Why are there no Stainless Steel Wheels? (1 Viewer)

[83bj60]

this question has been gnawing me for the past 20 years... I have made many fruitless Google searches (and NO, I have absolutely NO interest in stainless steel 'simulators', who in their right mind would purchase something as useless as that?!)

Since I have not been able to find, I am asking the question here. I figure with our collective IQ we should be able to answer this question! So if anyone has a clue as to why there are no stainless steel wheels available, I would LOVE to hear about it if you know the actual reason why it is so, or have a theory as to why, in our high tech age, we still have t suffer rusting and corroding wheels!

Is it because SS is not tough enough? Too expensive? Too small a market? Wheels are consumables like tires?

If you have any idea... Shoot and let this question be put to rest for good!

 

[brian]

a no need for it.
would be crazy heavy and that's bad for mileage.
stupid expensive, and people would be stealing wheels left and right to scrap.
i also have my doubts to their long term structural well being.

 

[83bj60]

Thank you to get the ball rolling, Brian, but I have to dispute a few of your assertions:

a no need for it.

20% of all the world's steel production is lost yearly to rust and corrosion. Stainless steel, well, doesn't. In exhaust applications, stainless steel lasts an average of 2-3 times longer.

would be crazy heavy and that's bad for mileage.

Stainless steel has a density of just above 8. Mild steel, 7.8. In high strain applications such as exhausts, stainless steel is actually lighter because it is stronger than mild steel, and of the proper grade is used, is no more prone to stress fracturing than mild steel.

stupid expensive

Mild steel is approximately $.40 per pound. SS such as 304, one of the better grades, is about $1. A Landcruiser steel wheel weighs about 25 lb. Base metal for steel is $10, for SS $25. After manufacturing and distribution costs are tacked on, the difference is minor at best.

Marketing is the only reason it's expensive: perceived small market.

Where I live SS exhaust parts are almost the same price as regular steel ones. Most of the cost in a product is not material, not even manufacturing. It has been proven time and again that the true cost of production is less than 5% of list price.

Finally, cost of maintenance isn't even factored in. Stainless steel needs no corrosion proofing, painting and continuing maintenance to keep it in usable condition. Mild steel requires all the above. For anything meant to last more than a few years in a corrosive environment I simply cannot see how mild steel can win.

and people would be stealing wheels left and right to scrap.

I disagree. As scrap, it's worth only about twice as much. It's a different story for resale, just like with alloy wheels. Again, marketing. What is rare is more desirable.

i also have my doubts to their long term structural well being.

This is not true for 409 and similar mild SS.

Again, Brian, thanks for your input!

 

[Mace]

Cause it's easier to get chromed or Aluminum wheels.


It takes quite a while to rust away a steel wheel. No reason to justify the cost compared to Chroming and aluminum.

 

[83bj60]

Cause it's easier to get chromed or Aluminum wheels.


It takes quite a while to rust away a steel wheel. No reason to justify the cost compared to Chroming and aluminum.

I'm sorry to appear so argumentative but... I don't find $800 or ($400 for the cheaper places) to rechrome wheels after ten years justifyable when it would have cost just an extra $20 in materials to make them out of Stainless Steel. We don't all live in Nevada, you know.

Chroming has become impossibly expensive because of environmental regulations, as the process produces extremely toxic waste.

Furthermore, it's just a plating that always ends up flaking off, especially at seams and welds. Here in the salt Belt, it retards rust just by a few more years. Stainless steel OTOH is permanent. If it gets dinged, it stays rust free. See if that works with Aluminum or Chrome. Want some corroded wheels? I have some nice corroded Berg Alloy wheels that came with the truck when I got it from Japan. Even though they were coated, it took just part of one winter for them to get spots and only blasting will get them clean now.

Come on? Don't you guys want your trucks to last as long as possible? I just don't get it!

By the way - the reason why I'm asking is because my nice Toyota Silver Steelies, purchased in late fall of 2007, are hopelessly rusted after just 5 years, they'll have to be sandblasted and freshly powder coated if I want them nice for another 5 years. Considering they cost over $100 each, I am NOT impressed. Then again, no steel wheels last much longer than tires here. Heck, when you go to Canadian Tire at this time of year, you'll see as many steel wheels on the pallets as tires.

OK, enough ranting for now. It's Canadian Thanksgiving, after all. I AM thankful to be privileged enough to be driving this king of the Road, the Land Cruiser

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Why not just run aluminum alloy wheels? They exist, used ones are cheap, and they don't rust. You see full sets of OEM 80 series alloys all the time here on Ih8Mud for $200.

I think stainless wheels sound great, but why would you need them?

 

[Devilmans Hand]

stainless steel would be cool, but manufacturers do not want their products to last forever.
There may be a niche in the aftermarket.
I think wheels tend to get mechanically destroyed before they are chemically destroyed.
Also, junkyards are full of regular steel wheels that live longer than the vehicle that has long since been scrapped, crushed, and melted down. Why build a part that outlives the useful life of the vehicle?

 

[Mace]

So


buy



Aluminum



wheels...

 

[Cruiser_Nerd]

That's a pretty fair question, why isn't anyone marketing a stainless wheel?

As far as aluminum............if you spent four months of the year in a chloride bath you would understand. I run antiseize on the hubs of the 100 and the wheels can still be stubborn to get off (rotated at least once a year). I've seen two year old aluminum rims completely frozen to hubs.

Oxidized aluminum rims look as crappy as oxidized carbon steel rims.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

That's a pretty fair question, why isn't anyone marketing a stainless wheel?

As far as aluminum............if you spent four months of the year in a chloride bath you would understand. I run antiseize on the hubs of the 100 and the wheels can still be stubborn to get off (rotated at least once a year). I've seen two year old aluminum rims completely frozen to hubs.

Oxidized aluminum rims look as crappy as oxidized carbon steel rims.

Ahhh..Understood. We don't deal with that here. In fact the unpainted spots on my 40 don't even rust.

When I lived in Minnesota, which was many years ago, 3 year old cars had rusty rocker panels and all cars were shot by 5-6 years old. Crazy stuff. Canada is likely worse.

 

[83bj60]

Why not just run aluminum alloy wheels? They exist, used ones are cheap, and they don't rust.

Oh yeah?

I think stainless wheels sound great, but why would you need them?

I'll update this post with a picture of my 5 year old Toyota Steelies tomorrow... You'll understand...

 

[83bj60]

Ahhh..Understood. We don't deal with that here. In fact the unpainted spots on my 40 don't even rust.

Yeah, turn the knife in the wound and add some salt while you're at it

When I lived in Minnesota, which was many years ago, 3 year old cars had rusty rocker panels and all cars were shot by 5-6 years old. Crazy stuff. Canada is likely worse.

If you don't oil your car or otherwise treat it before every winter even the best of the best hardly survive more than 12 years. ALL our vehicles end up in the crusher because of rust, never because of mechanical problems (unless you consider a broken frame due to metal flaking off or a McPherson strut going through the hood after the top supports rotted out mechanical problems).

Of course, we haven't even touched the subject of the Challenge to Remove that Seized Part, which is, almost anything on the truck. MAP Gas torches, ReleaseAll and NeverSeize are essential things no home mechanics would do without here.

In other words, the Challenge is this: Replace front Disk and Brake:
-> In California, a couple of hours in shorts.
-> In Quebec, a couple of days to heat the parts, get rained upon with slush and spray it with ReleaseAll, rinse and repeat before even attempting removal. And I'm not counting time spent washing clothes and drying them after they've been covered with slush!!! (that lovely drippy, grimy, snow sand and salt mix that sticks to the truck for months on end), and removing rust off the removed parts!!!

OK, I exaggerate, we do have nice weather for about 6 months every year (the rest being cold, wet or otherwise miserable), and I can hear ya saying "just do it when the weather's nice" but then there's the sand removal from last winter's road snow removal, deck cleaning, house painting, chopping wood and snowblower maintenance

 

[83bj60]

stainless steel would be cool, but manufacturers do not want their products to last forever.

Yeah - perfect example of our lovey system of Wealth created through Waste, otherwise known as "Planned Obsolescence"...

I HATE it... Reason why I tend to purchase old things... Ever seen the thickness of sheet metal in old cars? (there's an old 50s chevrolet in the woods that still has paint on, imagine 60 years of Canadian Winters? They must have been doing some things right)... The durability of old fridges is legendary (I still have a 1953 Philco Ford fridge running as a freezer in the back porch)

There may be a niche in the aftermarket.

If there was, I figure I would have found it after so many years looking for it online!!! But NO! Plenty of Stainless Steel 'simulators', however... Have we become a society in which Fake and Lies are kings???

I think wheels tend to get mechanically destroyed before they are chemically destroyed.

I can see that... I gather most of the world's population doesn't have to battle corrosion like we do. Still, I find it strange there is not ONE stainless steel wheel manufacturer, expect for motorcycle wheels, that is.

Also, junkyards are full of regular steel wheels that live longer than the vehicle that has long since been scrapped, crushed, and melted down. Why build a part that outlives the useful life of the vehicle?

Yes, but aren't they all rusted so bad it costs more to refinish than to buy new? That's how they are here. Just useless, rusted steel. I have quite a few rusted out 60 series rims in my basement. They make great post box stands or decent supports when working with the wheels off.

 

[Mace]

Send a e-mail to the rim manu's.

Ask them.

 

[md hunt fish]

Hi I am Michael Dickerson from Raceline wheels. You propose a good question that no one has ever asked me before and trust me, I hear them all.
So I thought i would take a min. and hopefully explain it as plain as I can, so anyone should be able to understand way you will not see a stainless steel wheel .

Please don't think I'm am talk down to you in any way, it’s just my inability to write very well, please save the comments on messed spelled words and bad gramer. (The Lord said do you want to be able to write well or be really smart……… so sorry for my inability……. )

The most impotent thing here is to understand what a wheel has to go through to perform its job, just travailing down a highway.
When you hit a pot hole, road debris, Most people don't know that your wheel is flexing all the time way your wheels are traveling down the road, if designed right the wheel will distribute the shock load and dissipated throughout the wheel. This make life much easier on your suspension mounting brackets, (a lot of suspension fail-yours are because the wheel transfused the shock load to the mounting brackets of the suspension instead of distributing it throughout the wheel)

Sorry forgot I was trying to keep this simple and to the point, Alum and steel wheels have flex and spring in them, Stainless steel does not and is too brittle, when it comes to a shock load. therefore cannot be made into a wheel of these reason.

 

[40's rock]

Good answer! Stainless steel is not for structural applications....would not stand up to the wear and tear a wheel endures.

 

[83bj60]

Send a e-mail to the rim manu's.

Ask them.

If I had a reference like there is with glow plugs, for example, the problem would have been solved a long time ago, as there would be equivalences. It's like trying to find parts for an old exotic espresso grinder from an unknown house brand (rebadge) not knowing who actually manufacturers it (those who are into espresso know what I'm talking about).

The problem is, I only have the Toyota part number for the chrome wheel (Aussie market, 42601-60170). I know the version we get here (70 series grey painted steelies, 42601-60262-03) are actually manufactured in Canada, at least that's the rumour, if I could find out who actually makes them I'd be way ahead in my quest. Of course they would probably say how many thousand do I need, but hey, doesn't cost much to ask.

Furthermore, when you talk wheels, you only see brand names. Even custom shops don't make their own wheels, as far as I know. To some extent, with alloy wheels I presume you could custom assemble a wheel of a given diameter and width with the central spoke part and adjust the offset to a certain extent, at least it seems so looking at my old Berg alloys with all their screws, but a welded wheel? It would require a massive drop forge to shape the central part and an automated welder to assemble it to the rim section.

 

[Mace]

huh??

 

[83bj60]

The wheels that need the most corrosion protection are boat trailer wheels. There are lots of galvanized trailer wheel out there. My guess is galvanized wheels offer most of necessary protection without the cost of stainless steel. Get your steel wheels galvanized.

Living in the Salt belt is like dipping your boat trailer wheels DAILY into the sea 5 months out of the year, PLUS having said salt water stay on the metal without drying out (thanks to the ever so lovely, sticky salt water and snow matrix we call slush) 24 hours a day.

I somehow doubt your comparison is valid corrosion wise. A better comparison would be a wheel on the deck of a fishing trawler in Winter North Atlantic duty.

But hot dip galvanizing is a great idea nevertheless. I will definitely look into it

Does anyone know how potash mines deal with corrosion issues on their mine trucks?

 

[83bj60]

Hi I am Michael Dickerson from Raceline wheels. You propose a good question that no one has ever asked me before and trust me, I hear them all.

Thank you for taking the time to register and post here, I'm impressed!!!

[...]

Sorry forgot I was trying to keep this simple and to the point, Alum and steel wheels have flex and spring in them, Stainless steel does not and is too brittle, when it comes to a shock load. therefore cannot be made into a wheel of these reason.

That is exactly what I have issue with, because it is simply not true! There ARE stainless steel motorcycle wheels! Furthermore, not all stainless steel is brittle or hard. There are many kinds and types. Some are softer and more maleable than plain carbon steel.

OTOH, I do understand that the right stainless steel for the job may not going to finish as nice a chrome. I've been 'warned' of it countless times whenever I purchased stainless steel from a shop to repair yet another corroded chromed part on my previous landcruiser, as if that was a 'bad' thing... What is a BAD thing is RUST, not the lack of a mirror polish Perhaps there lies the problem with marketing stainless steel car and truck wheels: Stainless steel doesn't look as good as chrome or magnesium alloy... I say... WHO CARES, as long as my wheels won't rust!!!