Toyota 80 mechanical winch /PTO, on 70 (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Threads
21
Messages
796
Location
Milano - Italy
Hi guys , I don't have an 80 , but a 7 series 78 troppie

the reason I would like to mount a 80 mechanical winch is :
I swapped the motor from 1HZ to HD-T
and now I am in the process to change also the gearbox , differentials ecc.
with this gear box, I can mount the original mechanical winch .

the winch is very similar to the 40 series , but with some improvements in my opinion .
in general it is lighter , the brake is inside ,
to action the winch there is a lever more friendly .
most important the sheer pin collar is much bigger , so you can drill a nice 6 mm sheer pin hole .
if needed also a 7 mm .
the front roller is a bit smaller .
same brass /worm gear system.
the PTO , has 10 bolts instead of 6 .
inside the PTO is very similar , but no gear is constantly turning .
to engage the PTO you need to pull a cable under the steering wheel.
in general I would say the PTO system is more simple , lighter and still reliable, so better.
the dimensions of the deum are almost same , but the depth is certainly reduced .
the holding bars are not behind and in from like the 40 series .
there is a special double plate that runs under , and the roller plate in front that holds the winch.
you should be able to understand better from my pictures.
sorry for the poor description.
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but we lost the possibility to attach a handle to front of the worm shaft .

I bought it second hand ,it was barely used in 25 years , the steel cable is practically new.
to my surprise the inside had a very dense oil , still in very good condition , I think .....
the density and color was like honey.
BUT ...there was 1 big issue , because it never turned for so many years , and sat inoperative , the oil was sitting on the bottom.
the area above the oil had many areas with RUST .
some hard work in brushing and sanding all rusty parts , and the winch is back in good shape.

other Photos will follow soon , on how this winch is inside .

bye Renago
 
If like to see the handle that you were attaching to the worm shaft. I've been meaning to make one but never seem to find the time.

Nice find with the 80 winch. I do think it also came on later 70 series too.

Sounds like you've been busy!

Pete
 
I was looking for parts as I would like to fit the universal joint with the shear pin on my 40 series winch if it allows more room to drill a larger hole. Would you post a picture of it. Is it the same diameter hole as the 40 series?

I like the shaft arrangement better than the 40 series- except that it seems there are no replacement u-joints available.

Pete
 
hi Pete

This winch came only on 80 series , because the PTO is completely different .
see Photo here under .
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I had a 40 series winch before , and wanted to install it on my 78.
But after thinking that the weak link of the system is the shear pin , I changed .
sold the old winch and bought this one .
the drive shaft is in 3 parts , instead of two .

here som photos of the inside :

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I would be interested on how the drum is engaged inside. The shaft moving in and out on the side is another place to leak. While the older style didn't have a shaft seal that could leak it was exposed to the elements and more likely seize up. Also noticed it has a breather on top where the older style was a solid fill plug. The plug is use for the fill level but lower down. Do you think the one you got was low on oil or doesn't use as much oil?

I've never had a issue with a PTO leaking where it attaches to the T case with just six bolts. Curious if the ten bolts has to do with the weight of the larger 80 series. Most PTOs for the split T case were single direction and the drive gear only engaged when the PTO was in use. These also only use a bushing for this gear instead of ball bearing. Is this a two direction or single direction and bearing or bushing? The 4X series used a cable to shift on the 81/82 models then switch back solid lever/shaft system. As far as I know the 6X/7X series both used the lever/shaft thru the 1990 models. Curious if the change was the redesigned console that ran all the way towards the front on the 80 series with less room for a shifter or was done as a improvement.
 
Actually my mistake. I meant the winch was also available for the 70 series.

That is a very nice machine. Way nicer than it probably needs to be! The bearing surfaces are massive- especially in comparison to the early winch.
Is the bearing surface on the right side of the drum also able to be lubricated?

The brakes- there are 3? Still in perfect condition with the factory number stamped on the surface. Again a major improvement.

If you can- pictures of the splined engagement shaft. I see the female splines within the ring gear but I'm not understanding the relationship to the drum. A picture of the engagement shaft removed would be exciting to see.

Is there concern of water entering the drum in the case of deep water crossings?

Very nice!
 
Also the shafts that push on the brake shoes- are the spring loaded riding on a ball?

Pete
 
hi guys , I'll try to answer all questions.
the drum is 1 piece with the part that goes in the casting.
the shaft that you see , has 3 position :
A locked , pushing the brack shoes through a ball .
B , free to unspool.
C , engaged
the engagement between the drum and the bronze gear is actuated via the small gear that you can see inside the drum .
it is moved via the lever in position C .
hope all is sufficiently clear.
if not don't hesitate to ask ,I will do better .
the drum has a huge oil retainer next to the cast , that holds the oil .
there is no shaft passing into the drum , as it is one piece with the mechanism that does into the cast .
there fore the total weight is much lower .

in a few months I will install it , must change the gear box first .

as soon as I can will post the pictures of the handle of PTO , and drive shaft that need some care .

bye Renago
 
The 10/82 (83 model) 4X series had the three shafts for the PTO winch. 1/79 was the first change when the pillow block bearing move to a bracket mounted to the side frame rail like it on the FJ55. I'm sure the 60/70 were the same three shafts. I've posted pictures of the one used on the 4X series in another thread in this section. The biggest difference I see in the PTO from the single direction split transfer case PTO is the lever for the shifter. The winch is a new design. If it has lock position that doesn't involve the driveline that is big improvement. The old style only way to lock the drum is keep it engaged to the drive gear. It the PTO accidentally gets shifted into gear if your lucky you only snap the shear pin. If the shear pin has been beefed up your likely damaging something a lot more serious. The shift lever on the 10/82 and later 4X series required pushing two buttons at the same time to move it.
 
A locked , pushing the brack shoes through a ball .
B , free to unspool.
C , engaged

I think this should read:

A braked , pushing the brack shoes through a ball .
B , free tounspool.
C , engaged

Looking at the mechanism it seems that there would be a limit to how much load could be applied before the brakes slip.Renago Is this so?
 
you are right Pete , my wording was incorrect , sorry .

the handle to engage the PTO from the cabin is made in a completely different way respect the series 4 .
it is not attached to the floor or near the shift bar , but under the steering wheel.
asap I will post a photo , much easier to understand .
you have to twist and pull the handle.
you can't run with out noticing the handle pulled , it's too obvious and will interfere in a normal driving mode .
I think they made it for security , and to have a cleaner floor look.

but most important the shear pin hole is possible to upgrade to 6 mm , that's what I've done .
even to 7 , without risking any damage to the Ujoint.
 
The shift handle on the 83+ 4X series is the same design as the 6X & 7X series used in the eighties. The 80 series was the start of the center hump no longer part of the floor that someone could rest their feet but rather a plastic cap with the shifters as well as other things. Pretty crowded already without trying to add another shifter. The twist cable was also used on the FJ62 hand throttle which I've never understood why it has one. Certainly not saying anything wrong with the cable just prefer solid linkage. My 68 FJ40 had high/low transfer case shifter located under the dash to the left of the heater and shifted the T case on the right side. It was positive shifting and worked great. 73 brought a radio opening and dash shifter was no longer possible. Believe that's what happened here. These got more complicated and crowded. Cable is easier to route. But instead of just offering a electric winch Toyota continued with a PTO winch which is a real work horse for those who use their winch regularly with long pulls. It's not just the shift linkage it drivelines as well. Hard to find any modern vehicle that free space under the hood is almost impossible to find. Just too bad Toyota stopped importing PTO winches to the US in the last seventies and gave that market to aftermarket electric winches.
 
here under is the cabin shifter , as you can see the system is completely different from the floor lever.
ref the Shear pin hole , mine is a 6 mm hole , but I guess a 7 o even 8 mm could be drilled in .
also in this case , a good improvement from the skinny 40 series.

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I think you'll find the eye for the end of the cable is not available. I could not find anything like it when I added cables to my pto lever and dif locks. The standard available parts have the same diameter eye as the thread post diameters. I made the end of the lever double shear to make up for the reduced strength of a smaller eye.


My explanation is not so good.
You can see it here:

84 bj46 long term maintenance, repair and upgrade- making it mine.
 
Hi Pete
the eye you see in the cable is matching the rubber disk you see on the PTO.
my matching system is quite different from standard Bj 40 OTO.
that's why I have posted the pictures .

in 2 weeks I should have back the car , and potentially can start working on it .
But I going towards a very busy time , so the end result will be not earlier then this summer ,at the best .


Bye Renago
 
Hi guys , sorry for the very long time in updating this thread , but other things got in the way !

At last I was able to fix the winch on the car.
Because the width of Toyota 80 frame is silty wider the 78 , I had to cut aprox 20 mm from 1 side of the panel holding the winch .
I mean the bottom panel.
this is made in a smart way , 2 sheet of steel 2 mm each with a omega form and welded together .
very stiff and jet light .
also the hight of the winch level , or better the shaft was too high for the 78.
so i had to lower the whole system of 25 mm .
this was made with 2 blocjk of aluminium .
in order to keep the front bumper as near as possible to the car , the front retaining mask was custom made .
2 mm stainless steel cut welded , and cut welded again .
to make a perfect job you must do them twice !
sorry for this ugly looking front mask .

here are some photos :
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Now I have to fix the shaft ...
on which I do have some problems with the pillow blocks.
I checked today , and Toyota does NOT give these as a spare part .
so I must try to find a creative solution .
was thinking to cut off the pillow block and make some sort of bushings .
after all the shaft will not rotate at high speed , and only occasionally .
I think this solution could work .

bye Renago
 
as previously said the winch and mounting plate are more or less complete .
today I gave them a nice spray of primer and black paint .
in the next days they will finally be in place.
the real problem is now the SHAFT .
as said before , I am unable to replace the pillow blocks .
they must be changed because of very bad gears .
so today I had to take the decision to girnd them down .
here is how the shaft looks without them .

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as you can see the construction from Toyota will not allow the bearing to be extracted .
At this point what can I do ?
get a Miller to make a custom fit bushing ?
will it last with the shape and material of the shaft ?
any suggestions are very welcome .

bye Renago
 
Slowly , but work is progressing .
here are some pic of the latest steps.
all has been painted with primer and black paint , as similar as possible to the original .
all bolts are or new or renewed .
all bolts are in rather close tolerance , you need to have all half screwed up and then
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tighten .
bumper is original , but not in the original position .
my objective was to contain as much as possible the extent of the front bumper .
at the end it is "only " 26 cm deep.
would be interesting to know what an ARB or similar is deep ?

the other question is :
shall i cut in diagonal the corners ?
this will allow me to be more easy in parking and tight areas .
but the look won't be as original .
what shall I do ?


bye Renago
 
I would leave the bumper stock and unbolt those inner wings? between the bumper and body. FJ40, 55, etc. all use extended bumpers with a winch, it looks fine.
 

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