Membership Idea.... your feedback wanted.

[Clutchee]

Folks I wanted to see TLCA & non members feedback to this idea
Currently you pay yearly dues to the TLCA of 30.00 a year.
This gives you a TLCA number, dash plaque, Trails, and options to be able to goto TLCA events depending on their sanctioning.

What I'm wondering is should we broaden the membership option.........

Have various levels of membership:(these are ideas....ONLY!)
Basic-$20.00 year(TLCA number,no issues of trails,dash plaque,able to attend TLCA events)
Silver-$30.00 year(current membership status)
Gold- $95.00 year (all the above & one TLCA event registration included)
Land Use Member $300.00 year(maybe majority of this would goto UFWDA or BRC
Broken Birf- $500.00 Lifetime membership (for your TLCA career you will not pay again)
Iron Butt Member $2500.00 Lifetime member & no registration fees ever to TLCA events


Folks I'm just trying to get folks thinking about the TLCA & how they would like to PARTICIPATE in it...... if you could taylor your member ship & help the TLCA & make it also go to the part you use or would like-------it would be better for everyone.

For me & my family...... we usually goto 3-6 events a year....... if I could have a member ship where I paid my TLCA dues & also didn't have to worry about registration fees it would rock.

Again just trying to get the hamsters moving in folks brains

[Dawg13]

I belong to quit a few clubs/organizations in this manner, lifetime memberships (Harley Owners Group, American Quarter Horse Association, Fishing clubs, etc…) and I love the easiness of it.

[woody]

I personally don't like the 'land use' portion....not that there is anything wrong with land use, but IMO folks should be putting those dollars directly to the organization of their choice and not into TLCA to be filtered thru.

The 'event' portion is tough...mostly cause events are paid for by the local club and not by TLCA...those fees are generally set to cover a club's expenses. I'd also be afraid that a 'event' member would expect priority in registrations OR the ability to just 'show up' unregistered. 'well, I AM a lifetime TLCA member with full event privileges, whattayamean I can't participate in Cruise Moab?'

Like the 'lifetime' idea tho, and a Trails/noTrails breakdown...

<devils advocate....>

[Clutchee]

Thanks for the feedback fellows, just what I wanted to hear.

Woody I understand & agree looking back now, just thought it MIGHT get TLCA more $$$ towards land use.

Keep it going folks.

[abclin]

good ideas and your on the right track. maybe with that cheapo membership have access to a digitized version of the Toyota Trails magazine with a password issued by TLCA when you renew your membership to access the digitized version which would vanish to cyber space when the next issue was published, conversely the higher paid memberships would be issued same type of personal access # to enjoy the magazine until they receive their postal copy to enjoy on the porcelain throne

[65swb45]

Clutchee, I think the tiered membership [electronic vs paper] member classification is definitely gonna happen at some point. Idea's been floated around for a while now. From what I can remember, a few simple issues. [Alan Loshbaugh did a good job of concisely running these down last year, which is why I remember it!]

1. Setting the cyber-version rate. What's an electronic-only copy worth?
2. Making the e-copy 'secure.' If one guy can file share it with 10 of his buddies, we lose. I don't know squat about making files 'view-only', but there are plenty of good folks here that might. Perhaps we can direct them to our webmaster for some private discussions on moving this issue forward.

3. The print copy still has a MINIMUM press run. If we offer an electronic version and a lot of folks switch over, then we've got even less $$ to pay the bills for the print copy. Capiche? We might have to bump print membership to $50, $60, or higher to cover the loss.

I don't think the GOLD or LIFETIME options are complete non-starters. GOLD and LIFETIME members would still have to register ON TIME like regular folks with event chairmen [and women], and the clubs could easily notate that member's ID number on their 'smaller' donation back to TLCA.

TLCA also has the ability to barter pre-paid registrations against insurance premiums, as far as that goes.

Thanks for starting this thread. I think this discussion is general enough to address 'in public.' There are other aspects of our plans and ideas that I think should stay on BODreps for now.

[TRT2]

I think the idea has merit.

[Rzeppa]

Originally Posted by TRT2

I think the idea has merit.

Some of these ideas have been around a while, a few of them are GOING to happen, and others may be impractical (such as event registrations). But keep the ideas comin'! I love the passion that has been going on here lately! I reply in more detail when I have a bit more time. Happy cruisin'!

[TRT2]

ya, the levels provided need more discussion of course, but the idea has merit, especially that Cheapo with no trails level, and the multi year Premier Deal.

You guys are on the right track... and the key... make it easy! Easy to sign up, easy to join, easy to ask questions, and easy to get answers.

As soon as something gets difficult, folks say forget it, I'll drop my coin on something else.

but you knew that already...

[Trollhole]

Originally Posted by Clutchee

Folks I wanted to see TLCA & non members feedback to this idea
Currently you pay yearly dues to the TLCA of 30.00 a year.
This gives you a TLCA number, dash plaque, Trails, and options to be able to goto TLCA events depending on their sanctioning.

What I'm wondering is should we broaden the membership option.........

Have various levels of membership:(these are ideas....ONLY!)
Basic-$20.00 year(TLCA number,no issues of trails,dash plaque,able to attend TLCA events)
Silver-$30.00 year(current membership status)
Gold- $95.00 year (all the above & one TLCA event registration included)
Land Use Member $300.00 year(maybe majority of this would goto UFWDA or BRC
Broken Birf- $500.00 Lifetime membership (for your TLCA career you will not pay again)
Iron Butt Member $2500.00 Lifetime member & no registration fees ever to TLCA events


Folks I'm just trying to get folks thinking about the TLCA & how they would like to PARTICIPATE in it...... if you could taylor your member ship & help the TLCA & make it also go to the part you use or would like-------it would be better for everyone.

For me & my family...... we usually goto 3-6 events a year....... if I could have a member ship where I paid my TLCA dues & also didn't have to worry about registration fees it would rock.

Again just trying to get the hamsters moving in folks brains

I had looked at this a while back and never really gave it any thought until today. Especially since in the past we have done smaller events and usually everyone is already a TLCA member. But now with us hosting GSMTR it really hits home. Because there are quite a few people who want to come to the event but just cannot afford to pay a full membership. It's the TLCA name that also gets us. As most just think it's for LC's only.

As much as I hate to say this I really think TLCA needs to change their name. Maybe make it TTA. Toyota Trails Association. By doing so the local clubs would have a better chance of attracting more potential members.

I really think this needs to be discussed more.

[packman73]

The tiered membership levels is being discussed by the BOD. The name change has been brought up several times and it typically comes back to the same thing, we need to respect our roots. Personally, I'm an advocate for a name change, but that and .45 will get you a cup of coffee...

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

I think the name change might help if it was a unanimous decision by all the members But I don't see it happening. Too many die hard cruiser heads have too much time and effort tied up in the organization, and I think a forced name change would alienate many of them and cause a mass exodus, thus doing the opposite of what we want it to...

As a 4Runner owner, I want to say that the name doesn't bother me one bit! And if a mini-truck/4Runner/Tacoma owner can't get passed the name, they are probably not TLCA material. Yes we need to make a better effort to show that the club is open to all 4x4 models, but I think a name change only looks good on paper...

[packman73]

Originally Posted by 2ndGenToyotaFan

I think the name change might help if it was a unanimous decision by all the members But I don't see it happening. Too many die hard cruiser heads have too much time and effort tied up in the organization, and I think a forced name change would alienate many of them and cause a mass exodus, thus doing the opposite of what we want it to...

As a 4Runner owner, I want to say that the name doesn't bother me one bit! And if a mini-truck/4Runner/Tacoma owner can't get passed the name, they are probably not TLCA material. Yes we need to make a better effort to show that the club is open to all 4x4 models, but I think a name change only looks good on paper...

I agree, it's just not going to happen, that's one of the reasons I haven't pushed it.

We do have a couple of membership programs that we are going to be starting soon, so stay tuned.

Thanks to everyone for their continued support of the TLCA!

[ginericLC]

Originally Posted by Trollhole

But now with us hosting GSMTR it really hits home. Because there are quite a few people who want to come to the event but just cannot afford to pay a full membership.

If they can't afford the $30 membership they probably don't have any business attending an event. Heck, they probably don't have any business owning a Land Cruisers. This isn't a cheap hobby. $30 to be a member isn't that big of deal in the scheme of LC ownership.

[ne715]

Originally Posted by ginericLC

If they can't afford the $30 membership they probably don't have any business attending an event. Heck, they probably don't have any business owning a Land Cruisers. This isn't a cheap hobby. $30 to be a member isn't that big of deal in the scheme of LC ownership.

Now them be some fighten words. I own an old FJ40 and I don't have a lot of money and it has been a 10 year project with a little money in it here and there. So because I don't have a $100,000 dollar a year job, or able to go out and buy a $45,000 Land Cruiser doesn't give me the right to own one or go to events? I would pay the $20.00 membership fee, and not get the Trails magazine. The magazine doesn't apply to my application, so I'm not interested.

It is egomenical, self centered, better than thou Land Cruiser owners like this that so far has kept me from formally joining the TLCA. I don't want to be stereotyped in that class.

Rant off!!!

Pam

P.S. I like this idea of different levels.

[Clutchee]

Originally Posted by ne715

P.S. I like this idea of different levels.

Thanks
This is the type of feedback I wanted the TLCA BOD to see..... maybe folks wanta be part of the masses but on different levels & $$$.


Lets keep your thoughts going

[LDowney]

Originally Posted by Trollhole

... Because there are quite a few people who want to come to the event but just cannot afford to pay a full membership. ...

A few years back when I was member of the Ga Cruisers chapter, we hosted the Toyota Mountain Challenge at Tellico. We had a core of members that complained about the cost of paying the event registration fee ($45 or what ever it was then). The BOD took this serious and tried to work with these members. When the event arrived, these members were the first in line for raffle tickets and were buying $100 at a crack. Since then I am skeptical about such claims because the individuals that I typically saying this have the appearance of being flush with cash for other things that are a priority for them. Granted; my experience base is limited here, but I would be cautious before making changes on this basis.

Originally Posted by ginericLC

If they can't afford the $30 membership they probably don't have any business attending an event. ... This isn't a cheap hobby. $30 to be a member isn't that big of deal in the scheme of LC ownership.

I certainly agree with these points. In fact, the risk of breakage on a trail ride is always there. If you break the wrong component and it has to be fixed for the drive home, that will probably mean laying down some serious coin immediately. A TLCA membership and/or an event registration may wind up looking small in comparison. If you can not afford the risk, then maybe you should not elect to take the risk?

Originally Posted by ne715

Now them be some fighten words. I own an old FJ40 and I don't have a lot of money and it has been a 10 year project with a little money in it here and there. ...

It is egomenical, self centered, better than thou Land Cruiser owners like this that so far has kept me from formally joining the TLCA. I don't want to be stereotyped in that class.
...

In owning Land Cruisers for over 19 years, I have only encountered one Cruiser owner that comes close to your description. I hope you look further because I think you are running into the exception rather than the rule in the Cruiser community. Good luck with your FJ40 project.

[Trollhole]

What I'm getting at. I join UC then TLCA. I pay 30 for UC and 30 something for TLCA. If I want to go to a Southern event I have to pay 40. Thats 100 dollars a year. Crazy.

I'm sure Southern members look at it the same way. If we could talk to some of the bigger clubs and come up with some sort of fee agreement with limited services it would be a win win for all.

[LDowney]

Marshall,
Good point. I am actually viewing it from the opposite direct;
We join TLCA and then we elect to join an affiliated chapter (UC in your case) of our choosing.

My first thought was maybe the chapter option should be no annual fee and local fund raising cover any chapter costs incurred. However, this would probably not work because the costs of running a chapter should be distributed across the membership of chapter to be fair rather than only the members that support the fund raising activities. This leads right back to where we are.

How do we break the mold and generate new options? Brian was hitting at this point in his original post and started this discussion. My suggestion is to approach it via requirements definition. First we need to define the requirements (key performance parameters) and goals. Once that is defined, a solution can be developed to meet these requirements and implemented. If no requirements are defined, the offered solutions will be all over the map because everyone is working to different requirements (& priorities). The original founding of the TLCA and each chapter probably went through process this to some extent which lead to the by-laws for these organizations. Maybe that is the starting point ... reviewing the by-laws for relevance and where gaps may now exist.

Sorry, but I can't shake my enginerd nature even when it comes to the Cruiser community.

[Rzeppa]

Originally Posted by ne715

Now them be some fighten words. I own an old FJ40 and I don't have a lot of money and it has been a 10 year project with a little money in it here and there. So because I don't have a $100,000 dollar a year job, or able to go out and buy a $45,000 Land Cruiser doesn't give me the right to own one or go to events? I would pay the $20.00 membership fee, and not get the Trails magazine. The magazine doesn't apply to my application, so I'm not interested.

It is egomenical, self centered, better than thou Land Cruiser owners like this that so far has kept me from formally joining the TLCA. I don't want to be stereotyped in that class.

Rant off!!!

Pam

P.S. I like this idea of different levels.

While still evolving, the short term direction we are more or less heading is two membership levels (for now, until we figure out a lifetime membership that we can implement and get the details sorted out) are:

(1) Full Membership: You get your printed Trails plus exclusive member's-only content on the web site We are currently implementing this. The member's only content is a combination of extra stuff that didn't make it into Trails due to not enough room, plus all of the current issue. Eventually it will be a page-flipping PDF e-zine as Alan had initiated, for now it might be either regular PDF or maybe html/php, we're still working on that.

(2) Online membership: You get all of the above except you don't get a printed copy of Trails mailed to you. This saves postage for us, and money for you, especially if you live outside the USA. Preliminary price point will likely be around $20/year.

The above 2 would still get your discounts at participating Toyota dealers, dash plaque, membership card, and eligibility to participate in TLCA Sanctioned and Hosted events. While brainstorming last night as I welded on my 76 FJ40 I thought maybe a discount on TLCA merchandise as well.

(3) Is that you aren't a member but could still get lots of good info on the TLCA web site, and a few teaser articles from Toyota Trails.

Comment: I have been making a lot of phone calls to expired TLCA members; one of the things that struck me was such a high percentage that have old school 40s.

All for now, more later. Happy cruisin'!

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by Rzeppa

Comment: I have been making a lot of phone calls to expired TLCA members; one of the things that struck me was such a high percentage that have old school 40s.

!

That is VERY interesting, but would probably end up hijacking this thread! [maybe take it to BODreps for discussion?]

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by LDowney

A few years back when I was member of the Ga Cruisers chapter, we hosted the Toyota Mountain Challenge at Tellico. We had a core of members that complained about the cost of paying the event registration fee ($45 or what ever it was then). The BOD took this serious and tried to work with these members. When the event arrived, these members were the first in line for raffle tickets and were buying $100 at a crack. Since then I am skeptical about such claims because the individuals that I typically saying this have the appearance of being flush with cash for other things that are a priority for them. Granted; my experience base is limited here, but I would be cautious before making changes on this basis.

I have seen EXACTLY the same thing, and more so. I've had to look at guys from across the counter that tell me they can't afford the parts to fix their steering and brakes turn around and ask me to sell them some bling accessory. I have actually kicked guys out of my shop for this! I could go on, but the point is, it really IS about priorities, just like you said. I"ve done my own share of whining about event costs and value, so I know from that standpoint too. I have a lot more friends in TLCA now, so I see more value.

While this discussion is going on in a public forum, I'm sure the BOD wouldn't mind seeing some imput on pricepoints for the e-zine membership vs the paper one. Having had a chance to look at the March-April TT, I think that more than a few peeps [myself included] can begin to see the merit in pushing that print-level membership up to $40 to maintain the level of TT we've become accustomed to.

[Rzeppa]

Originally Posted by 65swb45

That is VERY interesting, but would probably end up hijacking this thread! [maybe take it to BODreps for discussion?]

Official hijack: We (TLCA) have been super concerned over the years I have been around these discussions that the name puts off Mini/Taco/Runner/FJC members and potential members, and have been super-concerned with courting them and keeping them. Since the non-Land Cruiser Toyota 4x4s outnumber Land Cruisers by about a zillion to one TLCA should change and cater much more than we have. But during so many of these phone conversations, these folks either owned or used to own old school cruisers, and even the FJC owners knew where their rig's heritage was and it wasn't a problem.

I see where it's easy for many of our more prolific posters to write about where they think TLCA should go and what the name should be. I challenge each and every one to spend a couple dozen hours per month chatting on the phone with our members.

I don't suggest we alienate mini/Taco/4runner/FJC members at all, but my personal conversations with Joe TLCA member have not resulted in anyone saying that they thought TLCA was too cruiser-centric. Quite the contrary. I had a fellow tell me the other night ('08 FJC owner) that he wanted to see more FJ40 articles in Trails. Non-scientific poll is that we are doing fine in both our name and in how we embrace all Toyota 4x4s. And, you can't please everyone.

Happy cruisin'!

[Gappy]

I would be interested in a life time membership (w/ TT).

[wngrog]

Originally Posted by ne715

So because I don't have a $100,000 dollar a year job, or able to go out and buy a $45,000 Land Cruiser doesn't give me the right to own one or go to events?

Yeah, Vogt is just rolling in the dough as a teacher in Idaho :laughing:

Take it easy Pam. Eric has a point.

[Gumby]

Interesting conversation.

"If they don't have $30 to give us, then they don't deserve to be at the event."

This is an expensive hobby. Many of us have to budget. After fuel, registration fee, camping expenses and everything else, people are looking what can be cut, what's important, and what isn't. The question then arises, "what am I getting for this additional $30?" How is this event better for me because I am paying this fee?
If I pay for raffle tickets, I at least have a hope of getting something tangible for my money. What is the benefit for the driver to have the event a TLCA event? How is the event $30 better for me? It's the difference between sleeping in a bed or sleeping on the ground at some events.


The TLCA needs to define it's mission and let people know what benefit it is to them to be a member.

I appreciate everybody works hard, but that's not a reason for me to support it. You have to work hard with a purpose. I'm not sure what that purpose is anymore.

I am planning on attending my first TLCA event after 10 years of membership (that I don't know is still current, that's a problem the TLCA needs to address as well) I'm worried about costs and I'm worried about other TLCA requirements that will make it more difficult and expensive for me to attend. Will the event be that much better because it's a TLCA event?

[ne715]

Originally Posted by wngrog

Yeah, Vogt is just rolling in the dough as a teacher in Idaho :laughing:

Take it easy Pam. Eric has a point.

Sorry, ruffles my feathers a bit when someone implies that people shouldn't belong because of money. $30.00 isn't that big of a deal for some and a lot for others. It is an expensive hobby I agree, but if someone is planning a big trip where breakage is an issue, that should be planned into the trip budget. I have spent several hundred dollars on trip repairs before, but it was also budgeted for.

I have never been to a TLCA event, and would like to attend one in the furture, and like to have that ability with my paid dues. As I stated before the TT magazine doesn't interest me, especially the tech portions. Trail reports are fun to read though

I like the tiered idea:

1. Basic the $20.00 fee for folks like myself who aren't interested in the mag. I have enough 4 wheel drive magazines laying around. That also would like to attend a TLCA event. E-zine accessiblity would be cool.

2. Silver $30.00 fee for folks who want the mag, with the option of attending a TLCA event. Cool for those who enjoy the magazine.

3. Gold $95.00 with 1 TLCA event for those who are more accessible to TLCA events such as Rubithon is awesome idea.

4. Lifetime $500.00 for those who have been members forever, and plan to continue.

5. Iron Butt Member $2500.00 Lifetime member & no registration fees ever to TLCA events. This would be really great for those who have more access to TLCA events in their area.

I guess a few questions I have is, what is defined as a covered TLCA event? Does this include local club events that are considered a TLCA event? or does this only cover big ones like Rubithon and regional TLCA events?


Pam

[Romer]

The problem with the Iron Butt award and free registration to TLCA events is the TLCA doesn't put on any event except for Rubithon. Individuals clubs put on the events and the TLCA provides Insurance for a fee (discounted group rate for all events)

So if you pay the TLCA the Iron Butt Fee, None of that goes to the club forking out their own seed money, paying the bills and working the event.

We put on Cruise Moab and we do trade 1 or 2 registration certificates with other clubs as raffle prizes, but to give a bunch of "free" registrations would only result in raising prices for everyone else because the costs dont change and the TLCA provides no money towards the event.

I can see how some might think the TLCA actually fronts and sponsors these events, but they don't with the exception of Rubithon. And I want to mention the TLCA does a damn fine job with the Rubithon. It is a first class event that everyone should try and make at least once.

[ne715]

So gold and ironbutt would only cover the TLCA Rubithon event?

What about a coupon system? When you pay your dues for gold membership you get a TLCA event coupon. This coupon is presented at any TLCA sanctioned event, then the local club/chapter mails it back to TLCA for the registration fee payment for that event. For the Ironbutt the same system, but limit it to X amount of coupons a year.

Pam

[Clutchee]

Originally Posted by ne715

So gold and ironbutt would only cover the TLCA Rubithon event?

What about a coupon system? When you pay your dues for gold membership you get a TLCA event coupon. This coupon is presented at any TLCA sanctioned event, then the local club/chapter mails it back to TLCA for the registration fee payment for that event. For the Ironbutt the same system, but limit it to X amount of coupons a year.

Pam

Now thats a idea....... WAY TO GO.
Basically a coupon that the club could send in to TLCA & receive their money back for.


Now we are getting ideas.....