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Water injection for forced induction.

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by cruiserdan, Apr 29, 2003.

  1. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    As many of you know there has been some bantering back and forth regarding water injection on forced induction 1FZ's to combat knocking and in some cases overheating.
    Photoman and I have been colaborating on a system from Kennedy's Dynotune in upstate NY. I finished my install last night and all I can say is IT WORKS. I had a high rpm full boost knock that I had trouble controling. Not any more.
    I now have a beautiful 2-3 shift at 72 mph and 4950 rpm Full boost WOT, NO KNOCK AT ALL.
    I took several photos during the install and will post a few when I get my old fashioned film developed. No digi cam here, spent the money on the injection. :slap:

    Regards, Dan :beer: ( Dunno how many of these :banana: )several without Bill's help, no doubt.
     
  2. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr SILVER Star

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    Almost 5000 RPM Dan? I start feeling bad when mine gets near 4000!

    Good to hear you got it working, now maybe you and Photo can design a SC for the 3F..... :'(


    -H-
     
  3. Junk

    Junk

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    Cdan - had I known, I would have sent you out my digi to use. :slap:

    Upstate NY? Where at?

    Now all I gotta do is convince you and Photo to take a run to NJ :bow:.

    Seriously - that is WICKED COOL. Congrats.

    I am so envious. I don't have a knock with my blower, but I do tend to drive long distances working it hard. :eek:
     
  4. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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  5. mts

    mts

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    Dan,

    Great news! &nbsp:Did you find a source for methanol yet? I've got a 55 gallon drum of the stuff at my house. It was the smallest quantity I could get locally. That will likely set me up for a couple years!! Anyone need some home made washer fluid!?!? Nobody light a match, please! :eek: :G

    Now, if only I could figure out a way to drink the stuff!?!? :dunno: :eek:

    Mike :beer:
     
  6. yomama

    yomama

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    I would have some concerns with a setup like this. If what I read was true, you are actually inducing water into your intake manifold, mixing with fuel? The word "vapor lock" comes to mind when I think of fuel and water. Here in Minnesota we add additives to remove water/moisture from the fuel system. Also you must have a supply of water? Gas station attendant, please fill up fuel, water (no not the anti-freeze) and check oil? I can see problems with this if you lived here where the temp gets below freezing. I am fortunate that I went with the turbo with intercooler, I read that the S/C had some knock issues. I have not had that problem and can easily hit the 5k rpm without knocking. The other day I had the pleasure of blowing away some kid in a Dodge Intrepid that thought he should be ahead of me off the green light. :slap:

    Yomama
     
  7. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Yo,

    Vapor lock is when fuel vaporizes and you get an "air bubble" in the fuel line. There are 2 reasons for methanol in the system. One is to increase the cooling capicity of the charge, two is to prevent freezing in cold weather. My washer jar is currently my supply tank. I may make a bigger one depending on how much I comsume when I 'm towing.

    Dan :beer:
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    C-Dan,

    Good job! I can't wait to see the final product and the pictures.

    -B-
     
  9. mts

    mts

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    Yomama,

    Your skeptism is common. Water injection has been around since the 1930's and is used frequently today. I have several friends that have been running it on boosted vehicles for years with great success. It's not a "fix-all" by any means, but it does work well in certain applications, sometimes without an IC and sometimes in combination with an IC.

    The FAQ's on this link are a great place to read more on the basics:
    http://www.aquamist.co.uk/rescr/rescr.html

    There are also charts and graphs showing how it works and what it does on that website.

    Mike :beer:
     
  10. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Here's what it looks like:
     
  11. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    WOW :eek: :bow:
    I WANTA 80 TOOO!
    Too Counter-productive to install water-injection and blowers on a F :-/.
     
  12. mts

    mts

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    Dan,

    That's sweet how that taps into the elbow like that. Here's are a couple pics of mine:
    http://miata.cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=213822&page=15

    It really only shows the pump mounting and the water supply tap. I have not had much time lately....had a couple hrs and tried to install it. Had trouble getting the pump to prime so I had to abort the install temporarily. I hope to have some time next weekend to finish.

    Mike :beer:
     
  13. Junk

    Junk

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    Cdan - how 'bout a pic of your whole engine bay? I just don't see how to even find room for this unless I remote mount even more of the crapola I currently have in there. ???
     
  14. Junk

    Junk

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    MTS - btw, nice track car. :beer:
     
  15. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Junk,

    Can do.

    Have you re-located your washer jar to back by the firewall?
    If so you probably could not put the pump where I did. I fabbed a bracket that lays over the top of the cruise servo to mount the pump on.

    Mike,

    I can't take credit for that beautiful elbow. photoman fabbed it and I powdercoated it. That is the nicest part of the system. Kudos to Bill :bow:

    Dan :beer:
     
  16. Junk

    Junk

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    Yeah, that's exactly where mine is, plus I have a manifold for the ARB crapola lockers there too. Can always fab something up, but seeing your whole enchalada will give me a better perspective on just how much roomola I need. :D Thanks!
     
  17. mts

    mts

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    Junk,

    I prefer the system that Dan and Bill got. However, the aquamist 1s that I got is very similar and the pump is about the size of a can of Campbell's soup. So, its an alternative for you if space is a premium.

    Mike
    :beer:
     
  18. BigMac

    BigMac SILVER Star

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    Dan & Bill:
    What octane fuel are you running? The S/C troubleshooting guide's first step for pinging is "BE SURE TO USE 92 OCTANE" (their caps). I only have 91 readily available here in SoCal (but I have not searched diligently for higher). I'd love the extra ponies, but I don't want a herd I can't feed correctly. Your water injection systems are really slick - so I'm wondering how octane plays into the whole story of the knocking that drove you to add water. Thanks, BigMac
     
  19. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    BigMac,

     Around here 91 is as good as it gets. It was OK for me if I did not hold WOT above about 4 grand. Boosters, if I used a bunch, helped some. I never did try to blend Racing gas to see if it made a difference. It seems that the simple act of cooling the intake is just the ticket. It worked on WWII fighters and it functions perfectly here. I would do it again in a second.
      Now I'm thinking of turning a wee bit smaller pulley :G

      I'll see if I can get me acoupla extra pounds out of it now that the "hose" is hooked up to it ::)

     Dan :beer:
     
    Any body got a Kevlar head gasket?
     
  20. Photoman

    Photoman SILVER Star

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    My problem was overheating and the reason to try to water injection mod. Since I probably won't have the cruiser back together till December we will have to look to Dan and Mike for updates on their systems.
    Bill