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toyota,black death sludge, and motor oil

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by archie, Jul 6, 2003.

  1. archie

    archie

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    on a recent disscusion about motor oils, I noticed that some people metioned some sludge problems with late model toyota cars. I just wanted to share info. which I found with similar owners of the Sienna.http://www.carsurvey.org/model_Toyota_Sienna.html. Has anybody had any other problems/experiences with other toyota products. thanks for your feed back. 88fj62 and 95corolla.
     
  2. RETREVR

    RETREVR

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    It sounds like the sienna had some problems.
    I found this to be interesting:

    "Problem is, we developed a sludge problem at 18000 miles. We had had three oil changes by this time"

    I don't know about you, but if I run oil for 6k miles in any of my cars, it is not going to be pretty. I don't care what the Euros say.
    It is like complaining that your French girlfriend smells bad even though she showers twice a week.
     
  3. cary

    cary

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    Archie,

    The black death problem is a problem affecting late 90's through 2002 (I think) Toyota 4 cylinder and V-6 motors. The problem is a result of the gear drives for the cams being cut in such a way that they literally shear the oil and break it down at a very fast pace. I would check bobistheoilguy.com for specifics. The recommendation is that if you run mineral oil on these to change it every 2500-3000 miles and synthetics every 5000-6000.

    RETRVR,

    WTF with your statement about "the euros" and the French. I assume that you haven't been to Europe. When I was in Paris in 2000 I didn't run into any french women that smelled, much less in England, Italy, or Germany. Your new to the list, so I will remind you that many of the members of this list are from places outside the US.

    Concerning your statement about 6000 miles on Mineral Oil, I will take you task on that. Depending on the conditions, type of driving, oil capicity, engine design of an engine 6000 miles on Mineral Oil is not unreasonable. Example, all you do is drive the car once a week from San Francisco to Seattle, no problem. An extreme example would be long haul truckers who run mineral oil regularly for 25,000+ miles. Large oil capacity, good filtration, long runs with the oil at operating temperature all add up to long oil life.

    Another example would be Porsche 911 engines which run 5000-7500 miles on an oil change with mineral oil. These engines are very hard on oil (think air cooled), but due to the fact they hold about 14 quarts of oil, it is not a problem.

    Cary

    Rant mode off, flame suit on. :p
     
  4. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    I don't know, I though it was funny just like the Aus. make fun of us americans for getting all all excited about a sticker.

    I haven't read the bob oil guy site but I do know that factory recommended oil change on my 2003 Honda Element that I bought yesterday is 10000 for the first , and every 10000 thereafter (5000 for severe) and that is with 5w20 (I think) mineral oil. Many people are skeptical of this, but I have had several Hondas (160k mi) and everyone in my family has had at least one, never had an engine problem on any of them and I generally followed recommended oil change intervals, switched to synth when I got smart. All that to say, though some may question it, Honda engineers have earned my trust, so I tend to believe 'em. Though with free oil changes from the dealer every 3k for the first 50k I will not turn them down.

    The Element is for the wife, I still have the 80 ::)
     
  5. Jim_Phillips

    Jim_Phillips

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    RETRVR

    LOL, I for one can confirm that French women, although often beautiful, tend to smell - and as a rule, don't shower very often.

    As you may know I live in the UK. I would have taken exception to a slur on the British, but as this was only pointed at the French, I think we can all have a good laugh at their expense.

    I don't think it is necessary that Cary should have first hand experience of French women, just in the same way that I know for a fact that Belgium is a very boring country - although I have never been there myself.

    Jim
     
  6. scottm

    scottm

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    I think my Sienna specified 7500 mile oil intervals. After two years of 5000 mile intervals I did get a gritty, tar-like substance from the crankcase at an oil change. Refilled with dino-oil I had for the occasion, turned in the lease early and bought my wife the second 80. No prob. One of my brothers has a Sienna and runs M1, no problems so far.
     
  7. SeanAndHis80

    SeanAndHis80

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    Yeah, but in Belgium your only a short train ride away from Amsterdam - now that place is fun! :D

    BTW: Congrats on getting the 80 back!
     
  8. Brentbba

    Brentbba Former Golfer SILVER Star

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    Interesting, I'd heard of this shortly b4 getting the wife a Lexus GS300. They recommend oil changes every 5K with dino. The GS300 has a 6 in it. Supposedly the issue was resolved and just found it a little odd that on my LC, the recommended interval is 7500 and after this sludge problem, the factory is now recommending a 5000 interval. Makes you wonder just a little. Basic CYA?
     
  9. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    The GS300 has a straight six (2JZGE). No gear drive there. It be a timing belt driving both cams, not just one.
     
  10. Brentbba

    Brentbba Former Golfer SILVER Star

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    They why the shorter interval on oil changes? Thanks for the info Dan.
     
  11. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Dunno there.

    7,500 is just too dang long IMHO anyway. I'm a 3,000 mile kinda guy. ;)
     
  12. Brentbba

    Brentbba Former Golfer SILVER Star

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    Dan, lots of folks are. I've always done it at 7500 and I think only twice/three times in 9 years have I ever added oil and I've generally thought maybe just a slight underfill was the reason. Oil on dipstick has always looked very clean and there's never been any other indication of oil consumption. Have been considering, given age of the LC, beginning to do it more frequently - as 'they' say, it's cheap insurance!
     
  13. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Well I spent almost 2 months there and can tell you that the women are mostly sled dogs and rarely bathe. Why else would the men spend so much time brewing great beer, drinking said brew and recovering from drinking said brew :D.
     
  14. Jim_Phillips

    Jim_Phillips

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    On the subject of oil changes I personally feel that if the manufacturer suggestes a 10,000 mile interval then that's good enough for me. Obviously we're all free to change sooner if time and money are to hand.

    My Audi A6 had a 20,000 mile service (oil change) interval.

    I couldn't agree more about Belgium Beer - some of the best in the world. Undoubtably Amsterdam has its own attractions.
    At least we all seem to agree about the French.

    Jim
     
  15. Eduardo96FZJ80

    Eduardo96FZJ80

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    So, then with a new Sienna with the V-6 would it be a good idea to use the synthetic oils and stay with 3-5k intervals??
    ??? ???
     
  16. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Eduardo,

    Good dino oil like say Valvoline or the like and 3K intervals would probably do you just fine. Be sure to replace the PCV valve at the recomended intervals as well.

    I have changed the oil in the Cruiser EVERY 3,000 miles since day one. Valvoline All Climate 10-30. (I just switched to All Fleet 15-40). When I had the valve cover off at 93,320 miles the insides still looked new. NO sign of varnishing or sludge.
     
  17. cary

    cary

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    1) Concerning manufacture recommended oil change periods, they are often optimistic. I would not recommend running any synthetic beyond 7500 miles without a regular oil analysis. If you look at the oil analysis reports on bobistheoilguy.com you will see that depending on the car, driving style, oil capicity, and oil used, the top quality synthetics (Mobil, Redline, and Amsoil true synthetic) are lasting between 7500 miles and 15000 miles, with most nearing the end of their life between 10,000 and 12,000 miles. By the time you get to 20,000 miles the oil is beyond its useful life, and not protecting your engine as it should. If you are only going to keep the car until 80,000 miles, it will likely not effect you, but if you want the engine to last, don't go that long.


    2) With the Sienna you should be fine using a good synthetic (Mobil 1 or Redline) and 5000 mile changes. Stay with the manufactures recommended weight so you don't invalidate the warrantee if there is a problem.

    3) Concerning 3,000 mile oil changes, if you are running synthetic it is a waste of time and resources. By running a Synthetic between 5000 and 7500 you will likely save money as changing mineral oil at 3000 when you factor in oil cost, filter cost, and labor for changing. Also you will be using less resources and creating less waste (God, I'm starting to sound like a tree-hugger).

    BTW, Mobil 1 is on sale at Target right now for $4.29/quart.

    Cary
     
  18. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Cary,

    There is a VERY lonely Pinion tree in my backyard as we speak ::) .

    I completely agree with you about not using synthetics if you change every 3k miles. I'll further admit that I am hard-headed and could not bring myself to leave ANY oil in a motor longer than that. I would lay awake all night listening to you snuggle up to my tree :D . So, I guess I am doomed to run dino oil.............

    Dan.
     
  19. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    I get my Mobil1 at BJs Warehouse club at just over $23.00 a case of 6 all day every day.
     
  20. Eduardo96FZJ80

    Eduardo96FZJ80

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    Humm,
    I guess that no matter what kind of oil you use, the key is to change it regularly ::)