This was the last straw for my dealings with the TLCA.

[jasond73fj40]

This was the last straw for my dealings with the TLCA.

Recently I ordered 2 TT collectors sets, I have been fully billed for them including 21.20usd in shipping costs.
Today I only received 1 of the set's.
On top of that I also had to pay a $33.77cdn in UPS brokerage fee's.

So this adds up to 33.77cdn UPS, + the 66.17cdn for the two sets for a grand total of $99.94 - and I only received 1 set.

I was a member of the TLCA (formerly #2058) but stopped because of overpricing for shipping. And now because of this I will never deal with them again.

Maybe its time someone at the TLCA looked at regular mail. If every other magazine can mail subscriptions, why cant they.

[ginericLC]

For memberships, TLCA does use "regular mail". TLCA uses a fullfillment house for merchandise orders, I imagine they are the ones who shipped it UPS. I know UPS really hoses Canadians on the brokerage fees. When I've sent parts to Canada I've always been told Fed Ex or USPS and to never use UPS. Did you call the Admin and tell her about your missing issues? That would be my first suggestion on getting some satisfaction.

[Chef]

You have pm from the TLCA President. I and our admin much prefer to deal with service issues like this directly rather than in a forum where we might never see your concerns. You'll get much better results that way.

thanks, sorry for your problems, and Jenn and I look forward to helping you resolve them.

[jasond73fj40]

I'm not finished raging, this is my response to the private message.

I sent a direct message to president@ & merchandise@ in addition to the shipper last night. Its my prerogative to air publicly when you have screwed me out of $50+ for shipping - so far.

Yes, I quit the TLCA in 2001 after having been a member for quite some time, my truck was even on the cover of TT once. Your shipping policy/charges being the reason. The club provides absolutely no other benefit to me/Canadians other than TT. At the time I stated that prices should be adjusted & shipping changed.
This is now even worse, and I must say shows gross incompetence of the club. If your shipper thinks that UPS is the best method they are plain stupid. I have had items larger & weighing more mailed to me from the US for a fraction of the price - not gouged.

So now what am I to do? When I get a second delivery from UPS am I to pay another $34 for brokerage?

My choice is pay the (possible) $34 (taking the total bill to $134) & get the second set, or refuse it, save the $34 but be screwed out of the item I have already paid for.

Toyota Trails in not even close to being worth $22 each.

[Chef]

I never got any direct mail from you Jason; sorry.
To date, TLCA has charged your credit card $21.20 for shipping and handling, and $36 for two collectors sets, for a total of $57.20.
If you wish to refuse delivery on set two and send it back, we'll certainly credit you back for that. We're not looking to "screw you out of items you've already paid for."

[jasond73fj40]

Yes, you are correct, 57.20 (about $66cdn), this is fine. But the $34 for UPS borkerage on top is killing me.
Why would I want to accept the second set for another $34?

I'm sorry but for $22 you could have US mailed these to me, I would have got them it good time & all would have been fine.

[Chef]

We don't use US Mail to ship because
1. It's completely unreliable 2. it still has to go through customs when you're
sending it as a parcel which these are & 3. our shipper uses UPS because
it is cheaper overall, we're not big enough to get discounted contracts
with the shipping giants, FedEx is too expensive, & we can track
everything sent via UPS which we NEED to be able to do when things get lost as they inevitably do.

[chet]

UPs brokerage has nothing to do with the TLCA. Take that up with UPS. There is even a class action lawsuit going on against them over rediculous brokerage fees.

[Hulk]

Jason, your e-mail was sent yesterday at 3:45 p.m. It looks like you waited a total of 4 hours before making the decision to go public with this.

I cannot speak to the customer service you received in 2001, but today's TLCA leadership team is very involved in providing excellent service to members, and even to former members such as yourself.

As you can see in this thread, you're receiving personal attention from the President and our Administrator. You may believe this to be a result of your public tantrum, but I can assure you this is not the case. The TLCA leadership team is very active in handling every complaint, issue, suggestion and problem.

The UPS charges do seem to be excessive. And obviously a mistake was made in shipping you only one collector's set. I feel certain that our TLCA team will resolve this error in an appropriate way.

If you are so anti-TLCA, why are you buying collector's sets anyway?

[jasond73fj40]

Seem to be a lot of focus on the 1 reference to my formerly being a member - I stopped because the exchange & shipping was to high. Actually my mom use to give it to me as a birthday gift, but when the price exceeded $65cnd I said enough.

UPS brokerage may not be under the control of the TLCA, but I'm still dinged as a result. I have had other UPS shipments without the fee.

US mail has been reliable enough for many other things I have received, valued far above the $16/issue for TT. Tracking is nice, give me the option for mail.

Yes I waited 4 hours, I'm the one out $100 bucks for 6 magazines.

You think I'm being unreasonable, Give me $100 bucks & I'll mail you the 6 issues back.



And I am not anti TLCA, I would love to be a member again. I was because of TT, I as a Canadian get nothing else.
I was proud to be a member, and a LC owner, you could figure this out from my profile.
I am was buying collector sets for myself & brother-in-law. We are fans of the mag, find it useful ...
I never had other issues, just swallowed the charges as part of being a land cruiser owner.

If any of you say you wouldn't be mad your are an outright liar.


jason

[woooody]

Jason

You bought 12 issues, not 6. You were most likely charged the brokerage on the value of the 12, not the 6.

Do you not have the ability to see what the shipping charges would be prior to checking out? If so, your gripe then boils down to this

1 -- You didn't get the full order.

2 -- UPS brokerage fee is high.

TLCA can look into #1 (and they are/have). On #2, we would need to find an alternative shipping method to Canada. Not sure what the feasibility is on that.

We can't give you $100, because we didn't get $100 from you.

There are Canadien TLCA chapters. How can yousay you get nothing else but TT?

Originally Posted by jasond73fj40

Seem to be a lot of focus on the 1 reference to my formerly being a member - I stopped because the exchange & shipping was to high. Actually my mom use to give it to me as a birthday gift, but when the price exceeded $65cnd I said enough.

UPS brokerage may not be under the control of the TLCA, but I'm still dinged as a result. I have had other UPS shipments without the fee.

US mail has been reliable enough for many other things I have received, valued far above the $16/issue for TT. Tracking is nice, give me the option for mail.

Yes I waited 4 hours, I'm the one out $100 bucks for 6 magazines.

You think I'm being unreasonable, Give me $100 bucks & I'll mail you the 6 issues back.



And I am not anti TLCA, I would love to be a member again. I was because of TT, I as a Canadian get nothing else.
I was proud to be a member, and a LC owner, you could figure this out from my profile.
I am was buying collector sets for myself & brother-in-law. We are fans of the mag, find it useful ...
I never had other issues, just swallowed the charges as part of being a land cruiser owner.

If any of you say you wouldn't be mad your are an outright liar.


jason

[Hulk]

Originally Posted by jasond73fj40

If any of you say you wouldn't be mad your are an outright liar.

I'd be mad as hell. I just would have dealt with it in a different manner. There are many of us who spend a good portion of our lives trying to make TLCA run efficiently and improve it. When you come out with both guns blazing, you're attacking us personally. It's not like you're dealing with a bored, unenthusiastic, minimum-wage CSR because your RCA DVD player crapped out after 100 days and the warranty was only good for 90. You're dealing with us, your friends, part of this weird little community.

FYI, since you're just looking for Toyota Trails, it now may be cheaper to simply join TLCA rather than order back issues. The current cost of a Canadian membership is $42.00 USD.

42.00 USD = 47.62 CAD

So for $48 Canadian, you can have every issue mailed to your door. That's $8 CAD each.

You can join here, if you decide to do so:
http://tlca.org/membership/

Obviously, you probably don't feel like joining today. But I'm sure that you'll have warmer feelings for us once we've corrected the missing collector's set in a manner that won't cost you a fortune.

[jasond73fj40]

You're right, you didn't get $100 from me, but that's what this has cost me.
When I get the second 6, without a second bill I'll update all to reflect. I have received an email from "TLCA Admin" saying they were being overnighted. I assume this means that the second 6 weren't lost in transit.

I know about the Canadian chapters, I'm a member, or maybe was after this rant, True North Toyota to be exact.
The TLCA memberships use to include insurance & some other things only good to US citizens - this is fine. This is what I mean by the only thing Canadians get is Trails.

And let me clarify:
This is way past the point I wanted it to go.
I am not trying to take personal shots at anyone in the TLCA. I have been a president of a non profit club, I know its a thankless job.
I am happy to see that the TLCA is concerned.

[ginericLC]

And you also have a Canadian Event now too! So you can belong to the local chapter, get TT, and attend an event even in your home country. The River Shiver is going on year 3 in 2007. And for the record, most TLCA members even in the US receive TT as their primary benefit. Many will never see a TLCA event. Many do not live in an area where there is a chapter. This is unfortunate but it is a fact. The folks volunteering at TLCA spend a lot of hours trying to make things perfect for all members. On our volunteer salaries and our volunteer hours we can only do so much. It is unfortunate when something like this happens. And I'm sorry you feel like you got screwed, but I don't think saying TLCA screwed you is exactly appropriate. UPS may have screwed you on customs and handling, but it wasn't TLCA.

[jasond73fj40]

The River Shiver would be about a 3 day (land cruiser) drive for me - a tad to far.

[Chef]

Jason, TLCA will be glad to refund whatever you spent *with TLCA* if you're not happy with what you got. We can't control the rest.
I emailed you this morning, as did our Admin, that the second set was being shipped seperately, at our expense for the expedited shipping. Again, we can't control Canadian brokerage fees.
Let me know if you want the money you spent with TLCA back, and I'll gladly make sure that happens.

alan

Originally Posted by jasond73fj40

You're right, you didn't get $100 from me, but that's what this has cost me.
When I get the second 6, without a second bill I'll update all to reflect. I have received an email from "TLCA Admin" saying they were being overnighted. I assume this means that the second 6 weren't lost in transit.

I know about the Canadian chapters, I'm a member, or maybe was after this rant, True North Toyota to be exact.
The TLCA memberships use to include insurance & some other things only good to US citizens - this is fine. This is what I mean by the only thing Canadians get is Trails.

And let me clarify:
This is way past the point I wanted it to go.
I am not trying to take personal shots at anyone in the TLCA. I have been a president of a non profit club, I know its a thankless job.
I am happy to see that the TLCA is concerned.

[jasond73fj40]

I don't want a refund.
I don't want to play this any more.
UPS is well known to over charge, I just find it interesting that I'm the first to complain.
Maybe offer the option of US mail.

[jasond73fj40]

Just for fun from http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/f...ees/steps.html

"There is a way to avoid paying the brokerage fee.
...
She refused the package when it was delivered to her door. Another option is to tell the company you're buying from to clearly mark on the package that you will take care of
clearing customs.
...
Once the package arrives you should be notified.

Here's what you do next:

You'll need to get the waybill from the courier company.
Once you get the waybill, head to customs to pay any duty or taxes that are owing.
Make sure you also have an invoice or something to prove the value of your delivery.
After that, it's back to the courier company to pick up your package.
...
"
-- Aside from the hassle & pile of fuel because I drive a cruiser.

[tornadoalleycruiser]

"I don't want a refund.
I don't want to play this any more."

Wow.. I log in real quick in the middle of my day job to look and see if there is anything I could possibly do in my thankless volunteer job as EVP with the TLCA and find this..
You wonder why there are soo many people trying to help you.. You bash us in a public setting, you refuse a refund, then just say.. Hey I don't wanna play anymore after I got what I wanted. Why not say something like
Hey.. maybe I shouldn't bash the TLCA in general.. Those folks are really trying to do what they can to try and take care of me.. They responded in a timely manner, offered a refund for any and all cost incurred, I've gotten a personal note on this thread from half of the volunteers that make up the executive board of the tlca..

Just in case you don't know mud handles..
woooody is the Western rep of the TLCA
Chef is the president of the TLCA
genericfj80 is the TLCA MSVP
Hulk is the TLCA Webmaster
I"m the TLCA EVP
you've also communicated with the TLCA Admin

Is there any other way in which we might meet your needs in a more timely manner? PLease let us know and we will do our best.
Yours truly.. Erik A. Christiansen.
TLCA Executive Vice President
And no it is not a paid position, I am a volunteer for a non-profit car club.

[jasond73fj40]

to re quote #13

And let me clarify:
This is way past the point I wanted it to go.
I am not trying to take personal shots at anyone in the TLCA. I have been a president of a non profit club, I know its a thankless job.
I am happy to see that the TLCA is concerned.

[lshobie]

I ship all over the world on a regular basis, UPS has the highest brokerage fees that I know of. To avoid paying high UPS brokerage fees use their Expedited or express service (air), when you use ground service it seems cheaper but UPS hammers you with brokerage fees if you use their brokers.

UPS air service has a small fees built into it but nothing like the brokerage fee - you do not have pay brokerage fees when shipping air - but you still have to pay duties.

Personally I think there are just as reliable ways to ship, UPS is not the only player in town.

[mikeyT]

I always try to avoid UPS. However, they seem to be revered by some vendors; depends who you're talking to. In the past, I've asked specifically of some (not TLCA) to allow me to choose another carrier, and been refused despite my examples of UPS gouging.

UPS is consistently zealous in their overbilling for "brokerage". Mailings to Canada via USPS to Canada Post don't charge anything beyond postage, then collect duty upon delivery as required; their role as agents for some cross border paperwork is seen as routine. They've been doing it forever, right? With the mail services, we are the ones ultimately responsible for dealing with customs and customs never forgets ya...

UPS seems to figure their service is like gold; everybody must want it and need it. I have on several occasions been charged brokerage fees higher than the value of the item delivered; on one occasion, duty wasn't even charged by Canada Customs. The mail services see their job as ordinary and they get it done. And finally, reliability is not perfect in any of these services; many others can tell UPS horror stories.

Hopefully TLCA will understand a bit about this cost to it's cross-border members and choose another carrier or at least offer a choice.

Cheers..

[pjohnson]

Originally Posted by jasond73fj40

to re quote #13

And let me clarify:
This is way past the point I wanted it to go.

So delete the thread and end it......

Phil

[ginericLC]

Your thoughts have been heard. TLCA no longer controls it's merchandise. It is farmed out. So we've contracted out the production, packaging, and shipment. I will ask if there is a way that the company TLCA uses can ship via an alternate company to Canada. I'm not sure that is an option for us to specify how they ship at this point. But I will ask that is about all I can promise.

As for the events, a lot of the TLCA events in the US are a long ways from our members. The closest one for me is a full day's drive. You chapter always has the option of creating their own event with the exception of Rubithon this how all the other TLCA events are planned and hosted.

[Romer]

Originally Posted by pjohnson

So delete the thread and end it......

Phil

He can't delete it unless he has a star.

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Romer

He can't delete it unless he has a star.

If he deletes his first post, it will delete the thread.....

Or at least it used to...

[jasond73fj40]