

Between TN and NC theres 153 threatened or endangered species listed so theres probably a couple dozen related to the mountain stream ecosystems of the area. Even if thats not what they are going after at the moment they certainly could and it would actually be faster and more effective if they did. The two issues are interrelated for sure though.

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by clemson55

Between TN and NC theres 153 threatened or endangered species listed so theres probably a couple dozen related to the mountain stream ecosystems of the area. Even if thats not what they are going after at the moment they certainly could and it would actually be faster and more effective if they did. The two issues are interrelated for sure though.

Right you are! I am glad you are on our side!!

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by peterb

Heather
I'd like to help with this project and also contact the rangers that oversee the Daniel Boone National Forest here in Kentucky.
Greg, I know this is what you do as Pres. of Blue Ribbon Coalition so I'm asking for advice/suggestions on how to formulate goals we'd like to achieve and the best ways to approach Forest Service officials.
Thanks in advance.
Peter
Bluegrass Cruisers

Excellent Peter! So far we have Upstate Cruisers, Georgia Cruisers, and Bluegrass Cruisers ready and willing to pitch in. AWESOME!

I will contact our friends at Southern Four Wheel Drive and see what they are up to. They have successfully applied for and won RTP money in Georgia before. I am working with them on Anderson Creek in Georgia. That, by the way, is an instance where the USFS decided what they wanted to do before we had a chance to make a difference.

Oh, and if anyone is interested, I put together a proposal to form a working group of stakeholders for Anderson Creek. PM your e-mail address to me and I'll send it to you if you would like to take a look.

I would imagine STLCA would be the lead club here since it's their area, but by putting together a coalition of clubs we can bring some good experience and, as Rob put it "out of the box ideas," and really help them a lot! I certainly don't want to step on anyone's toes, after all STLCA has done so much!!! For sure Tellico wouldn't be around if it weren't for them!

OH, and Daniel Boone, I know that there have been NEPA actions there before regarding OHV use. An EIS was prepared in the mid to late '90's, but I am not as familiar with that one. I would think that once we have a good solid success story with the USFS on the East Coast, we should be able to translate it to other places with other issues. Precedent is a good think in the world of the federal government.

[k9crazy]

Things that everyone who wants to help should read:

OHV trail Designation Information:

http://www.arra-access.com/arra/ohv_...on_center.html
http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2005/relea...nagement.shtml

USFS OHV Program:

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/

West Coast Collaboration Summit:

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/prog...roceedings.pdf

SFWDA Info on Tellico:

http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/index.html

And last, but certainly not least, here is the website for the USFS folks from the West Coast that we ran into. I think engaging them would be a great start!

http://www.fs.fed.us/trailsunlimited/

[dragr1]

Subscribing to this. I'm a Forester in Alabama. Let me know if you think of something I can do to help.


I'll be reading through the above literature. I work in the private industry and not for the State or US Gov.

[k9crazy]

Excellent! Thanks Dragr1!

I also have a feedback form we can use to give the USFS our opinions on the trails we use. It rates things like quality of trail maps, adequate trail riding opportunities, campgrounds, etc. I can send to anyone who is interested. Just PM me your request and your email address. This was developed by Cam Lockwood of Trails Unlimited.

Jpgs are below.

[k9crazy]

FYI, I am now in communication with SFWDA and will be meeting with them soon.

[Greg Mumm]

Thanks Peter for hailing my attention to this and props to Heather for stepping up and calling folks to action. I am always greatly encouraged by folks like you.

What you are starting here is awesome! I would like to be of as much help as I can with this. What you are up against here is not unlike what has taken place in other areas such as the Rubicon and there are some fundamentals that have worked successfully in those efforts that would also apply to what you are proposing to do here.

I will take a bit of time here and prepare a longer response after I talk with a few key people. I will post that up after I have done that.

Meantime, if the Trails Unlimited folks have already been called in on this, that means there is likely already an approach the Agency is planning here. Has the background work on finding out who in the Agency is involved in that? Equally as important, has anyone had any contact with them to figure out what direction they are currently tacking on this?

Also, it is always good to figure out who are the organizations that are pressing them? I seem to remember that Trout Unlimited has seemingly had an interest in this area and others. Always good to know who and what their specific agenda is... other than just closure. Those are issues that will need to be outlined and addressed in any effort from our side.

Again, good job in stepping up here.

Greg Mumm
BlueRibbon Coalition

[k9crazy]

Thanks Greg! It's good to have your experience and opinions here!

To answer your questions:

There is a lot of history with Tellico and Southern Four Wheel Drive Association has been involved for years. They have a strong relationship with the Ranger there and have been working with him a lot. Just last year they put in volunteer hours worth about $55K to the USFS. They are the experts when it comes to what's going on up there. I want to make it very clear that I am not questioning or belittling what they are doing and have done. In fact, just the opposite, it's time the Land Cruiser Community stepped up and helped them! We use Tellico; we should help take care of it!

In speaking with Stefan Roth, the president of SFWDA, he does not believe that the USFS brought the Trails Unlimited guys in on this, or at least he doesn't know that they did for sure. In fact, he suspects it could be the Trout Unlimited folks or another NGO (of which there are many, so I understand). His take is that Trails Unlimited has a pro-closure bias and that they are not good news for us.

This is from Stefan Roth, SFWDA President in response to an email I sent yesterday asking telling them about Trails Unlimited's presence and my encounter and observations:


"As to "proactive involvement" and "major investing" and so on, we've
been at it for years, doing more work every year. There is a
comprehensive Maintenance and Operations Plan that has been followed for
years.
Data on some of our work can be found at
http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/
with summaries at:
Tellico Accomplishments for 2005 -
http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/tellicowork2005.html
Tellico Work Results for 2004 -
http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/tellicowork2004.html
[SIZE=2]I don't have the 2006 summary yet"

I have requested a copy of the plan that is in place (I was unaware that this existed when I started this thread, mostly because when I talked to Rob and brought up putting together a plan, he thought that would be a great idea and I assumed that since he didn't know of one, there wasn't one). I'll also be meeting with Stefan and others on February 3rd to discuss Tellico. I'll report back here on how the Land Cruiser Community can get more involved. Not that I want to downplay anything that has been done to date, but in my experience, it can be risky to keep the same folks working day in and day out with regulators and not have an influx of new opinions and new eyes on a situation. That's how people get blindsided with issues. My fear is that if we rely too heavily on the existing data, knowledge, plans, and relationships, we could get into a situation we were unaware was brewing under our radar.

In business, the best time to look for change is when you are doing well, not when you are already losing money. I think that's the case here too. Things seem to be status-quo to those involved, but I hear rumblings and want us to help effect change to squelch them before they turn into a thunderstorm.

OH, and I look forward to your long answer Greg! I have a lot to learn here, but hope that my background can also add to what we already know! I can't tell you how much I agree about knowing your opponents agenda. If there is anything I have learned, it is keep your friends close and your enemies closer! It's amazing how many things we assume are true, when indeed, we couldn't be more wrong. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and we need to keep in mind that some compromise will go a long way to make our desires fit in with those of the Forest Service and the NGO's.

OK...I think I am done adding stuff. I could type about this kind of stuff all day...

[Trollhole]

Great job Heather. I'd like to know how your meeting on the 3rd goes with SFWDA. If possible could you call me and give me a little update that night. It would be great to be able to tell everyone at the meeting that night what you are doing and have found.

[nuclearlemon]

wayne from united mentioned something about tellico, but has anyone contacted united with details. now might be the time to let them, and carla boucher, know.

[k9crazy]

Thanks Marshall. If I can remember, I will certainly give you a call. With all that's going on, it might be better if you give me a ring on my cell. The meeting starts at 9AM, so I imagine I'll be done and on my way home in the afternoon.

As for United, I do believe that SFWDA is a member group, so they should be in the loop. In fact, I know that United has helped SFWDA on other isseus at other areas before. But, I will check with Stefan to make sure that they are included in the group as it comes together. Thanks nuclearlemon!

[tellicorob]

Southren Four Wheel Drive Assoc. has been the power behind keeping Tellico open. They have done the bulk of the maint. since the USFS took over the area in the mid 80's. They have invested in equiptment for this job, Dumptrucks, backhoe, etc. This is the whole reason that they started the Dixie Run. STLCA has also been donating trachoe time (40hrs. + per year) and supplies for equiptment maint., as well as alot of voulnteer labor and cruiser time.This is where a chunk of the money from GSMTR goes. I am currently one of the the SFWDA reps. with the USFS for Tellico. I help with the ground work on the trails. The REAL battle ( the political one ) is fought by the leadership of SFWDA. STLCA, Georgia Cruisers and several of our other chapters are member clubs of SFWDA, one of the first things we can do to help is to get as many of our chapters in the South East involved with Southren as possible. Basically the more members SFWDA has the bigger stick they have to fight this battle for us. Their web site is SFWDA.org if you want to check it out. In my opinion our efforts will be a lot more productive if we coordinate with Southren. Heather has some good ideas here, I believe that if we coordinate with SFWDA we can make a difference.

[DSLTOY]

Originally Posted by nuclearlemon

wayne from united mentioned something about tellico, but has anyone contacted united with details. now might be the time to let them, and carla boucher, know.

A couple of things Rob missed mentioning, Annually there is a"Stake Holders " meeting with the USFS, SFWDA, and representatives from TN & NC wildlife and conservation and of course our biggest opposition Trout Unlimited. The issues and plans for the area are discussed. Carla was invited to the last meeting but was unable to attend due to other commitments. Most of the items Heather has proposed have been discussed at these meetings, many still require action.

The USFS has just closed bids on a contract to do trail maintance, cleaning silt traps, rebuilding burms to divert water off the trail and harden some sections of the trail that are eroding. The money available will not cover all the trails but will get those closest to the rivers/creeks repaired. The contract only covers the machine work, SFWDA volunteers will haul all the surge stone needed for the project in SFWDA's 5 ton trucks.

SFWDA has had volunteers to help with the trails, the issue is that most of the work requires a small group of experienced equipment operators and the few Southern has have been over worked in the past years, as a result trail maintance has fallen behind. Operating heavy equipment in the OHV area requires experienced people or we spend too much time fixing the equipment.
If you are an experienced backhoe operator or heavy truck driver with off road experience please contact Rob, he needs workers. Incase you missed it in his post, Rob is the SFWDA coordinator for the Upper Tellico OHV area, the Forest service tells him what they would like done and he either does the work himself or get volunteers to do it.

[DSLTOY]

I had an IM from a person wanting to know what he could do to help. First I am not an elected officer of SFWDA, I am the STLCA representative and volunteer laborer.
Taking a shotgun approch my cause more harm than good. SFWDA has worked with the USFS for the past 20 years more or less and is the point of contact for us. The area Forest Service people have stated they want all donations, volunteer work,etc. to go through SFWDA. They discuss most proposed changes and action items with the SFWDA Leadership.

What can you do to help- PARTICIPARE

1. If you or your club are not SFWDA members join NOW!
2.Make sure your club is represented at the SFWDA Quarterly meetings, the schedule is posted at sfwda.org.
3.Come to the River/Trail clean-up on March 10, they keep track of participants by originazition. Come to quarterly meeting after the clean-up.
4.If you or other club members want to help with trail maintenance, send your contact info and any special skills you have to tellicorob@tds.net.
5. Support the events that are raising money for the area, Southern Trail Feast, GSMTR and the Dixie Run.

[k9crazy]

Originally Posted by DSLTOY

I had an IM from a person wanting to know what he could do to help. First I am not an elected officer of SFWDA, I am the STLCA representative and volunteer laborer.
Taking a shotgun approch my cause more harm than good. SFWDA has worked with the USFS for the past 20 years more or less and is the point of contact for us. The area Forest Service people have stated they want all donations, volunteer work,etc. to go through SFWDA. They discuss most proposed changes and action items with the SFWDA Leadership.

What can you do to help- PARTICIPARE

1. If you or your club are not SFWDA members join NOW!
2.Make sure your club is represented at the SFWDA Quarterly meetings, the schedule is posted at sfwda.org.
3.Come to the River/Trail clean-up on March 10, they keep track of participants by originazition. Come to quarterly meeting after the clean-up.
4.If you or other club members want to help with trail maintenance, send your contact info and any special skills you have to tellicorob@tds.net.
5. Support the events that are raising money for the area, Southern Trail Feast, GSMTR and the Dixie Run.

Absolutely Roger. By no means is this thread intended to create the shotgun approach. It is intended to bring us all TOGETHER in this.

As I said above, I am the SFWDA rep for the Georgia Cruisers and am going to the SFWDA Leadership meeting the first week in Feb. I will report that we have a growing interest in helping them, and find out where we can help. We have a lot of talented and generous people around this board and in the LC community as a whole, as is evidenced by this thread.

Roger brings up an important point, if your club is not a member of SFWDA, join now! Elect a representative to attend meeting and get the scoop on what's going on and commit what you can to help.

[peterb]

Last week, I had never heard of SWFDA. Today I sent in my membership form. I've got the Trailfest and Dixie Run on my calendar. Roger/Rob are the work dates on the web site?
Peter E. Brown
Bluegrass Cruisers

[DSLTOY]

Originally Posted by peterb

Last week, I had never heard of SWFDA. Today I sent in my membership form. I've got the Trailfest and Dixie Run on my calendar. Roger/Rob are the work dates on the web site?
Peter E. Brown
Bluegrass Cruisers

If it is a big project the dates may be on the calender section of the website, but since most of the projects are done by 2-3 equipment operators and a couple of us unskilled types they are arrange directly with the people involved.

The River clean-up is on the website.

[k9crazy]

Southern Four Wheel Drive had their leadership meeting on Feb 3 in Dawsonville, GA and Tellico was a big discussion point. Rob and Roger were there and as usual represented the Toyota folks well. Right now SFWDA has $20K set aside for Tellico this year. That coupled with the $20K contract the USFS has out for bid will give $40K for this year. What we are missing is labor. Most of the labor will be volunteer and we need to support Rob and Roger in getting things done. As tings progress, I'll try to post up work days. If you have a skill that could help, please let Rob (TellicoRob) know ASAP. They are in particular need of people that can drive the "big" trucks and equipment operators.

This year (soon!) we will be crafting a management plan that can be presented to the USFS for their use in defending the OHV area to groups with concerns. The plan will be strategic and tactical and will have immediate actions as well as maintainence activities for 5 years. The idea will be that it can be dynamic and adjusted as things change on the ground. There will also be formal reporting built in so that we can show them exactly what we are doing, when, and the tremendous support from the community they are receiving.

We have a call on Monday to discuss this with SFWDA, Blueribbon, and United Four Wheel Drive. I'll update the thread as I learn more.

Oh, and the next volunteer opportunity is MARCH 10th for the Tellico River Clean Up. It's a joint effort with local interests. Here's the info from SFWDA's web site. Please try to attend if at all possible...the more support we can show the better off we will be!

The Tellico River Cleanup Day is co-sponsored by Southern 4WD Association, the Tusquitee Ranger District, the Tellico Ranger District and Trout Unlimited.
The eighth annual cleanup day is Saturday, March 10, 2007. We will pick up trash along the river banks, roads and trails.

Please be sure to sign in with the Forest Service - all volunteers should sign in, i.e., members, spouses, and children and include your club name!
The Forest Service will pick up the bagged trash. Please leave full bags on the side of main roads (paved Tellico River road, entire trail 1, and trail 5 before Rough Crossing). So that all our trash pickup efforts are counted, do not put bags in trash receptacles.

• Rain or Shine
• Registration begins 8:00 am at the Tellico Ranger Station (near Tellico Plain, TN) and at the Stateline Campground.
• Work starts at 9:00 am.
• Bags will be provided
• Bright colored clothing is recommended
• Bringing gloves is recommended
• Bring your lunch and drinks (no alcohol)

[k9crazy]

This morning we had a phone call with SFWDA, United Four Wheel Drive Club and Blueribbon. There is a real swelling of support from Clubs in the Southeast and from National Clubs in support of Tellico. It's fantastic to see everyone taking proactive steps towards keeping the jewel of the east open for use.

We talked a lot about the OHV Trails Designation Rules that are out and being implemented and how we can work with the USFS to help them through it at Tellico. I really think that between SFWDA's outstanding maintenence of the area and eveyrone's involvement and feeback about the designation rules, we can make a difference now, before it it too late.

I'll continue to post on the progress of this newly created "working group: here and let people know how they can get involved.

Thanks for everyone's support, and keep it coming, we're gonna need it!

[ATLRoach]

I run GA TTORA and work very closely with other SE chapters. Let me know what you need from us to help.

Kyle Roach