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Water damage to 2F

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by cwb, Aug 5, 2003.

  1. cwb

    cwb

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    I've let my '87 60 sit for close to a year, and in the meantime, it got water in the cylinders. Honestly, I'm really not sure how. Anyway, I've pulled off the head and had it rebuilt, but I'm wondering about the integrity of the cylinders. I took some WD40 and a wire brush attached to my drill and got out the rust, but a couple of the cylinder walls have a slight indentation line that goes most of the way or all the way around the cylinder wall that I think was where the top of the water was. It's hard to see with the eye but is easy to feel. Also, the top of the block has a few spots on the edges that are ever so slightly irregular (orange peel texture) that may have also been caused by water.

    So, bottom line: Do I need to pull the whole stinkin' block out and have it decked and have the cylinders bored, or should I make sure all the rust is gone, slap the freshly rebuilt head back on and try my luck?

    Thanks!

    Chris
     
  2. dd113

    dd113

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    Try your luck. Head will be fine. You will lose compression ut it will depend where in the cyl the rust line is. I would try it out and then do a compression test.
     
  3. bernefj60

    bernefj60

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    I would recommend against building the motor and just hoping.

    Drop the pan, and push the pistons out through the top of the block. have a buddy catch them. The rings are likely damaged as well. Replace the rings (call Pacific lift parts - $130) and bearings and hone the bores. you can buy an hone at any auto parts store. Have a machine shop clean the pistons and install the rings. It's cheap insurance. When you remove the pistons, use a sharpie to indicate the front of the motor in relation to the piston, and be sure to number each one. The machine shop will appreciate this. As a rule, though, the notch in the piston goes toward the front. If you've already got the head off, it's easy. The hardest part is getting the oil pan off, and then back on. i won't lie, it's a bitch. The rest is easy.

    there's no need to pull the crank.

    I just did this in my 40 (in front of my house - no garage) and i can tell you it's not hard. It'll take a week, just becasue you'll wait for the parts and the machine shop, but otherwise, actual time invested is not alot.

    Good luck, HTH

    Rob
     
  4. bernefj60

    bernefj60

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    perspective pic. :D
     
  5. dd113

    dd113

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    Bernefj60 I just dont agree. it sounds like a major wast of time to me. The motor will be fine as is unless major rust ate into the walls. Even if it did a hone will not fix it. Bearings wear to the journals. Sounds good to replace them but they will not be sized correctly unless the crank was either ground or polished. It is a good short term fix to get a few more miles out of a well worn motor. What do you do if you get a piston out and find out it is all beat to hell and slopping around in there? Pull the motor? It seems to me that if it ran good before you only have a few hours to lose by putting the head on and getting it to run then doing a compression test. If it runs like crap or has low compression then you can pull the whole motor and do a proper rebuild. I do admire you pulling the bottom end on the street.
     
  6. cwb

    cwb

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    Thanks for the advise, guys. I think I'll go ahead and slap the head on and see what she does. If I can get a few more miles out of it, I'll rebuild the rest next year. If not, I'll be doing it a little sooner!

    CWB
     
  7. bernefj60

    bernefj60

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    David, et al.

    Here's why i suggested re-ringing it.

    If there was enough water in the cylinders to forma rust line on the cylinder wall, it stands to reason that the CAST IRON rings, probably suffered a similar fate. pitted rings = poor oil control.

    Bearings do indeed wear to the journals, but they are also suseptible to water damage, and, if you're replacing the rings, you need new, stock sized bearings. In V type engines, bearing wear is more pronounced than in the stock motors. Don't ask me why, just an observation on my part.

    It's a pain, but it's cheap insurance. If you run it as is, you'll be doing this anyway in a month or two. As far as the hone not taking out the rust lines, i disagree, and hone is pretty good about renewing the crosshatching and cleaning up the cylinder walls. As an aside, checking for a ridge at the top of the cylinder by runing a fingernail up and over the top edge of the cylinder. If it catches, you'l need a ridge reamer.

    Two choices: Take your chances, run it, and run the risk of having to pull your NEW head in a few weeks or months. Or do the job now.

    Good luck
    Rob
     
  8. dd113

    dd113

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    Rob, I get your point I just dont agree. A re ring is almost never an option for me. A full rebuild is easier and takes about the same amount of time. I agree he very well might be pulling the motor back out; but maybe not. What does he hurt by trying?
     
  9. bernefj60

    bernefj60

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    Nothing, i guess. Just time. Re-ringing it is easy, onl;y reason i suggested it. It's a three days job, including the machine work. and you don't have to pull the motor. I agree that rebuilding the motor is a good idea, but sometimes that's not always an option. Slapping the head on and ignoring the problem might work. Never know.

    Either way, i wish him luck. :)

    Rob
     
  10. bernefj60

    bernefj60

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    Nothing, i guess. Just time. Re-ringing it is easy, onl;y reason i suggested it. It's a three days job, including the machine work. and you don't have to pull the motor. I agree that rebuilding the motor is a good idea, but sometimes that's not always an option. Slapping the head on and ignoring the problem might work. Never know.

    Either way, i wish him luck. :)

    Rob
     
  11. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    One concern I have about running it the way it is is as it stands the block and reciprocating assembly are probably salvagable. If something is not right and the engine is started you could POSSIBLY damage the block or crank beyond repair. Be cautous.
     
  12. Dan

    Dan

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    I have a 4runner that sat with water in the cylinders for monthes and got rust in the cylinders. I just cleaned the cylinder walls with steel wool, blew them out with compressed air (lots of air, didn't want to leave anything behind) then put it together checked compression (one cylinder wasabout 9 psi off of the other three). This was last wednesday, and I just got back from a 1000 mile trip to pick up a 2F in my 4 Runner. I'd say that if you lack the time, money, skills, or facilities to pull your engine and rebuild it, put it together and see what you get. But start saving your money, because you are probably going to worry every time a rock kicks up and makes a noise, you'll think your engine is ready to blow even if it is fine.