- Thread starter
- #21
We were discussing wheel manufacturers - knowing who manufactures the wheels for Toyota would do wonders to ask if they could make those wheels in stainless, wouldn't you think?huh??
Why are there no Stainless Steel Wheels? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter 83bj60
- Start date
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This has nothing to do with Toyota specifically. It's a question about rims in general. There are many manu's that make rims and lots of contacts out there. You already have one rim manu that explained why. You just do not believe him.. 
Type: Wheels Size: 21" - 24" Material: aluminum alloy
OEM No.: Firestone size: 17.5*6.75 ET: inset 120 outset 141
P.C.D: 245*10 stud.dia: 26.75 C.B: 220
max load: 2500kg truck: wheel rims aluminum: wheel rim
alloy: wheel rim semi-trailer: wheel rims
I think they are made out of aluminum..
I don't have to explain anything because I have not stated they are not able to be made.
I told you to go ask the people that build rims why. They are much better suited to answer your question than I am.
I told you to go ask the people that build rims why. They are much better suited to answer your question than I am.
But how can you explain THAT and still say that SS is undoabe for wheels? I understand that these wheels are of a different design, but certainly the flex stresses are the same, if not greater, on a motorcycle wheel than on a car or truck!
What are the spokes made of? What you just linked to was the rim, not the entire wheel. Perhaps the steel spokes allow enough flexibility to offset the brittle-ness of the SS rims?
I've never seen a fully SS wheel in any on-road application and I've managed truck fleets for 25 years. You can bet that if it were possible and cost effective you would have seen this product on OTR trucks already.
Potash Mine corrosion
Many years ago, I worked in a steel fab operation that did structural work for potash mines. We used a primer that had a powdered zinc added to it for application. The remote canister of paint was constantly stirred by a pneumatic beater to keep the zinc in suspension. I remember the application was also quite tricky in that the primer tended to "land dry" on the work if pressures and distances for application were outside of proper standards.
I did a quick search on the net to see if these materials were still in use and this is a short quote from the first article I hit. Note that the primer is not suitable for sheet metal, only structural parts. Wheels and frames would be OK.
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Zinc-rich primers provide outstanding corrosion resistance, especially in aggressive corrosive environments
Zinc-rich primers are intended for structural steel members and not for thin-gauge metal sheets, such as you might come across on your equipment.
You cannot apply a zinc-rich primer to previously painted surfaces. The primer must be in intimate contact with the clean metal, otherwise it will not provide cathodic protection to the metal.
You should not apply the primer to surfaces that contain any greases or oils.
All surfaces must be abrasive blasted to a white or near-white metal finish, and paint vendors usually recommend a blast profile of approximately 1.5-2.0 mils. If sheet metal were to be prepared in this manner, it would probably deform. Hence, the previous statement that zinc-rich metals are intended for thicker structural steel members.
After abrasive blasting the metal, you should apply the zinc-rich primer within a few hours - well before the metal can start to show signs of flash rusting.
Abrasive blasting is often not recommended or convenient when performed on existing equipment that contains motors, bearings and moving parts, because the abrasive can often find its way between the moving parts.
Inorganic zinc-rich primers come in two parts; a small quantity of a clear silicate resin in one can, and a large volume of zinc powder in the other. The difficulty faced by the painter is to intimately mix the zinc with the silicate resin. The goal is to have each individual zinc dust particle coated with the resin, but this is no mean feat if one considers how much zinc is added to the small volume of resin. Therefore, suitable mixing equipment is required and the painter must be properly trained and preferably have previous experience in this application.
Many years ago, I worked in a steel fab operation that did structural work for potash mines. We used a primer that had a powdered zinc added to it for application. The remote canister of paint was constantly stirred by a pneumatic beater to keep the zinc in suspension. I remember the application was also quite tricky in that the primer tended to "land dry" on the work if pressures and distances for application were outside of proper standards.
I did a quick search on the net to see if these materials were still in use and this is a short quote from the first article I hit. Note that the primer is not suitable for sheet metal, only structural parts. Wheels and frames would be OK.
____________________________________
Zinc-rich primers provide outstanding corrosion resistance, especially in aggressive corrosive environments
Zinc-rich primers are intended for structural steel members and not for thin-gauge metal sheets, such as you might come across on your equipment.
You cannot apply a zinc-rich primer to previously painted surfaces. The primer must be in intimate contact with the clean metal, otherwise it will not provide cathodic protection to the metal.
You should not apply the primer to surfaces that contain any greases or oils.
All surfaces must be abrasive blasted to a white or near-white metal finish, and paint vendors usually recommend a blast profile of approximately 1.5-2.0 mils. If sheet metal were to be prepared in this manner, it would probably deform. Hence, the previous statement that zinc-rich metals are intended for thicker structural steel members.
After abrasive blasting the metal, you should apply the zinc-rich primer within a few hours - well before the metal can start to show signs of flash rusting.
Abrasive blasting is often not recommended or convenient when performed on existing equipment that contains motors, bearings and moving parts, because the abrasive can often find its way between the moving parts.
Inorganic zinc-rich primers come in two parts; a small quantity of a clear silicate resin in one can, and a large volume of zinc powder in the other. The difficulty faced by the painter is to intimately mix the zinc with the silicate resin. The goal is to have each individual zinc dust particle coated with the resin, but this is no mean feat if one considers how much zinc is added to the small volume of resin. Therefore, suitable mixing equipment is required and the painter must be properly trained and preferably have previous experience in this application.
- Thread starter
- #29
Very interesting, but my experience with this type of product on wheels several years ago was disappointing.
As a matter of fact, I did source some very, very expensive zinc rich primer. I forget the name of the brand, it was apparently used by chain link fence companies to paint galvanized hardware after welding and at close to $20 a spray can, I was extremely expensive and I sure hoped it would work. Fortunately, after I wrote the manufacturer telling them that if the product passed my tests, many other cruiserheads would purchase this product for their own wheels, they sent me an assortment of both primer and finish to test out fee of charge
So I went to this u-sandblast place and did the inside of my old chrome wheels which were completely rusted, got it down to the metal and sprayed each wheel immediately as soon as I finished blasting it, then a coat of zinc based "chrome" surface finish, for a total of about three cans per wheel, about six coats total. The house stank of paint and my nostrils were blocked solid grey for days
It ended up costing me close to $250 for the 4 wheels, plus labour... And it lasted all of about 2 to 3 years
After 6, they had become so bad I ended having to throw them away! That should tell you a lot from someone who usually throws away nothing!!!
Would I do it again? Certainly not, it was a complete waste of time and money. Perhaps I should have applied not 6 coats of paint, but 12, and reapplied a coat every 6 months after that
Verdict? The zinc rich stuff simply isn't good enough for our road conditions, hot dip is probably the only alternative. And don't try to tell me that Toyota OEM quality is the best... You should see how bad my 5 year old Toyota OEM powder coated 'silver' pickup rims look like ow... It's so depressing I refuse to show you pictures of them
It seems my quest is hopeless... No one seems to take us salt belt inhabitants seriously, and the only 16 inch chrome OEM rims available have even become a rarity even in the country where they were so abundant in, Australia.
I work in a mechanic shop for an industrial cleaning company that operates a fleet of "vac trucks". They basically work like a giant shop vac on the back of a semi. The inside of the "debris body" is a giant raw steel tank that holds any liquids or solids that are vacuumed up. Being an industrial cleaning company the trucks vacuum up some some pretty harsh and extremely corrosive acids etc. These trucks are 3/4 of a mil each, some even more and if the steel gets to thin the truck will crush like a beer can so protecting them from corrosion is vital. The only things that have worked at all are bed-liner and ceramic paint. The ceramic paint is difficult to get and expensive but extremly tough. I think bed-liner would be the best option since its very easy to get and cheap. The only reason it didnt work in the trucks is because of the abrasion but you don't have that on wheels. One thing that happened with the trucks is that water would get under it and corrode the metal so you would need to be careful of that. I know lots of guys on the fj forum paint wheels with Plasti-dip with lots of success. Another thing we did with the trucks that went to phosphate mines was paint the steel wheels with the same industrial equipment paint as the rest of the truck and that worked pretty well at preventing the corrosion because of the thickness of the paint. Another thing to try would be powdercoating.
- Thread starter
- #31
Actually I think yo hit the spot there... Now it would just be a matter to get an oven that can keep the wheels heated to 500F for half an hour for proper curing
Hmmm... Not! We're talking sand, gravel and salt here for 5 months out of the year... Mucho abrasion!!! But what about actual finish? Wouldn't that be horrible?
Wow, what a smorgasbord of advice!!! Perhaps my problem was indeed due to the fact the coating was simply too thin... So I guess there is no other solution than frequent painting then, we got to treat our wheels as if it was the hull of a sea going ship, then? What about the impact resistance of that ceramic paint?
I'm going to check the plasti-dip. Thanks again for the great tips!!!
Well there is some abrasion on wheels but the back of a vac truck is like a giant sand blaster so the bed liner peeled off pretty quickly. And from the pictures Ive seen the plasti-dip actually doesnt look that bad on wheels. Lots of guys even black out the roof of their fj's with the stuff. Check it out on youtube, theres tons of videos about it.
Edit: I just had a thought on how you could heat the wheels for ceramic coating. What about one of those pottery kilns? They're pretty huge right? You would just have to know the right person
Edit: I just had a thought on how you could heat the wheels for ceramic coating. What about one of those pottery kilns? They're pretty huge right? You would just have to know the right person
wagonteeth
Hippoverde
An oven could be made for pretty cheap out of sheet metal. It doesn't have to be insulated to cure the ceramic (look up cerakote). sure, during teh baking process, you'd lose heat, but it could be done with a propane turkey cooker and a 24" square sheet metal box with a support to suspend the wheel in the middle.
I've done similar in curing Moly coat pain on guns with a stainless 36"x6"x6" box with a plywood lid on a coleman stove.
I also baked an AR15 in my oven in the house.
On the stainless wheel, what comes to my mind is the machinability of stainless. It tends to wear tooling fast. Alloy wheels are machined from billets with a lot of scrap that is simpler to turn back in to billets. No so with stainless.
Steel wheels are usually (if not always) stamped. stainless is less malleable in comparable thicknesses.
I've done similar in curing Moly coat pain on guns with a stainless 36"x6"x6" box with a plywood lid on a coleman stove.
I also baked an AR15 in my oven in the house.
On the stainless wheel, what comes to my mind is the machinability of stainless. It tends to wear tooling fast. Alloy wheels are machined from billets with a lot of scrap that is simpler to turn back in to billets. No so with stainless.
Steel wheels are usually (if not always) stamped. stainless is less malleable in comparable thicknesses.
That stuff would be extremely tough if you could get it on your wheels
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- #35
Thanks, guys! I have a pretty powerful commercial gas oven that goes all the way to 450F so I believe it should be possible... But it's on the back burner now, winter has hit us quite hard in the past few weeks and with downed trees, rocks brought in by the snowplow and forgotten dog chain I've been busy keeping the snowblower running
TLC Norway
woodwelder
Just to add something about the plasti-dip.
I've tried it on different objects and car parts. I wouldn't put it on anything you'd need a laying finish on, if it sees any physical out mechanical wear.
So roof and hood, ok. Wheels, door handles and such, no.
I've tried it on different objects and car parts. I wouldn't put it on anything you'd need a laying finish on, if it sees any physical out mechanical wear.
So roof and hood, ok. Wheels, door handles and such, no.
- Thread starter
- #37
Thank you for reviving this moribund thread. Every time I check online about "Stainless Steel Wheels" and eliminate these outrageously useless and ridiculous rotating hubcaps, I invariably fall on this thread.
As for myself, I've resigned myself to cleaning and painting my wheels every year with good, old, cheap Corrostop ($35 Cannuck dollars per gallon), no fancy prep needed except for removing loose scale, light sanding and cleaning, sticks to rusted metal and stops rust from reappearing.
Applies with a brush (spray kind is needlessly expensive and doesn't do any better of a job) , dries super gloss or satin matte in 24 hours, repaints within the hour or after a week or so, flexible enough to resist chipping and, after three applications, rust is essentially stopped in its tracks. Available in limited colors, but hey! It's easy to do and works just as well as paints costing 10 times more.
Just use a needle scaler to remove flaking rust before applying the first coat, use a sponge sanding pad the next time before painting and clean with a gasoline or diesel soaked rag and you're good to go. Quick, easy and cheap.
Thanks are due to my old friend Jean Gauthier who has no computer and no internet , for that common sense advice. The paint works so well I've painted my rocker panels that were starting to rust with it and with the money saved bought myself a vintage 1977 Sears 'Farm Duty' compressor and may even try my hand at spray painting with the stuff, first the frame and if it works well, maybe the rest of the truck starting with the bottom of the doors
As for myself, I've resigned myself to cleaning and painting my wheels every year with good, old, cheap Corrostop ($35 Cannuck dollars per gallon), no fancy prep needed except for removing loose scale, light sanding and cleaning, sticks to rusted metal and stops rust from reappearing.
Applies with a brush (spray kind is needlessly expensive and doesn't do any better of a job) , dries super gloss or satin matte in 24 hours, repaints within the hour or after a week or so, flexible enough to resist chipping and, after three applications, rust is essentially stopped in its tracks. Available in limited colors, but hey! It's easy to do and works just as well as paints costing 10 times more.
Just use a needle scaler to remove flaking rust before applying the first coat, use a sponge sanding pad the next time before painting and clean with a gasoline or diesel soaked rag and you're good to go. Quick, easy and cheap.
Thanks are due to my old friend Jean Gauthier who has no computer and no internet , for that common sense advice. The paint works so well I've painted my rocker panels that were starting to rust with it and with the money saved bought myself a vintage 1977 Sears 'Farm Duty' compressor and may even try my hand at spray painting with the stuff, first the frame and if it works well, maybe the rest of the truck starting with the bottom of the doors
I'm inclined to think that cost is the main reason they are not made. My company makes stainless steel products for the construction industry (these are load rated structural products, albeit not for the kind of dynamic loading a wheel sees), and the wear and tear on our manufacturing equipment is so much higher than when we make the same product out of regular zinc coated carbon steel that the cost premium is about a factor of 10. Brittleness has been mentioned in this thread, but I have not seen that with the stainless steels we use. With the right stainless (like ASTM A303) the stainless will not only not be brittle but will out preform typical carbon steel (and certainly cast aluminum) to a significant degree (strain at fracture approaching 50%). My buddy and I once fit beaver tail grip safeties to our 1911's, his carbon steel and mine stainless, and it was significantly more difficult to grind away the stainless to follow the profile of the safety than it was on the carbon steel frame. Where I live I thankfully don't share your corrosion pain but I do share an understanding for why you'd want stainless steel wheels.
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- Thread starter
- #39
Very interesting- But a factor of 10 in labour/ transformation costs? That seems unreasonable - I understand Stainless Steel is hard, but that bad? Does it break the tools or is it just simply unworkable? What part of the process is especially hard or difficult?
Wear and tear on the tools and dies. They only have to wear a little before part tolerance is out of spec.
