more Trail Gear drama

[orangefj45]

it's pretty well known that i have no love for Tg or what they stand for but how far are these guys willing to go?!

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503929

worse yet, how far is the TLCA willing to let them go yet still let them advertise in TT?! is that what we want to stand for????? these guys have been wheeling as long or longer than ost of us and to put one of the most beautiful trails in norcal if not anywhere in jeopardy is absolutely ridiculous. do we really want to be associated with this group???? i don't!

[TUFFTORQ]

linky no work...?

[orangefj45]

ha. luckily somebody came to their senses and deleted the thread in question.

short of the story:

Trail Gear had it's "first anual dusty ershim" trip and posted some pics of themselves off the trail, in the meadows, climbing trees, parked right next to the lakes,......
F***** MORONS!!!!!!!

but then again, i'm sure there are plenty of people out there who will still support them and their business. not me.

[orangefj45]

Originally Posted by TUFFTORQ

linky no work...?

mark. you and i did that trail together in your rig for your first wheeling trip ever. how would you feel if that trail got closed cause of people like that?! i know i'd be more than pissed.

i have the pics and can email them to people if they don't believe me. i'd rather not.

this is so sad.

[FirstToy]

Is this the same thing?
http://forum.ih8mud.com/trails-events-expeditions/107787-trail-gear-dusy-ershim-trail-run.html

Never been to Dusy so I don't know...

[TUFFTORQ]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

mark. you and i did that trail together in your rig for your first wheeling trip ever. how would you feel if that trail got closed cause of people like that?! i know i'd be more than pissed.

We did do that together Georg. The absolute most beautiful trail! I saw the thread on trail rides and events. I guess I shouldn't be suprised with the vendor. And we wonder why the USFS and BLM are weiners to the rest of us that do follow the rules on designated routes. And they posted pics to brag about it... With the pics posted, you realize that the feds can pursue their ignorance, right?

[orangefj45]

Originally Posted by FirstToy

Is this the same thing?
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=107787

Never been to Dusy so I don't know...

yup, i'm afraid so. but the pics on pirate were just slightly more incriminating.

[Mace]

:sigh:


Georg, e-mail me the pics.

Geo_guy@yahoo.com

[TUFFTORQ]

Aaaay Georg, While your at it, send the pics to TLCA's president and the BOD. Maybe our own land use gyru Greg Mumm would be interested in these classic shots?

Originally Posted by Mace

:sigh:


Georg, e-mail me the pics.

Geo_guy@yahoo.com

[TRT2]

In the TLCA forum, I'll share comments...

I believe you two have gone way over board and are letting your personal feelings and emotions drive your remarks/comments.

Mark you've run that trail what? Once? While I am not a local to that trail, I do recognize all those spots in question and saw nothing wrong worth the chastizing you have laid upon Chris. While I agree with you that proper back country ettiquette was not followed ( I have not seen the tree climbing shot ), I do know that those same types of activities happen at TLCA events too. Folks in glass houses should not cast stones.

Note... the shot of trucks on the lake... that is Courtwright reservoir. Its open to public use and technically, not on the trail. There is primitive camping all around thar area. The 'meadow shots'.. that is the trail as you approach that sweet little stream crossing on the 1st day after courtwright. Part of the trail.

I also believe that it is totally irresponsible to use the name of TLCA in your message. TLCA itself has experienced severe problems when one member uses TLCA as a threat to a business that has not acted up to their personal standards. This is documented in Ron Patston's President Message. You could not TLCA Members... and let member make their decision about right/wrong... but to use TLCA as in the entire association is inappropriate.

Georg... I can't help but feel you are actively looking for ways to bad mouth Chris. While I do understand your personal feelings towards him and the TG company, I am surprised with the level of verocity you are using in attacking him.

Now I very much consider you two very good friends and have enjoyed your company on the Dusy itself (and hope to continue to do so) and I am not bad mouthing you or your viewpoints... but I am saying that I think you let your emotions do the typing; and using TLCA as you have is inappropriate.

Look forward to seeing you two so we chat more about this privately.

[TUFFTORQ]

PM sent with attached file. Sorry for bringing up TLCA comments...

Take a peek at the pics first. I think you will see the careless problems mentioned.

[orangefj45]

tony. you know i value your opinion and our friendship. it's not a big secret that i do not like chris or Trail Gear because of how they do business. but that's a whole different issue.
i just sent you a pm with the pics in question. they are not the pics seen in the other threads on any of the forums. these pics were removed for obvious reasons.
yes, we did run the trail together and NONE of us went off the trail at any point or did anything else to jeopardize the future of this trail in any way. the Tg trip did.
it's absolutely true that mark has only been on that trail once, maybe twice but since it was his first trip in his own rig he has very fond memories of the trip and feels strongly about the issue as i do. but i guess that's talking for him so i'll let him respond to that.
maybe i should'nt have mentioned the TLCA along with this issue but i had my reasons. we all know how long chris has been wheeling. we all know how active he is on the boards and in the community. so logic dictates that he knows better than to behave like that on the trail or to let anybody in his group act like that while on a run put on by him or his employer. either way, he along with trail gear as the promoter/organizer is responsible. or irresponsible; however you want to look at it.

i know that trail gear spends a lot of money advertising to generate business. they do so on the boards and in publications. what bothers me is that we have their add in TT. i know i'm not in a neutral corner on this one but then again, i could'nt stand gregg mushro either.

[TUFFTORQ]

Originally Posted by orangefj45

yes, we did run the trail together and NONE of us went off the trail at any point or did anything else to jeopardize the future of this trail in any way. the Tg trip did.
it's absolutely true that mark has only been on that trail once, maybe twice but since it was his first trip in his own rig he has very fond memories of the trip and feels strongly about the issue as i do.

I have only run it once. Out of all the trails I've done, Dusy Ershim is still my absolute favorite. It's similiar to driving through Yosemite Canyon and just in aww with the amount of beauty. The wildlife, meadows, streams, lakes, huge rock formations, and trees are absolutely gorgeous. Good times and cheerished memories...

I just hope that it's still open so that I can drag my kids through to experience the same incredible trail. And I didn't break anything...whoo hoo!

Again, apologize for dragging TLCA into this thread.

Mark

[TRT2]

thanks guys... I understand your view point and concur fully.

[DHONDAGOD]

Tony, although I primarily lurk on mud I feel I need to comment here on this. My understanding based on speaking to Forest Service while wheeling the trials in my backyard here in Fresno (including Duesy/Ershim) is that there is a 20' easment on either side of the trail CENTERLINE for vehicle passage. On Dusey/Ershim specifically no camping/driving/parking within 100' of the water is allowed. Period. This is again from Forest Service that patrol these areas. On Trail-Gears website it shows the TG crew CAMPING with their tents and vehicles within what appears to be about 2-vehicle lengths of the waters edge.

link to TG website with camping pics. note this is on their sites main page.

http://www.trail-gear.com/events/200.../2006dusy.html

Fresno 4WD Club spent tons of man hours opening this trail this year clearing over 50 downed trees, burning up several winches not to mention fuel, food, wear and tear on rigs, chainsaws etc just so we could have the privilage to wheel this trail. Actions such as these WILL get this trail shut down. Although not as famous/commercial as the Rubicon it is still under alot of fire. Every year its a fight to get it opened for another year.

For a company that sells to the 4x4 community to brag/post on their website showing total disregards to the law and their carefree attitude and canned responses to people who question them is insane.

At what point DO ethics, morals, doing what is right because-it-is-right even when no-one is looking, become worth fighting for? When it pays? When a vendor/person in question dosent pay? What about the websites that support such groups?

Once upon a time people did the right thing because it was right no matter what the cost. Honor, integrity, moral values and a mans name meant more than money. Sad that today's world no longer embraces that philosophy.

There are those of us that do not approve of TG's business practices. Now there are those of us who do not approve of TG's wheeling practices. Arent those opinions to count for something? What is wrong with voiceing an opinion about something that is wrong BECAUSE it is wrong? What if the group/rig in question was sponsord by Red Bull? Would it still be a vendetta?

Whats the difference?

chris

[65swb45]

Puter has been down for two days, so I had no idea this was out there.

MUCHO THANKS TO GEORG for posting this!

WE are compiling a portfolio.

TONY, like everyone else said, we all value your opinion, and your levelheaded approach. There is no doubt that there are feelings involved. It takes passion to overcome inertia. We in the TLCA have benefited from the things YOU have felt passionate about in the past. Hopefully TLCA will find some benefit from our passion as well. Time will tell

I think that the point of this thread is to remind everyone once again of the adage 'how you do anything is how you do everything.'

There will be a time, and there WILL be a place, when the TLCA will be asked, point blank, to deal with this.

In the meantime, we will continue to build a portfolio.

I doubt that it will be a hard job.


Best

Mark A.

[orangefj45]

maybe this should be considered for the portfolio:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=504047

and then the response from matt messer on the tg forum; post 41:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=504047

once again. more conflict and no integrity. but then again, i'm a biased sob.

[orangefj45]

ps, i love chris geiger's reply post #32 on that same thread. "you'll be back. you'll all be back".

that's some funny stuff. what an arrogant ass. where's he gonna go when TG closes down? like any business owner would touch him with a ten foot stick?!

[TRT2]

Thanks Chris... I Though your comments on POR where very well written and displayed a 'level headed approach' or reaction.

I can also say that in the short time I have known you personally, I have a great respect for you and what you stand for personally.

[65swb45]

Originally Posted by TRT2

Thanks Chris... I Though your comments on POR where very well written and displayed a 'level headed approach' or reaction.

I can also say that in the short time I have known you personally, I have a great respect for you and what you stand for personally.

Chris?

Miller........or Geiger?

[fj40charles]

What a surprise that something like this would come from a company that lacks ethics and morals... I'm doing my part by never buying anything from them.

[woooody]

Originally Posted by 65swb45

Chris?

Miller........or Geiger?

It would have to be Miller, since Geiger isn't in this thread.

[MaddBaggins]

Originally Posted by fj40charles

What a surprise that something like this would come from a company that lacks ethics and morals... I'm doing my part by never buying anything from them.

TG is doing well on www.fjcruiserforums.com lots of those folks are buying up FJ sliders and they are forum sponsors. Just an FYI, I know after what I've read here and on pirate, they don't have anything I need and won't ever.

[cruiser88]

no matter what happened and who is at fault they really lost alot of customers out of this mess.sad really sad.only reason why they lost me because i called the other eve.and some guy or kid did not catch on that i was really needing a lift for the front also and i told him why would i lift just the back and not front .and he had no clue if i could order parts seperatly from the lift kit or not.i told him nevermind

[TUFFTORQ]

Hmmm...It just keeps on gettin' a little better

http://www.nowhitefenders.com/dusyershim_aug25_2k6.htm

This trip definetly got Trail Gear the advertising and publicity they deserved

[orangefj45]

that thread already got canned, but some of the "cover shots" can be seen here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=504036

sorry for all the cross posting. sometimes it's the only way to do it.