Just food for thought ...

[woooody]

Wow -- get busy with life, and you miss out on the good threads...

Kowboy -- I know you've been to Rubithon, not sure if you've been during Tony's tenure, but you are way off base with the criticism.

To add to what Tony said -- I think Rubithon only continues to function because the Board lets the Rubithon Chair run the event. When PMC, or Toys on the Rocks, or LA Trail Crew, or any other club volunteers, they are volunteering to help the Chair run the event. When individual members volunteer, they aren't going through TLCA, they are approaching the Chair directly.

If TLCA wants to start another "National" event, they need to work on the same idea, where one local member coordinates multiple clubs to help put on the event. You would need to find a site back east that could draw a large group. Get the local clubs to help out with trail runs, and organizing the event.

Recently the "Blue forum" has put on two FJ Cruiser specific events in Ouray, which have drawn out hundred of FJ Cruiser owners. People are attending from all over, as it is a very picturesque area. Do we have somewhere back east that could qualify?

I don't think you can "force" an event. It needs to be something people want to go to. Cruise Moab has matured through the years, but unless Rising sun is tired of hosting it, why would they give it up? Would a "GSMTR" or "CMCC" event want to give up local hosting for National TLCA backing? And the loss of that revenue to the club?

On the Admin issue -- If the contracts are up this year, perhaps it's time to advertise the opening, with a complete list of job requirements, and put it out to bid? Make sure that all expenses are defined, and see if anyone would bid less than what we are currently paying. Let the E-BOD then decide if we stay with what we have, or if we go with a lower bidder. I have no idea if anyone would be willing to do it for less, and I certainly would think it should cost more than it does.

[Chef]

Everytime you post that, I go look.
I've never seen it.
Not sayin' you dont see it, but, do a screen capture next time, and send it to Mark please?

thx-alan

new website coming thursday anyhoo...

Originally Posted by Kaderabek

And that banner up there still says Crusier....

TJK

[nuclearlemon]

Originally Posted by peesalot

Wait a minute Nuclear, your from Colorado. Were you sittin on that rock by Hatfields rig at Rubithon watchin me change my driveshaft, laughin. You guys made quite the peanut gallery.

Sorry, hi-jack off.

nah...would've loved to have gone, but until i'm more financially stable or i get rid of four or five rigs, i won't be doing much wheeling :(

[Hulk]

Originally Posted by Kaderabek

And that banner up there still says Crusier....

TJK

I still have the layered Photoshop file. It was my mistake, though it ran for months before anyone noticed -- I was no longer webmaster by that point. I could fix it and send it to Woody, if desired.

[wngrog]

There really is no reason to have the TLCA without Trails in my opinion. Without it, we would still have events, chapters and the like, it is just great having one thing in common.

I would not renew after my current 5 yr membership without it.

As for the Rubithon, I felt the same way until I attended. WOW, what a HUGE undertaking. We take so much for granted having our events right off the highway. They pull that off 5 miles off the road.

I too tried my hand at a BOD position (the revolving door that is the MVP position) and like Kowboy, the conference calls were so gay I just could not hack it.

Keep TT just as it is. If we can't afford it, I will put a group together to take it private. I think there is a much larger market for TT but as a newsletter it is great like it is.

[pismojim]

Originally Posted by woooody

To add to what Tony said -- I think Rubithon only continues to function because the Board lets the Rubithon Chair run the event. When PMC, or Toys on the Rocks, or LA Trail Crew, or any other club volunteers, they are volunteering to help the Chair run the event. When individual members volunteer, they aren't going through TLCA, they are approaching the Chair directly.

If TLCA wants to start another "National" event, they need to work on the same idea, where one local member coordinates multiple clubs to help put on the event. You would need to find a site back east that could draw a large group. Get the local clubs to help out with trail runs, and organizing the event.

Wow x2, I almost missed this thread...

Thanks for stirring the pot Kowboy! You have brought out the best of the best. I appreciate and respect everyone's efforts and opinions. Especially, those that volunteer their time and effort to the TLCA.

Rubithon is my favorite wheeling event by far. It is a great event because of MANY individual volunteers coming together under an effective and enthusiastic LEADER with full authority. (I hear the position is available.)

I attend Rubithon because it is a GREAT event. I don't mind that it generates significant financial support for TLCA. I purposely spend much more on raffle tickets than I do on TLCA membership. I fully support the TLCA and do not attempt to weigh the cost against my personal benefits. I'm glad it exists and support its mission.

Right now I'm happily working my third member off getting ready for Surf N Turf. I bring this up because SNT provides interesting insights into Land Cruiser enthusiasts and event dynamics. I'll spare you my philosophy, sufficed to say I have one. But please think about it because there are lessons to be learned from the phenomenon.

I'll leave with an open invitation for any and all TLCA reps to attend an event that is likely the largest Land Cruiser event in North America. Please join us and bring some membership applications, it's a target rich environment. We're expecting 300+ Land Cruisers and Toyota 4WD rigs most of which are not TLCA members.

Oh yeah, it's FREE, there's no registration, no "cause", no waivers, no committees, no BOD and... no whiners, just show up!

[TRT2]

The idea about having more Hosted events is not new. As with many discussions, it is an old subject discussed, tossed out due to apathy, and dredged up by someone new to be discussed all over again.

Ideas can be like shoes. They get tossed around a bit until they find someone whom they fit.

There can never be another Hosted event until someone (or some group) take the initiative to make it happen.

I wrote a whole bunch of stuff, but when I read it again, it said the same thing.

you cannot force an event like Rubithon. It has to come from the heart of many TLCA members working together for a common goal.

The first year Jeff Bomke and I hosted the McGrew Trail ride, we gave all our proceeds, all 1200 buck from a 28 member attendance run, to TLCA. Why? We did it to support TLCA. A couple years ago we did not give any. Nothing changed, we simply did not have the money.

However, I want to state one fact we all cannot forget... TLCA Rubithon volunteers like Ross and Pismo Jim (and so many more that show for Rubithon) are hard to find. Only by hosting an event can you sift through the masses to find jems. I consider myself lucky to call them friends.

(also Ross, I don't believe Kowboy was criticizing, he was making note that I failed to submit a budget or offer more board input, which has been brought up before. Its all good and I too need those reminders.)

[KOWBOY]

Originally Posted by TRT2

(also Ross, I don't believe Kowboy was criticizing, he was making note that I failed to submit a budget or offer more board input, which has been brought up before. Its all good and I too need those reminders.)

Indeed.

Please let there be no doubt Folks ... I fully support any TLCA event and any and ev'ry volunteer that makes it happen.

I look forward to The Southern Cruiser Crawl next weekend and it saddens me that I was only able to attend 3 TLCA events this year ... my worst par-ti-ci-pa-tion year in over a decade.

[nuclearlemon]

Originally Posted by KOWBOY

it saddens me that I was only able to attend 3 TLCA events this year ... my worst par-ti-ci-pa-tion year in over a decade.
:

heck...i'm lucky to make one every year and next year may make none

for those that haven't attended one, you really should try to catch one. they are great! excellent way to check out modifications, enjoy rigs of all flavors, get to know your fellow cruiserheads, if you haven't really wheeled, you'll find someone to help you learn the ropes, and if you're an old salt, you'll find someone to taunt you into doing something you've never tried before, then there's post wheeling.....you gotta attend to find out what a blast that is!

[Romer]

This year Rising Sun went to the Rubithon in mass. We know what it takes to host an event (Cruise Moab) and that what makes or breaks an event is the amount of volunteers to help run the event. Rising Sun is fortunate in that a large percentage of the club attend the event and they all help. Additionally, people from outside the club also volunteer on a yearly basis. We as a group (12 trucks 24 members) were impressed by the Rubithon event and will even bring back a few ideas to improve Cruise Moab. This is a well run event and I am glad we made the 2500 mile roundtrip to get there.
As a club, we enjoyed it so much we decided we would plan one outside event each year. Next year we are thinking of hitting the Blackhill’s event in mass. Who knows after that. A few of us were also fortunate enough to attend the first Flat Nasty event in 2006. Although at the time it was a little tight for 80’s, we had a lot of fun.
Rising Sun has become very successful over the years. The last few Presidents (Matt Farr/ Jeff Zepp) and now myself strive it’s more important to have fun then grow in membership. Funny thing is when others seeing your having a lot of fun, they want to join. We have increased from 30-40 members to close to 100 over the last 5 years. We hold plenty of wheeling events. We meet other neighboring clubs for wheeling trips. We host two TLCA events; Cruise Moab and the Rally. We setup group trips out of state (Rubithon, Glitter Gulch, etc). We also host non wheeling events. The northern group from our club has a breakfast get together on a regular basis. We have a dinner club where we get together, eat and drink and tell lies all night. We have Xmas parties, Picnics. We help members with repairs (wheel bearing packing parties) or educate them how to do stuff. We host HAM classes to help people become Licensed HAMs. After every meeting, we go to the local pub and sit around till they close. Our meetings are fun with a lot of camaraderie. Its organized, but not a business like atmosphere. The thing is, you don’t have to be a club member to participate in anything we do. There are other benefits for members with parts discounts at local dealers/vendors among other things. When we host an event, we don’t have to worry about volunteers because our membership is engaged, are friends and just enjoy being together.

I am a supporter of the TLCA, can we better, sure anything can. From our own local experience, success is based on making it fun and inclusive to be on the BOD and that will then flow down to the membership. I stopped being the club delegate, because it wasn’t fun and this is what I do to get away from my high pressure job.

We have a lot of vehicle types in our club: 40’s, 45’s, 55’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80’s 100’s, FJ’s, 4runners, minitrucks, custom buggies. I do hear the mini-truck and 4runner guys complain that they don’t feel part of TLCA. We need to a better job to be inclusive and make them feel a part of the club, after all we make them belong and they are TLCA members.

Kowboy did a lot during his tenure to make being on the BOD fun. His interactions and his meeting minutes where very enjoyable and they were published in a timely manner.

So my suggestions is to figure out how to make being on the BOD fun and that will lead to increased par-tic-i-pation. Think you cant do it? I am a Director of a product area at a large Defense Contractor. I sit down with my employees to ensure they are feeling challenged and enjoying their jobs and I set the tone with open communications and a positive attitude. People who enjoy their jobs perform better and stay longer. I have had employees turn down promotions in other parts of the company because they like what they are doing at the atmosphere they do it in. I try and bring that same attitude into play as the President of Rising Sun (like Matt and Jeff did before me) Surely (Don’t call Kowboy Shirley) we can do that in the TLCA. The suggestion to have the new BOD re-write their responsibilities is a great one, they will then “own” that job more because they helped define it.

More food for thought, pass the shiner Kowboy (Beer is food)

[hatfieldcb]

I went back and re-read this thread. Wow! Lots of good, healthy discussion and some great ideas.

Our little Rising Sun group had a fairly spirited discussion around the Coleman lantern at Rubithon one night about the health and vitality of TLCA. What I came away with was, through my Maker's fueled stupor, that helping the chapter clubs that needed it grow stronger would in turn help TLCA prosper. If the clubs are having more "fun", as Ken aptly described in the previous post, then it will be easier to attract new members which will, in turn, grow the ranks of TLCA. It's unlikely that anyone joins TLCA just because they hear about Rubithon. Most likely they have run across another Toyota 4WD enthusiast and they want to go wheeling. Going to regional or national events probably happens after they've been a member for a while.

So what I am proposing is the role of the IRs (or maybe one of the many VPs) be expanded to be responsible for maintaining a regular dialog with chapter representatives. Kind of a "health check" of the chapters. A little more active approach. The IRs spend some time getting a club started, but the only contact we have with existing clubs is requiring an annual Chapter in Good Standing form be submitted, and attendance at semi-regular BOD meetings. And it seems there is an awful lot of silence during those roll calls. Frankly there is no excuse for that. Maybe some clubs could benefit from a little extra support from the Executive BOD?

The other thing I would really like to see us do is get a little more help from Toyota. Surely they must know a customer might be interested in wheeling when they buy a 4WD vehicle. If they do then they could give the buyer a copy of Toyota Trails and contact information for the local chapter. Or maybe when they come in for parts. We made up a bunch of posters a while back, and talked about sending extra Trails to parts departments. I'm not sure we followed up on that effort. We've got a few contacts within Toyota. Why don't we try and use them. Start with dealers located near chapter clubs. This, too, will drive more potential members to the chapter clubs.

So, if we spread the word, locally, about the chapter clubs, and help chapter clubs prosper and have fun, they'll be able to keep more people that like to participate. After a while it almost becomes self sustaining. And as a by product TLCA will grow and prosper.

[Kaderabek]

Good input, Chris. I think it needs to be clearly defined as to who is the "we" who gets all this done though.

TJK

[hatfieldcb]

Originally Posted by Kaderabek

Good input, Chris. I think it needs to be clearly defined as to who is the "we" who gets all this done though.

TJK

Agreed. I think these ideas would help. I don't have the time or the energy, myself. It would take some effort to get it started. Maybe it would justify someone devoted completely to TLCA. For a while, anyway.

[packman73]

Couple of questions here that I hope some of you could shed some light on as I'm new to this organization and don't have the history that some of you do.

1. Why was TTORA started when the TLCA allows any Toyota vehicle with a transfer case to be a member.

2. What took place with the first FJ Summit in regards to the organizers asking us for insurance?

As the interim MSVP, and hopefully the elected MSVP (nothing is taken for granted) I really need to know WHY these folks have little to no interest in being part of the TLCA. (At last count, there were 400 FJC's that were members and less Taco's and Mini's).

As I stated in the last BODREPS call, a yearly TLCA membership is cheaper than a tank of gas. I understand some of the frustration and posts here on MUD in regards to the covers of non-Land Cruisers and the changes to the magazine that are more prevelant this year than last.

I really think the bottom line on all this is membership numbers. If we can increase membership (read double), we could then have a dedicated section each issue for 40/45, 55, 60/62, 80/100, Mini, Taco, and FJC (Hope I didn't miss anyone and offend, not intended). Granted, someone would need to write these columns...

Bottom line, this is a great organization, going through some turbulant times right now, however, this isn't the end. From what I've understood, we've been here before and we'll get through it just like we have in the past.

Kowboy, I haven't met yah, but I've heard stories and look forward to someday meeting you. I appreciate your comments and hope to take what's been generated in this thread and turn it into a positive for our organization.

Regards,
Art

P.S. In regards to additional national TLCA Events that aren't chapter specific, stay tuned.

[Kaderabek]

I'll speak to some of this.

I don't know specifically why TTORA was started but there must have been a void to fill. I do know that since I sold my 80 and bought my Tacoma, I have felt far less welcome at events when I bring my truck. Not by my friends, of course, but definitely by others. I had FJ Cruiser owners sneering at me at GSMTR two years ago. One even asked me if I planned to take "that thing" on the trails. Same event, I had a guy in nicely built Cruiser insist that he get past me on the trail so I "wouldn't slow him down." He slowed me down the rest of the afternoon.

I have a thick skin and can prove my truck on the trail but if I was a total newcomer, I'd have walked away from TLCA at that point. Especially when more welcoming places like TTORA exist.

So if you want to know why these folks have no interest in TLCA, I'd offer up three suggestions. 1) They don't know about TLCA. 2) If they find out about TLCA and approach us at an event, I bet they aren't always made to feel welcome. 3) They have other options.

I don't know anything about the first FJ Summit asking us for insurance but I can tell you that they brought almost 600 people and 287 FJ Cruisers to their event in Ouray last summer. That's pretty impressive for event #2.

I agree that one of the bottom lines is membership and I'd love to have 8,000 members. It would expand the possibilities for the organization in many, many ways. Related though and an equally important bottom line is revenue. We can't rely solely on membership for revenue. They are related but revenue should be far more diverse than mainly being derived from membership.

I sometimes get the feeling that we think we're better than these other clubs and are resting on our laurels. I tend to agree with the notion that we're only as good as our last success. We have plenty of success each year, that's for sure -- the events are a good example. But if those events never evolve, can we continue to consider them to be successful? Same with magazine. Same with the website. And very much the same related to membership. I think that if membership took a look back at 2008 and asked themselves as individuals, what did I do to make TLCA successful in 2008, many would find that they fell short.

TJK

[valkyrie610]

Very well said Todd, and right on the money.

TTORA came about because younger folks with less-deep pockets enjoyed camping, wheeling, exploring & wheeling and were searching for a club experience- to learn and share knowledge, to get together and build friendships... plain & simple.

However, for many, TTORA fell short of providing a 'true' club experience. This was mainly because it evolved as a great online forum, but the lack of commitment by it's forum membership failed to deliver on a local, grass-roots "club" experience. Delphi used to have about 40 Toyota off-road forums, separated by geography and degree of "hardcoreiness". Did anyone here even know that? Most of those forums have died over the past year, and their users have either:

1. moved on from the hobby completely
2. migrated to other forums (Mud, Pirate, 4x4wire, Toyota Nation, etc. or one of the ones discussed below)
3. traded up to an FJC and are now part of that hugely xenophobic group
4. or moved to a local level and keep their activities limited to that

The desire for a 'real' club experience and the "Land Cruiser" mystique drew many to investigate TLCA, but sadly in many cases the xenophobia drove them away.

The desire to participate in a local, active club that was genuinely inclusive of all types of vehicle owners that actively shared our interests is exactly what fueled TTR's success.

I think for a look at where the sport is heading, and to observe a truly respectful relationship between people that have similar interests amongst different vehicles, one needs to look no further than Expedition Portal. Local groups are organizing on there, and many of the TTORA/YotaTech/120 Owners and our fellow TLCA members are getting involved.

I don't have any wise recommendations, I wish I did. I can only offer my observations and hopefully spark some continued discussion.

• Maybe all TLCA is destined to be is a collector car club with a magazine and one or two events every year?
• Maybe it doesn't have to be all inclusive- maybe it should get back to it's Land Cruiser roots and not pretend to be something it's not?
• Who are the core members?
• What do they want?
• Are the xenophobes more the rule, or the exception?
• Is the prejudice going away, or just being pushed underground in order to make a buck?

I ask these seriously because TLCA was started to accommodate the wishes of a certain owner- so perhaps re-igniting that loyalty would be the best service to provide?

That would likely be a financially catastrophic blow to what the magazine and forum are now bringing in, but I am just looking at it from a membership POV. Lots of folks say they are cool with anyone coming in, but when it's time to put their money where their mouth is- are they?

Very interesting discussion- sorry I got so long-winded.

[peesalot]

Hi-jack, Kowboy, hows Butch and Nolen doin ?

[nuclearlemon]

Originally Posted by valkyrie610

. Delphi used to have about 40 Toyota off-road forums, separated by geography and degree of "hardcoreiness". Did anyone here even know that?

delphi? like delphi grundig? or is delphi someone's username?

[valkyrie610]

LOL! No, Delphi forums... most have gone off to VB forums now.

[KOWBOY]

Originally Posted by peesalot

Hi-jack, Kowboy, hows Butch and Nolen doin ?

Extremely well ... thank you.

Added a llama named Chico and a huge goat named Seth. The 3X's Ranch is prosperous these days.

Carry on.