I've had it!

[SpaceGhost]

I'm sure know one really cares but I am out! Funny how a small minority do all the work in an organization, and in a like fashion, a smaller minority fawkitup! The rest of us are passengers.......... or used to be.

Respectfully the Trails was the TLCA's glue but the membership office seems to have trouble taking renewals BEFORE you expire. Since I haven't gotten one all year, I realized I don't even miss it. Sorry Henry :-[

And while I'm venting, Todd B, us "POR types" actually wheel our shit, and are just as intolerant of the poMike types as you are! Yes I took offense to your statement even if Todd K didn't.

Mike "SpaceGhost" Smythe the guy who sucks for actually competing in the SuperCrawl and finishing a lowly 17th! Ironic isn't it, thats ahead of ALL but 16 people in the web wheeling world but I did have a Pirate4x4.com decal (and Lone Star club decal) on my rig.

I'll be back after I find the bastid that pissed in my Wheaties..................

[PHAT MAX]

damn! i was supposed to be the one who posted the first thread in this forum! Ya i got the LCML for about two weeks, in digest form. In the two weeks total, there were about three e-mails i could make use of. the rest should be taken care of in AIM and Yahoo messenger and the like :

~thats just my chump changes' worth~

Max

[woody]

Now that the LCML is moderated, the digests I received this morning were quite readable. Finally.

For the first time in over 10 years of continuous TLCA membership I'm actually considering not renewing... I'm on the bodreps mailing list (the list for all the club reps and BOD officers) and frankly, that's a major part of what turned me off to the organization....so much pettiness from so many.

I joined TLCA in 1990 since I had purchased a Cruiser the previous fall and didn't know squat about it. Spotted a ad in the back of one of the national mags and sent in my dues. Started getting the trails, learned a ton of techincal info. enjoyed the trail ride reports, and appreciated the source of suppliers and their discounts. &nbspidn't give a squat about the bylaws. Now, since I know the suppliers, have the internet as a parts resource, and frankly make as many of my own parts as buy them, the only reason to belong to TLCA is the Trails.

bah....wasted too much of my evening last night thinking and fuming about this issue. Got better stuff to worry about, like install options for the new sliding seat brackets from Summit that arrived yesterday....

[tmbrtmr]

I have been a member of the TLCA for awile , and have to say about the only reason i have kept up on my dues is for the Trails , I do enjoy the LCML and it has helped me out on some things but latley its been , like a war zone , the problem with the TLCA just like any car club or whatever club is that it's the 100/20 rule 20% do 100% of the work then , when something happens the masses complain, of course most of them wont step up to the plate to help but they sure can bitch , I was Prez of our local TLCA club here in Washington last year and part of this year , i just got burned out on being one of a few that planned anything while the others couldn't even commit to coming to a meeting , i have stepped down from that postion and rejoined the club that i joined when i first started into organized four wheeling there a all type of rig club but dont have half of the bs that the other club does , I do like the trails and hope that it will continue into the next year the quality mag, that it has become , Something a lot of people have forgotten in the quest to grow bigger in the TLCA relm , this is most peoples hobbie , some have made it there way of a living but for lots of us , we do this for our fun time , and i think that people need to just chill and quite fighting each other and start fighting the Tree huggers because in the end when we loose all of the places to wheel , there will be no right or wrong fighting in our own club's because we wont have any place to go to enjoy our sport , thanks
Robb [pre][/pre]

[pismojim]

I haven't "had it" but I do wish the TLCA would focus on Land Cruisers. I'm having a hard time recommending people join these days.

Keep it simple, keep it about Land Cruisers. Leave the rest of the BS for campfire chats. Seems like some folks are more into the process than the subject matter.

Bylaws - boring.
Legal BS - boring.
Sanctioned/Non-sanctioned events - who cares?
Land use - leave it to Blue Ribbon or Treadlightly

TLCA - Land Cruisers, period.

Keep it simple and the cruiserheads will come.

[PHAT MAX]

TLCA - Land Cruisers, period.

Keep it simple and the cruiserheads will come.

that makes a lot of sense, but that would be the smart thing to do.........

[cruiserrg]

Keep it simple, keep it about Land Cruisers. *Leave the rest of the BS for campfire chats. *Seems like some folks are more into the process than the subject matter.

Bylaws - boring.
Legal BS - boring.
Sanctioned/Non-sanctioned events - who cares?
Land use - leave it to Blue Ribbon or Treadlightly

TLCA - Land Cruisers, period.

I felt compelled to chime in here because of the comments above. Leaving Land Use up to someone else is the reason we as a 4wd user group are loosing public land to wheel on. It goes back to what someone else posted about the 100/20 rule, the majority of people do the work and the rest reap the benefits. Although I disagree on the numbers... its more like 5/95 5% of the people carry the other 95% in the world. Everyone needs to be involved in this.

The other stuff can be boring, but are needed to keep an orginization that is volenteer based afloat.

Lastly, don't leave out the Toy Pickup crowd, we are members too!

[pismojim]

I felt compelled to chime in here because of the comments above. Leaving Land Use up to someone else is the reason we as a 4wd user group are loosing public land to wheel on.

I'm glad you chimmed in. &nbspon't get me wrong I'm a member of Blueribbon and Treadlightly. I go to Forest Service meetings and have been known to write a letter now and then. I don't leave it to others. But, there are plently of forums for these issues.

Having the TLCA support these groups might be fine by me. BUT, what if other TLCA members are green? Or they only restore vintage cruisers for driving on the street or whatever. Maybe they even belong to the Sierra Club or voted for Clinton! Is the TLCA only for people who share the land use adgenda? Is it polictical or is it about Land Cruisers AND Toyota Trucks?

My thought is that by focusing on the vehicles membership might go up and contraversy might go down. The TLCA isn't there to save the world or preach some agenda, it's about trucks.

As for the other stuff needed to keep an orginization that is volunteer based afloat, you're right, it is needed. Sometimes it seems like it becomes the most important part of the association. Sorta the tail wagging the dog.

Lastly, don't leave out the Toy Pickup crowd, we are members too!

Only in my writing by mistake, I love you guys too.

[cruiserrg]

pismojim,

Thanks for the reply and clarification. I was a little jumpy because I got back from the Midwest 4WDA and Wisconsin 4WDA meetings and was frustrated by how few people put effort into landuse and other issues.

I would agree that the TLCA's main focus cannot be landuse because of the other Associations mentioned that are focused on it. But on the other hand the TLCA should at least pass on alerts from BRC and Unite 4WDA and the like to get more response from those in the TLCA that are interested.

I also agree that the vehicle membership should be the main focus and drive the Association. The other issues you mentioned are important and have been getting too much attention and leaving us Cruiser and Pickup owners left behind. I agree less with needing less attention on those areas, Bylaws, legal, sanctioned events and the like.

[pismojim]

No Sweat, Cruiserrg, I think we're on the same page.

The TT is so great becuase it's 99.9% cruisers and trucks. Pictures, trail reports, wrenching, mods it's all GOOD.

Take the TT away from TLCA and what do you have? Especially if you're an independent member.

There aren't near enough events or places to sign up new members. I'm kinda dumb about this, but my understanding is TLCA is an Association of local clubs. The locals clubs are the real "face" of TLCA putting on the events and recruiting new members. Since I'm not in a local club I wish the TLCA parent would do more. I'm curious what the percentages are of independents and club members.

I thought the TLCA supported the local clubs, but then again it sounds like it's the other way around too.

Sorry for rambling on...

[woody]

IMO, TLCA does as much/more for the individual than the local clubs. As someone who is in one Cruiser club, one "open" local club, plus my state organization, I get no additional benefits from TLCA beyond the TT...and frankly, lots of BS politics I wouldn't have to deal with as an individual member.

One of the big issues is communication. It's not that the TLCA board doesn't have it, it's just too easy to hide behind your keyboards on the BodReps maillist or behind your phone during the call-in meetings.

I would much prefer TLCA modeled their business/board operations after UFWDA - yearly face-to-face meetings, combined with a trail event, and then rely on the officers to do what's in the best interest of the organization. The problem is the current model for commnication evolved from the initial development of TLCA in California, whre clubs were relatively local. TLCA has slowly spread east, but frankly has done a poor job IMO of effectively making those eastern clubs feel "at home" in the organization.

[cruiserrg]

I totally agree with Brian. Even though I am in a TLCA affiliated club, it doesn't feel like it. I don't see much real benefit to belonging to a local TLCA chapter, other than the people you meet.

[JasonH]

I have only one comment on this thread...

but I did have a Pirate4x4.com decal (and Lone Star club decal) on my rig.

Kick ass!

Jason Harsch
Lone Star Land Cruisers
TLCA 8123

[woody]

he also had a ih8mud.com sticker on there....see the index page!

Hate to say this, but unless I decide to attend a TLCA sanctioned event in 2003, my membership will lapse.

[74cruzah]

I too may not renew my membership, although I am fairly new to the cruiser scene (only had my 74 fj40 for 3 years). But, in that 3 years I have never been approached by a local chapter although I have sent numerous emails and every year that I have renewed have checked the little box that says to have the local club contact me. I realize that isn't the TLCA's fault, but rather local clubs. I do enjoy the trails though and I have never even been to a sanctioned event, mostly because by the time I know about them they are over. Poor communications, the list hasn't had a lot to add to my cruiser knowledge, pretty much hang out at the pbb.

[ledge]

I have to say that reading this list has concerned me. I am new to LC's, rebuilds, and have only gone four wheeling in other peoples trucks. I was kinda hoping that TLCA would be a good place to get more info, and maybe learn some stuff. After reading all of this and considering how much time I spend reading stuff from people that have experience like the people on this forum (only a couple of days, and I have learned a ton), I am not sure that I would actually get anything great out of joining. Am I just seeing the negative side of things, or is this pretty close to the way things are?

Ledge, Mosca CO
'73 FJ40 -in need of help

[Thom]

My opinion is that you should join up for a year and evaluate it yourself. You'll definitely enjoy the magazine and probably meet a bunch of great people if you have a local chapter. If you're dissatisfied after a year, don't re-up.

I've met Mike Smythe and he's a super-nice guy who's willing to share his knowledge with anyone who asks. And that's typical of most TLCA members that I've been around. If you don't at least try it for yourself, you'll never know.

[Gumby]

Mike,
Sorry you took offense. Perhaps if you posted a reply to the LCML or even PBB I would have seen it and been able to reply. Mike is much more tolerated on the Pirate board as climberMike than he was on the LCML as poMike. The POR board is the best place on the web for real wheelin information, even better than Ih8mud (sorry, woody), but every other thread has a foul-mouthed rant somewhere in it. That's kinda the way it is in that format, but Gary worked really hard years ago to keep that stuff off the LCML and I appreciate it, even if he was often heavy handed and went overboard on occasion.
Personnaly, I like the POR. I read it every day. I sure do laugh a lot more than when I read the LCML, but you have to tolerate a lot more of guys like Mike.
If you want a real laugh, check out his post on the 80 list "what if Mike Held was Santa Claus".
Again, Mike, i'm sorry you took personnal offense. It wasn't meant as a holier-than-thou slam on the POR board. I'd of sent this to you in person, but I'm not sure how to get your direct address yet.

Todd Ballard
74 FJ-40 350, 35 BFGs, bunch of other stuff
95 FZJ-80 the usual stuff
83 mini flatbed

I guess Im alot simpler in my bitches,
Im pissed that I get a renewal notice with an overdue issue and send it right in to miss the next month.

Im pissed that I get attitide when I try to explain it to the membership office

Im pissed that the "lady" in the office doesnt give a shit that the issue went out late for whatever reason - thats their problem anyways.

Im pissed that the buddy I talked into joining hasnt receive One single issue and when it was supposed to be remedied-never was.

Im pissed that every vendor I have asked about discounts, no longer did them for one reason or another.

BUT Im greatful for the internet info out there (thank you LCML, Woody, Pirate) and with all this info the trails can bite me.

[Texican]

I'm getting on in years and patience, I don't put up with petty bullshit well.
This crap with TLCA is really getting old quick.
I joined TLCA a long time ago, 1997, before I got Internet. At that time it was my only source for info and contacting other Cruiserheads. That has changed, I joined with 3 or 4 other Cruiserheads and we have a large Cruiser club now, in fact the 2nd largest in the TLCA.
I'm at the point to where I could care less as to what they do.
If it keeps on like it has in the past 2 months it would not surprise me if Lone Star Cruiser Club bails totally.
Butch Baker

[fj40charles]

I'm also tired of the bickering and lack of control over a particular "delegate" who has literally raised hell and caused some people to resign from the TLCA. I think they need to strengthen the bylaws so they can control these "problems"

I think the only thing I'll miss will be the TLCA mags and the TLCA sponsored rides. However, before I got into Land Cruisers, I was wheeling with a club that had all kinds of 4x4's and we had just as much fun wheeling and hanging out.

I'm still undecided about renewing my membership and will watch and see how things progress in the next few months.

It is very sad to see all of the hard work going down the tubes because of one bad apple.

I love my LC as much as anyone else, but I refuse to be part of an organization that cannot control its problems.

Charles

We should all stay with TLCA. There is light at the end of the
tunnel. I can't wait to see Todd's version of TT. Local clubs
are great, and I'm in one, but TLCA can provide a common link.

[theferg]

I wanted to say that I feel badly for the new members who asked to be contacted and weren't. That's just wrong--but I don't think it could be all of TLCA's fault. What about local members? They have to be pro-active as well. It's funny, I have been into wheelin' and rockin' for almost 6 years now and I have had my cruiser almost 2 years now and I am not a member of any local clubs, but I have been contacted several times by members of the local cruiser club to invite me to come out wheelin' with them. They were active on various forums and when they looked at my posts, they noticed that I was near their area. I definitely appreciated that but declined for personal reasons (I didn't feel my rig was in the shape I wanted it to be to go wheelin' with them...but they still wanted me to come...) I have seen others invite newbies to come out several other times on forums. So, I don't know what I am really saying, just wanted to say that. And it would be terrible if the TLCA died because of lack of communication and such with members.

[TRT2]

Mike and other disgruntled folks...

I feel your pain!

the dissatisfaction you have voiced and others have agreed to has reared it's ugly head in the form of decreased membership. *Decreased membership has reared it's ugly head in the form of decreased budgets and an inability to move forward on important topics like TT Editor and TLCA website.

As frustrating as it is for you to not receive any issues, imagine how frustrating it has been to be involved at the board level and watch this going on without any ability to do anything about! *

but I am not going to sit here and point fingers or spend one more minute focusing on what 'has' taken place; individual actions or collaborative actions. *The damage has been done.
I have sent my goals to the Bodreps list and asked that each person reading them treat Jan 1st as more than the first day of the new year... but to treat Jan 1st as a new day for TLCA. *One of cooperation and focused effort on mutually agreed upon goals.... and what are those goals: *
Membership, Trails and events. *That is what TLCA should be about. *And if we stay focused on those three primary goals, we'll have a robust association that offers premier events and puts forth the most awesome solely Toyota oriented magazine around!

Already the association has heard the groans from folks such as yourself. *We have a new administrator... fresh, eager, enthusiastic and motivated. *Last years BOD tossed the one delegate who alone did more damage to our reputation and turned so many involved folks away. *While that action has not actually caused said delegate to cease, it has done more to unit volunteers in an effort to move forward on what is best for the association.

The goals that I presented to the Bodreps list also did more than quantify goals, it presented where I think we are. *In recovery. *That's right, it did not focus on growing or expanding, it focused on recovery, restoring the bonds of friendship and trust and in turn, restoring membership by restoring faith in our members... members such as you.

It won't be easy... and nothing I say will probably get you to rethink your position... I can't say as I blame you. *But for those on the fence about renewing... or those who are thinking about joining for the first time, please understand that the 5% who volunteer their time and effort have heard the complaints and witnessed the faults and are committed more than ever to move forward in a positive manner, to make sure that the only Toyota specific organization remains solvent and active.

If we were on the trail, you wouldn't leave me busted and broke even if you didn't like the truck I drove... at least toss me a cool one and ask if I need help... and Mike, I do need help. *I need some faith and some patience, I need input and advice... and I need some forgiveness (spelling) and another opportunity to find the right line, now more than ever. *I'm not giving up yet.

You'll be receiving a letter from me along with at least 7 back issues because that is what you paid for, at the very least.

sincerely...

Tony

[Kaderabek]

When I read that someone like Mike Smythe is bagging the TLCA I become motivated to bring him back. I've wheeled with Mike and can say he's the sort of member the TLCA needs, now more than ever. Level headed, Cruiser savvy, and wheeling like there's no tomorrow.

That said, Mike's a big boy and makes his own decisions. I figure the only way we win him back is with the leadership being shown by Tony and others, to which I give a standing ovation (hard to type, stand, and clap all at the same time -- try it now... see?). And of course I'll work my tail off to bring you all a Toyota Trails that you'll enjoy, learn from, and want to participate in, hopefully on time, every time. Perhaps this level of competency on the part of the TLCA BOD will help to bring guys like Mike back into the fold.

In the meantime, I'll bring you some back issues of Trails the next time I see you in Slade, Mike, and keep that 40 topside up every now and again.

TJK

[TRT2]

no need Todd...

my personal letter of apology and six back issues went out today.

After a few days (when I believe Mike has received the letter), I will post it here for everyone to read. There is nothing personal in it except my excuses, apologies and promises.

This is part of my first goal for TLCA during our year of recovery; rebuilding the trust among all Members and probably the first of many letters I'll be writing.

[SpaceGhost]

I'm confused........................

In the early part of this thread there are 2 Mike's posting/mentioned. Myself and Mike Held (?) aka Climbermike and pomike. We are very different individuals as I hope those that know me will attest.

Beyond my concerns about the TLCA, I had also grown weary of the nonsense on the LC mailing list (Gary Borjk's e-mail list by subscription). He never allowed the crap, yet it always appeared. Very damaging to the moral of those who were working to improve or as Tony stated recover the TLCA.

Then comes along a post (on the LCML) from Mike (climbermike) that irritates some folks. When a previous poster to this thread made reference to him being more welcome over on the Pirates board, I cashed it in. I took personal offense to the original comment, still do actually.

So for the many reading this, I don't think I am the only Mike being referred to here, nor should I be. Only one poster was on target when he mentioned he didn't intend to offend me. Since he is the one that made the reference on the LCML.<