TrollHole Cruisers Carb Install on a 60 (3 Viewers)

[Slow Left]

I think the way it is supposed to work is that when the engine is running, vac is pulled on the VCV which opens the VCV.
With the VCV open, fresh air from inside the cabin of the vehicle is pulled through the dizzy cap, into the air filter housing and then into the carb.
When the engine is off, vac is released from the VCV and the VCV closes.
With the VCV closed, fumes from the Carb cannot make their way back down under the dizzy cap, causing corrosion and the build up of moisture.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Air is pulled from the cabin, through the dizzy cap, into the air cleaner for a reason, and that reason is to keep moisture out of the dizzy.

Yes, you can put a regular vent on it, but don't be surprised when your dizzy guts rust up solid.

You can bypass the VSV (if you don't have one) and hook one port on the dizzy cap to the air cleaner. Make sure to connect the other port to the cab, down near where the windshield washer bottle is. That's the factory connection.

 

[onemanarmy]

Ok. I'll look again today and get some pics of what I've been looking at and trying to figure out. Thanks for the advice.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

To expand on what @Slow Left was saying above, if you connect the dizzy to the intake without the VSV, then it's possible that crankcase gases will vent back to the dizzy. This might cause a small "backfiring" sound in the cab, if you have the vent connected to the firewall. AFAIK, it's harmless.

 

[Slow Left]

Yeah, without the VCV installed, your best option is to run the hose from the air filter on the firewall (PS behind washer bottle) to the dizzy cap and then another hose from the dizzy cap to the air cleaner, as @GLTHFJ60 points out. You'll probably have to plug the vac line that modulates the VCV to prevent a vac leak.

If you are going to install a VCV, posts #983 and #984 in this thread show stock installation:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/my-desmog-thread.188643/page-50#post-9393451

Some other threads on the topic of VCV:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/distributor-cap-vent-vcv-issue.639725/#post-8019268
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/distributor-cap-exploded.372078/
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/strange-noise-smell.266427/#post-4138566
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/mystery-hose.154349/#post-2162615

 

[onemanarmy]

Did some more digging.....and I found the VCV. Happy days. Also found the firewall/cabin air intake for the dizzy cap....didn't know it was that far in the corner, I was looking near the AC drain. Located here, for anyone curious...(behind the washer fluid reservoir....mine is out at the moment)



So, began hooking up the dizzy vent lines per the diagrams (not sure if my VCV is any good).....where do I route for manifold vacuum? Would this port work? It's 'capped' at the moment....



Wonder what this hose is for? Needed?



One more...there are two vacuum ports on the dist. cap......which one is ideal to run to the bottom of the Trollhole carb? I have the 'smaller' one capped now



I think I've about got it. Thanks for all the insight.

 

[Slow Left]

So, began hooking up the dizzy vent lines per the diagrams (not sure if my VCV is any good).....where do I route for manifold vacuum? Would this port work? It's 'capped' at the moment....

Yes, that component in this image you show above is called the "Gas Filter" and is a source for manifold vac.

In fact, if you go back and take a look at that .pdf set of vac/emission routings I posted up for you previously, you will see that the VCV for the dizzy taps it's vac from one of the metal pipes at the front of the engine (right below the oil cap on the valve cover)...and that metal pipe works it's way over to the driver's side where there probably was a 3mm vac hose from the end of that metal pipe leading to one of those 3 fittings on the top of the Gas Filter. So, you can figure out which of those metal pipes is the correct one on each end and fill in the gaps with 3mm hose, or you could directly route from the VCV to the gas filter, but then you've got a hose looping over the valve cover...

In yellow below is the hose that leads from the VCV to the metal pipe at the front of the valve cover...you'll have to find out where it comes out on the other side by applying vac or blowing through it...

 

[Slow Left]

To test whether the VCV is working correctly, see the procedure in the Emissions FSM:

 

[Slow Left]

Wonder what this hose is for? Needed?

That hose connects on this end (the open end in the image) to the VCV for the EVAP which has been removed. EDIT: Correction, I have made a mistake. This hose used to connect directly to the the fuel bowl on the Aisin carb...I don't think the Trollhole carb has this fitting.

...and then the other end of that hose connects to a hard pipe on the DS firewall, which routes over to the PS and connects to the (EDIT: Outer Control Vent Valve on top of the) Charcoal Canister by another hose. You can confirm this by disconnecting the hose at the Charcoal Cannister and blowing through it...air should come out this hose end.
The VCV for the EVAP regulates the flow of gas fumes to be sent to the manifold or filtered in the charcoal cannister. (EDIT: this is true, it just isn't relevant since this hose doesn't connect to the VCV...your post below shows the VCV correctly routed.

After the desmog, I would assume that the fumes just vent through the cannister... (EDIT: I'm not sure where the fuel bowl vents on a Trollhole carb)

More importantly, the hose that connects to the intake manifold pipe right below the carb (in the very left margin of the image)...where do you have the other end connected to right now? If it is open to air, that will be a major vac leak...

 

[onemanarmy]

The hose that connects to the bottom of the carb is connected to one of the vacuum switches on the fender. I'll get a pic and double check the diagram. Its been connected, I was trying to close off all the open ends first and then compare to the diagrams posted

 

[Slow Left]

One more...there are two vacuum ports on the dist. cap......which one is ideal to run to the bottom of the Trollhole carb? I have the 'smaller' one capped now



I think I've about got it. Thanks for all the insight.

Those are the vac advance ports for the dizzy. The inner one (closest to the dizzy...the one you have the hose routed to) is the primary vac advance port. It is routed correctly if it leads to the primary vac adance port on the carb...
The outer one (the one furthest from the dizzy....the one you have capped) is the secondary port and is usually routed to the HAC valve...the High Altitude Compensation valve...to add an additional 6* vac advance about ~4,000 ft. elevation.

 

[Slow Left]

The hose that connects to the bottom of the carb is connected to one of the vacuum switches on the fender. I'll get a pic and double check the diagram. Its been connected, I was trying to close off all the open ends first and then compare to the diagrams posted

Hmm.. Yeah, take a picture and post it up...

 

[onemanarmy]

Couple pics as it sits....





One BVSV is capped...(the more rearward one)



The other BVSV.....one port is open and one port goes to the vaccum valve that is pictured.

For the manifold vacuum for the dizzy cap, I'll run the hose under the air cleaner housing and it will be out of the way. All of the metal piping is gone from the front of the valve cover.

Is that port below the carb hooked properly to the VSV?

Thanks again

 

[Slow Left]

Couple pics as it sits....









Is that port below the carb hooked properly to the VSV?

Yes, this looks correct. I have edited post #69 to correct an error I made earlier.

The port below the carb (the pipe coming out of the insulator gasket (between the carb and intake manifold) that curves up connects to the VCV just like you show in the picture.
The other large hose that connects to the hard pipe below the Power Brake Booster at the DS firewall leads over to the top of the charcoal cannister.
You'll have to confirm where the two smaller hoses route, again, one of them (the one on the black part of the VCV) is going to be the one that is vac operated.

 

[Slow Left]

One BVSV is capped...(the more rearward one)



The other BVSV.....one port is open and one port goes to the vaccum valve that is pictured.

BVSV(1) is the upper one.
BVSV(2) is the lower one.

The BVSV (Bi-Metallic Switching Valve) is a temperture actuated switch. When the coolant temperature heats up, the metal in the BVSV heats up and changes it's properties, allowing for vac to be drawn through it. When it is cold it is closed.

BVSV(1) and BVSV(2) are different colors, indicating that they open at different temperatures. For specs and troubleshooting, see Emissions FSM.

Most people bypass them during desmog, since they have more to do with fuel efficiency/emissions right at start up, but once the engine temp opens them, they remain open until the engine is shut off and has cooled down sufficiently...

But, if you are going to continue to use the VCV on the EVAP system (has nothing to do with the VCV on the dizzy ventilation system, although the two VCV parts are identical and can be swapped out if one is not working properly), then you should make sure that it is seeing vac.

The decision whether or not to continue to use the VCV for the EVAP system depends on 'how' you want to do the desmog. For more detailed instructions of what most folks here on MUD do, see the .pdf attached and the "My Desmog Thread":

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/my-desmog-thread.188643/

Here is an image of the stock routing (fully smogged):

 

[onemanarmy]

Ive read through most of that 50 page Desmog thread, and tried to keep up. So much misinformation (that Jim tries to correct) and mostly deals with the stock carb. There are quite a few more vacuum ports on the stock carb even after the desmog that are still used. The Trollhole only has 2 vacuum ports, and that is where it gets confusing.

If the BVSV aren't needed, and I'm beginning to believe they are not, then they will be going away. Also, it appears that the three nipples on the air filter cover can be capped as well, which will negate the need for the VCV on that side.

As I dig down deeper.....It appears that all a Trollhole install needs is to connect the port on the bottom of the carb to something, dizzy vacuum advance connected to carb, and the hose that comes off the charcoal canister hooked to something ( I still don't know to where, but I'll look at my printed out diagrams this afternoon)

My 55 has a Trollhole carb, and has 3 vacuum lines. So nice to look at.

This is a pic posted on page 1 of a "completed" Trollhole install. It appears that this person just capped the hose coming from the charcoal canister and still has some of the stock smog equipment in place (red circles)

Looks like a halfway attempt at a desmog, and confuses people.

 

[onemanarmy]

I think if I figure this last one out, I'll be good.

I have no idea if this is hooked up right, and if the VCV is working (will test per FSM)

But, where would I hook the hose from the bottom of the carb to if the VCV was eliminated?

 

[Slow Left]

As I dig down deeper.....It appears that all a Trollhole install needs is to connect the port on the bottom of the carb to something, dizzy vacuum advance connected to carb

Yes, from what I have read about Trollhole carbs, this is correct...the only ported vac at the base of the carb is for the primary vac advance at the dizzy...

But, where would I hook the hose from the bottom of the carb to if the VCV was eliminated?

Ah, this was the reason I asked about that hose...one option would be to cap that pipe coming out of the insulator. You could get caps like these at any aftermarket auto parts store:

That pipe is built into the insulator, no way to remove it. Not sure if other folks have brazed it shut or rerouted it somewhere else (you might have to search through those desmog documents again or even start up a new thread asking folks what they have done).

FWIW, with respect to the EVAP system (charcoal cannister), it think that most folks just swap the two hoses that come of the top of the cannister so that fumes from the gas tank vent directly out the bottom of the charcoal cannister....then it doesn't really matter if you plug that open hose on the DS that used to lead to the fuel bowl on the Aisin carb...

 

[Slow Left]

I think if I figure this last one out, I'll be good.

I have no idea if this is hooked up right,

View attachment 1057700

Right, if you look at the diagram I posted up in #75, you'll see that the VCV for the EVAP draws it's vac (the small 3mm port on the black part of the VCV) from the "Advancer port" on the base of the Aisin Carb, by way of passing through BVSV(1). You will also notice on that diagram that the primary vac advance port shares the same vac circuit.
Why not eliminate BSVS(1) completely and T your VCV EVAP (if it is function correctly) vac line into the same vac line coming from the primary advance port at the base of the Trollhole carb that you are routing over to the primary vac advance port on the dizzy? Practically the same as the Aisin, except without the BVSV(1)?

 

[Slow Left]

If the BVSV aren't needed, and I'm beginning to believe they are not, then they will be going away.

If you aren't going to route any vac lines through a BVSV, you can either remove the BVSV and then plug the hole in the thermostat housing (do a search in the 60 section for the size of the threaded plug and be sure to use a sealant on the threads) or you can just leave it in there. No need to plug the two vac ports in it (unless you want to keep dirt out) because if there aren't any vac lines attached to either port, there can't be a vac leak on the other port: