Why does TLCA exist?

[timbercruiser]

I joined to get the magazine and to associate with other cruiser/toyota 4x4 owners. I fall into the 3/4 that has never been to an event (too far) and has no local cruiser club (too far). But I do wheel!
I'm satisfied with what the association is currently doing for me.

[Trollhole]

Originally Posted by timbercruiser

I joined to get the magazine and to associate with other cruiser/toyota 4x4 owners. I fall into the 3/4 that has never been to an event (too far) and has no local cruiser club (too far). But I do wheel!
I'm satisfied with what the association is currently doing for me.

The fact you are on mud should make you a member not a subscriber. I would think anyone who frequents mud would be put into the TLCA member side.

Hey now there is an idea. Why not have Woody set up a TLCA MUD club. Kind of a vitual club. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have any problem finding 6 members that are TLCA members. He could charge a nominal membership fee and use 100% of the money to go towards TLCA MUD events. Heck I bet even some of his vendors would be willing to thow in some stuff to help promote the MUD club.

Plus if said MUD club ran like any other club you could have volunteers plan the events. Also the TLCA Mud club could get covered under the TLCA insurance policy.

[Bodean]

You can forget the TLCA ever running the local clubs. I know we would get out of the TLCA if that were on the table.

Later,

[Romer]

Originally Posted by Trollhole

How about TLCA take up handling local club membership, finances, media and web (to a certain extent). This would really give the clubs a reason to be part of TLCA. .

Not only No, but Hell no.

Imagine having a group of folks managing the money for your events. How responsive would that be to local land use issues, club needs etc. I cant raise a proposal and vote on it at the meeting because I then have to raise it to the TLCA explain it and get their permission.

Each club is unqiue and does things based on what its members want. And this means the Club needs to manage its own money or distrust, anger and resentment would develop towards the TLCA.

I am a paid up TLCA member through 2013 (Hope I live that long), but I would pull our club out before handing our finances over to another organization, any organization.

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by Romer

Not only No, but Hell no.

Imagine having a group of folks managing the money for your events. How responsive would that be to local land use issues, club needs etc. I cant raise a proposal and vote on it at the meeting because I then have to raise it to the TLCA explain it and get their permission.

Each club is unqiue and does things based on what its members want. And this means the Club needs to manage its own money or distrust, anger and resentment would develop towards the TLCA.

I am a paid up TLCA member through 2013 (Hope I live that long), but I would pull our club out before handing our finances over to another organization, any organization.

Everything he said and then some!

1. As a club, even my own club has a hard time sometimes reaching consensus on where we're gonna spend our $$, so there's no way in heck we're gonna hand that control off to anyone else.

2. And like Bodean hinted at, NO ONE in ANY club will be satisfied with the redistribution of wealth from the national level. Just like the 50 states squabbling over every federal entitlement, but more like a knife fight!

I would like to point out tho that this isn't one of the suggestions thats been beat to death for the last five years, so props just for putting something 'fresh' out there to beat on!

[best Bodean face on]

Later!

[wngrog]

Originally Posted by Romer

I would pull our club out before handing our finances over to another organization, any organization.

Although I agree with you, I was wondering if the title Commander would allow you to "pull your club" or if you would have to get agreement from the rest of your crew?

[Trollhole]

Guess I should have explained it better. Wasn't meaning they would manage the money in the accounts just manage the setting up and getting Bank cards out. Clubs could do what ever they wanted with the money and all information would be private.

All they would do is give one or two people the ability to manage the accounts. Think about how many treasurers that have come and gone within the clubs. Not to say that job would ever go away but it would make it a lot easier for them.

Think of it as a concierge service. TLCA provides the ability for clubs to set up private banking, discounted merchandise production, web design and promotion, etc...

Just ideas. Just trying to find more ways TLCA can provide more value to it's members.

[Romer]

Originally Posted by wngrog

Although I agree with you, I was wondering if the title Commander would allow you to "pull your club" or if you would have to get agreement from the rest of your crew?

It would be a vote, I dont get to pull anything . . . well not that I will mention here. I was just stating my opinion, but knowing the club and their current attitude is important to effecively leading. I would bet that the majority of the club would agree with me.

The internet is sometimes a poor communication media as leaves the opportunity for others to read something that wasnt the intent of the author.

What I should have said is "At the very next meeting I would open a topic up for discussion related to handing our finanaces over to another organization. As always we would allow all to input there opinions and positions and then make a motion based on the discussion, discuss it some more, tweak it a bit, motion it again and then vote on it. At which time I would expect the motion and vote from the club would be to disaasociate itself from the TLCA if the requirement was to hand over complete control of our finances"

Too me thats equivelant to what I said, but just includes the details.

Originally Posted by Trollhole

Guess I should have explained it better. Wasn't meaning they would manage the money in the accounts just manage the setting up and getting Bank cards out. Clubs could do what ever they wanted with the money and all information would be private.

All they would do is give one or two people the ability to manage the accounts. Think about how many treasurers that have come and gone within the clubs. Not to say that job would ever go away but it would make it a lot easier for them.

Think of it as a concierge service. TLCA provides the ability for clubs to set up private banking, discounted merchandise production, web design and promotion, etc...

Just ideas. Just trying to find more ways TLCA can provide more value to it's members.

That would still leave someone not part of the club with acces to the money. TLCA is elected too. Who would do this who doesnt rotate in or out

I dont see how that benifits anyone.

I do appreciate the new and fresh idea, I just quite get it I guess

[Bodean]

Originally Posted by wngrog

Although I agree with you, I was wondering if the title Commander would allow you to "pull your club" or if you would have to get agreement from the rest of your crew?

No Shorty! We would vote on it but I know what that outcome would be. You better watch it or we will vote you in as "Commander".

[Rzeppa]

Good thread...still reading, not ignoring, just not posting a lot of replies :-)

[GLTHFJ60]

My pitch is still that the TLCA should integrate with MUD. Establish two types of TLCA members, "Members" and "Subscribers" with two different payment grades, one just for all the advantages of TLCA, including the mag, and then the cost of the mag subscription itself.

I should have talked to Woody about this at CMCC, but when I wasn't driving I was drunk and drying out socks. Not sure how much sense I would have made.

[Mace]

Originally Posted by Rzeppa

Hi Drew, thanks for being a TLCA member!



We don't have events that people want to attend? If so, then what events should we do that we aren't already?



Which issue of Toyota Trails hasn't been covering events?



We don't have enough event coverage on the web site?



People join TLCA for a lot of tangible reasons other than events.

Did you know that 3/4 of TLCA membership are not members of chapters?

Did you know that 3/4 of TLCA members do not participate in events, and most of those never will?

Did you know that some people join TLCA for their discount on parts from their participating Toyota Dealers?

Did you know that a large fraction of TLCA members join because they really like Toyota Trails, but will never wheel their Toyota 4x4?

In the big picture, events are very important, but they are not the most important thing for the majority of TLCA members. Can we change that? Of course.



In the real world, event income for TLCA has historically a very small fraction of TLCA revenue. Let us use Cruise Moab as an example. I have been on the committee for many years, and we are hugely successful from both a participant experience standpoint (most important in my view) and from a revenue standpoint. Cruise Moab typically has around a $30k budget each year. Out of that, we might clear $5-10k. TLCA gets 10%. That's $500-$1000 to TLCA. The rest gets donated to land use, and some is reinvested in the next year's event.

Best case, TLCA might have 6-10 events per year. Most events aren't as finacially successful as Cruise Moab, but let's play with numbers. If we had 10 events that netted $1000 to TLCA, that's $10,000 out of $250,000 budget. Nothing to sneeze at, but still only a small fraction of our revenue.

That's the math.



Jim's done a hell of a job, and has always been a huge TLCA supporter. But look above and do the math.



I can not disagree with you more on this point.



One can have tech questions answered by web wheelers and armchair amateurs with no screening or professional qualifications, or they can ask the pros at TLCA. On the free web, you might get the right answer, or you might get a completely wrong answer.



T4WDO is for a different demographic. The Peterson's type kiddie crowd. You want a bunch of fluff and hype, if that's your cup of tea, have at it. TLCA has always been for a more savvy audience.



No doubt, OJ is a nice non-Toyota specific magazine, and appeals to yet another segment of our demographic.



No doubt, Woody has created a nice community here and he has always been a huge TLCA supporter. At TLCA, we are not interested in competing, but we exist side by side with IH8mud and help each other out. Drew, I don't know if you were a Land Cruiser enthusiast and online back in the 1990s when when Woody was a frequent contributor to the Land Cruiser Mailing List and forums didn't exist yet. That was the internet age, and the archives were easily searchable...



As I mentioned above, we have a diverse membership in TLCA. The majority of TLCA members agree that our dead-tree publication, Toyota Trails, is enough to keep them. For those that don't, we have been offering member's-only content online, as well as the entire publication online.



Web sites are quite dynamic. When was the last time you went there? You might find a lot of changes we have implemented over the last couple months.

Thanks for being a TLCA member, and happy cruisin!

Jeff, do you realize that this entire post says "Your opinion is wrong and we know what is right.."????

[Pskhaat]

TLCA needs more events. Period.

Not just wheelin. Long distance overnight travel, education seminars, TLCA-blessed "How-To" DVDs, Toyota R&D interviews and webcasts, better integration with Toyota proper and a consolidated communication channel, international reach to other clubs. How can we break more even with other concepts of events and deliverables to the membership? TLCA's not about profit yes, but rather membership value.

[Pskhaat]

Originally Posted by Rzeppa

XXXXXX...appeals to yet another segment of our demographic.

With 3k out of 20k in terms of retention, we need to expand the concept of our demographic.

[shinton]

I am guessing TLCA simply needs to know what their demographic IS and then make sure Trails and their website (and/or MUD) caters to each. That is done by surveys / which are hard to get folks to fill out, but make it a "drawing" for something cool to get high participation.

I think you have the folks wanting to do restorations, hard core wheelers, expedition crew, and daily drivers. I am sure I am leaving out other core groups, but once you identify those, you make sure 1-2 articles is dedicated in each issue to those groups.

Why did I join / continue to... TRAILS is my #1 reason (thinking of getting the Toyota Owners mag too) I also subscribe to ALL the major newstand 4x4 mags.

I am ALSO a member of BlueRibbon, [UFWDA, SFWDA, Carolina TrailBlazers] and Olde North State Cruisers which is a TLCA member club.

I personally am leaning back towards restoration, I already have a wheeler, and thinking Lexus GX470 as my tow rig. You will have folks like me with multiple interests.

I have no issues with TLCA, but maybe that is because I not as involved yet. My dues beyond Trails, I believe are going to help out the "sport"

I guess that is all for me, just wanted to comment on this being a positive experience for me.

[edwjmcgrath]

Let me add my opinion as a newcomer. I discovered mud early on. Then I discovered my local group, Yankee Toys. Then I discovered TLCA. I8MUD has clear and obvious value to me. I joined and sent my paypal in.
YT seems to have some advantages if you're interested in local events, otherwise all of the communication and learning is on Mud. I have no idea what a TLCA membership would get me and I have no plans to join.

[woooody]

Originally Posted by edwjmcgrath

Let me add my opinion as a newcomer. I discovered mud early on. Then I discovered my local group, Yankee Toys. Then I discovered TLCA. I8MUD has clear and obvious value to me. I joined and sent my paypal in.
YT seems to have some advantages if you're interested in local events, otherwise all of the communication and learning is on Mud. I have no idea what a TLCA membership would get me and I have no plans to join.

I appreciate where you are coming from. For good or bad, it seems like TLCA is less relevant to the newer Cruiser owners, and more relevant to the "old timers". TLCA needs to find a way to make itself more relevant.

And I do agree that local club membership, and national club membership, is in many cases more about participation in runs and events. Web-wheeling is very easy at a site like ih8mud.

If you aren't participating in the local club events, then as it sits today, TLCA membership boils down to Totyota Trails magazine, and discounts at various vendors. However, some of those discounts will pay for the cost of membership.

We'd love to have you give TLCA another look. PM me your address, and I'll send you a copy of Toyota Trails, just so you can see what it is.

Thanks

[woooody]

Originally Posted by Pskhaat

TLCA needs more events. Period.

Not just wheelin. Long distance overnight travel, education seminars, TLCA-blessed "How-To" DVDs, Toyota R&D interviews and webcasts, better integration with Toyota proper and a consolidated communication channel, international reach to other clubs. How can we break more even with other concepts of events and deliverables to the membership? TLCA's not about profit yes, but rather membership value.

I like the idea of the long travel -- We have done a long trip to Moab the last two years for Cruise Moab. Everyone who went was a TLCA member, but it wasn't an official event. I know the Bay Area 80's guys do a trip to Death Valley as well. And then there is the Alaska Cruiser Trek.

The challenge would be to create something like that, but find a way to do multiple groups (or maybe just one? who knows?)