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V-8 or 2F, tired tranny in a FJ60?

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by FJ40_Spokane, Dec 26, 2002.

  1. FJ40_Spokane

    FJ40_Spokane

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    Maybe the board can settle this question. A buddy in our local 4 WD Toyota club is a diehard 2F fan. His tranny is on the way out on his 83' or 84'( can't remember) FJ60. His engine also has over 200k on it. We figured that the engine might go another 50K based on a compression test only and it uses oil.

    My advice was to call it quits and swap in a V-8 and a chevy automatic( who knows what model), and a NP 205 transfer case. If he had the money, try for a fuel injected setup. I argued that it could be done for under $4000 start to finish with a local expert mechanic that charges $25 an hour and who's reputation is superb. Also we have no smog in our county and this is his second car behind a company car. So he can leave it for 3 months to be built to the hilt.

    So the question is

    1) Am I wrong to suggest the V-8 swap with a 3/4 worn out 2F and a blown tranny? (He says get the tranny rebuilt and then later the 2f rebuilt also.)

    2) Can it be done under $4000. (He says $6k or over)

    Hey if I'm wrong please let me have it but I truly think my side has merit. (We bet 12 malted beverages on the outcome.)

    Thanks in advance,

    AR

    Spokane, WA
     
  2. Mavric1298

    Mavric1298

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    It totally depends on what you want to put as far as money goes. You could spend up to 10-11k if ya really wanted to (new vortect etc etc etc), or as im finding out, you can do it for a profit if ya get lucky (finding a good running car, takin the engine/tranny out and selling the rest, which my friend just did, and ended up 200 bucks up) Some of the basic prices i have found out are around 1399 for a dealer crate 350. Hope this helps a little, i would say GO V-8!
     
  3. woody

    woody Internet Fireman Staff Member

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    $4k won't cut it....not with shop labor in there. And the 205 is a centered output t-case, so plan a new rear axle too....

    IMO, dropping in a carbed 350 with a 350 automatic mated to a rebuilt 60-series t-case would fit in the $4k range, but you best plan your own labor.

    $800 for a decent rebuilt/used motor
    $1000 in adapters
    $500 for a decent rebuilt/used automatic
    $200 to rebuild the existing t-case
    $300 in driveshaft changes
    $200 in misc wiring
    $300 in exhaust (or more)

    10 hours to pull existing setup cleanly...40 hours+ to reinstall motor with wiring, exhaust, shafts, etc. and do it correctly.

    50 hours x $25/hour = $1250 round up to $1500 for extras

    add in the $3300 from above and you are at $4800....rough numbers, of course....and little stuff like replacement alternators and starters and such add up quickly....
     
  4. devo

    devo

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    I just went through all of this myself. Keep the 2F vs V8. After all was said and done it was cheeper to go Vortec in my '84 FJ60 than it was to rebuild and hypo the 2F.
    I bought a complete '97 5.7 Vortec with 30k miles for $1900 bucks and doing all of the work myself, exept the harness and recompute the VCM I'll have about 6k into it and much more hp and torque for the $$$. I am worried that I may miss that 2F under the hood though. I already have a H55 trans but may change to the NV4500. I'm not into the auto trans (yet). Does he want my H55f?
    Good luck, it's a very philosophical decision!
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I want an h55f, how many miles, price, location and how many miles on t/c
     
  6. FJ40_Spokane

    FJ40_Spokane

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    I called him. He wants to know where the H55 is located? How many miles? and price please?

    Thanks
     
  7. onesprung60

    onesprung60

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    My 2F has just over 200K and is still running extremely well, with a few mild performance modifications. I would never think about swapping a V8. With a little shopping it is still cheaper to rebuild/replace the 2F than it is to convert to another engine when the swap is done correctly by a shop. Especially if you factor in the labor, BTW $25 an hour seems extremely low for a professional shop to charge, most of the fabrication/conversion shops in the Salt Lake area are closer to $50-60 an hour. My money would be for a H55f tranny swap and then rebuild the 2F when the time comes. If you consider off-road as well I can almost guarantee my 2F crawls better off-road than 95% of the V8's out there, I can crawl around at 300 RPM's all day, none of the V8's I wheel with can do that.
     
  8. Mavric1298

    Mavric1298

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    Im sorry but i strongly disagree with what onesprung60 just said. First off, you can covert to a v8 for very very little money, its not that hard to do esp if you use stock trans. with something AA to do yourself. Also, parts for a 2f are so much more expensive, compaired to cheap parts for something like a chevy v8.
     
  9. onesprung60

    onesprung60

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    I can rebuild a 2F with quality aftermarket parts for $1000. That is doing everything the right way with machine work to bore & hone, deck the cylinder head, check and replace valves, etc. That is with no labor. By the time you buy an engine, adapters, motor mounts, brackets and all of the other componenents needed to do a 350 swap the 2F is still a cheaper option. If you include labor for a fabrication shop retaining the 2F is a lot cheaper. Sure a V8 has more horsepower but less useable torque, unless you are constantly towing with a Land Cruiser a 2F is the only way to go. With a little manipulation a 2F can run pretty well with most of the V8's on the highway, not to mention a 2F builds maximum torque at 1800 RPM, good luck getting a V8 to build max torque that low. Additionally if you look at the "average" 2F most of them have well over 200K and are still running strong. A majority of the older 350's are going to need rebuilding every 100k or less. Just my opinion but my money is on a strong 2F. And if anyone is wondering I am a strong Toyota purist, sure some of the stuff isn't the greatest but I don't think too many motors have an advantage as far as longevity.
     
  10. crawlin60

    crawlin60

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    Will has a good point here. Doing one's own labor for everything but the actual machine work can make a 2F rebuild (or any motor's for that matter) seem cheap. BUT the chevy won't be on par with the 2F for reliability OR longevity. Case in point, a coworker of mine is still trying to debug his 99 5.3 Vortec (got it for ~$2k with auto trans and harness) that he put in his YJ heep a year ago (BTW, he also paid $400 for the Howell harness, $500 for the rebuild on the trans, $1k for the 4:1 xfer, to that add drive$hafts, computer reprogram, and a number of extras that I don't remember now). IMHO for the $$ he's put into it, (ya it's still a heep :D, I know) he shoulda had something better running than what he's got. I don't trust GM electronics to last a long time, or survive a good dunking (ECM, sensors, relays, fuel pump), both key considerations for me. The heep I mentioned is not the only one that I know of that has teething pains after a GM transplant. On the plus side, it's a smooth powerful engine that if all components do what they're supposed to, gives you mid to high teen mpg and will be easily serviced (abundant (not cheap) supply points partswise). Incidentally, the heep owner dumped his HO 4.0L I6(high CR, cam, headers, etc) thinking a stock 5.3 V8 would be more powerful, but guess what! it ain't :D
    For your budget of ~$2k I'd say your choices are limited to keeping the 2F, maybe getting a used lo mile motor from Japan (a clean drop-in) or doing your own labor to overhaul the motor. If it were me, I'd save my pennies and go diesel, preferably a lo mile complete powertrain (Toyota) or along the lines of Royal Rose's td cummins pig.
    YMMV, it's all good anyway
     
  11. RHINO

    RHINO

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    the diesel debate has been going for a long time, diesel IS expensive, even more than the gm v-8 swap. but thats a different topic.

    on to the original Q, and more importantly who wins beer.
    1) IMHO i dont think you are wrong to suggest a v-8 for a 3/4 worn 2F. but does he want a v-8 and/or does he not like the 2F?

    2) i dont think the swap can be done for 4K by a shop. to properly settle this though, i think you guys should take his rig down and let them get the engine swap done, then when its all ready to be put back on the road YOU pay anything abouve 4K,,,, sound good??

    i think you owe your buddy some beer my friend, not to say your wrong, but it wont be as simple as you are thinking.

    so, this has turned into a bit of a 2F vs. v-8 thread, which is good because i have come into some cruiser money and have been thinking the same thing over. i prefer the 302FI ford myself, and i will be doing all the fab work myself which will keep costs down. but i am still planning $2500 ish for the whole thing... i am really only looking for a better top end on the hiway and the 2F does a pretty good job despite pushing 36's. i am really leaning to putting just a bit of ooomph into the 2F and foregoing the v-8. i might even to a TBI on it.
    i really think the 2F is an adequte engine if you dont expect to race around, and i think straight 6 engines are about the best thing going for all around realistic power and smoothness. so i am leaning toward keeping the 2F, thinking about TBI, a mild cam and header. that should give the push i need on the open road and keep the low revving reliability on the trail.

    p.s. i think you owe your buddy some beer