To snowflake or not to snowflake, that is the question. (1 Viewer)

[Yossarian]

I'm not intending this thread to be another which tire should I buy, but more about tire category or designation.

How to Confirm a Winter Performer

Last winter I installed Nitto Terra Grapplers on my 200, they have performed well overall, but just ok in the snow. I'm getting ready to install the TRD RW rims and this go around looking at tires with better winter performance, but still capable year round.

It does seem like the newer tires developed recently are employing technology like advanced tread compounds, 3D siping, ect. All of that would imply better winter performance, even without the snowflake symbol. I read another article recently that the Cooper AT/W tested so well that Cooper wants the three peak mountain/snowflake designation testing to be more stringent. The tire that the RMA uses as the standard is apparently very outdated, so surpassing it's performance in the snow and ice is not that difficult.

For those that live in snow country, in general is the three peak mountain/snowflake designation worth pursuing over other AT tires that do not have it?

 

[kbahus]

Really there are only a couple good do everything tires out there, the new K02 seems to be the tire to get and you get the winter rating. I have used/use Duratracs that are winter rated and they are good in winter conditions. I have tried the Cooper ST/Maxx as well and they are also a great tire but not winter rated, I never ran my set in the snow so I can't comment. If Cooper's claims are factual, then they screwed themselves by not getting the ST/Maxx winter rated if it is that "easy".

In my opinion, yes the snowflake symbol is important to me driving in winter conditions.

 

[Dazrin]

For those that live in snow country, in general is the three peak mountain/snowflake designation worth pursuing over other AT tires that do not have it?

The main reason that it is worth it for me is that non-snowflake tires are not considered "traction devices" which means I would have to chain up more often even if the tires I got would be adequate. If something did happen and I had cheated on the requirement I would be screwed for liability. If you need a mud terrain tire, you don't have many (any?) options for snowflakes and should consider a winter set of tires - in which case a dedicated snow tire would be best. If you are looking for ATs there are several good options for snowflake rated tires so you don't need to get a second set of tires - Goodyear Duratrac and BFG KO2 to start the list. You won't have as good of performance in the winter as with dedicated winter tires but it can be fairly good.

 

[Yossarian]

If Cooper's claims are factual, then they screwed themselves by not getting the ST/Maxx winter rated if it is that "easy".

That's a good point. Why do tire manufacturers choose, or choose not to pursue the three peak mountain/snowflake designation?

I found the test where the claims are made about the standards, Cooper Tire Discoverer AT/W Tire Review » AutoGuide.com News

Despite the observations made in the article, on another thread here on mud, a reference was made to yet another test and the KOs's outperformed the ATW's in the ice. New cooper atw vs bf Goodrich ko2 Refer to page two, towards the bottom is a table, the website is also in the thread for reference. The ATW was better overall just looking at the numbers, but why so poor on ice? Also, how did BFG get the KO2 to excel off-road and be durable on the rocks, yet have good (great?) winter performance?

Another tire on the market that is an AT and has the three peak mountain/snowflake designation is the Nitto EXO Grappler. Haven't seen much in the way of reviews on that one yet.

 

[Dazrin]

Despite the observations made in the article, on another thread here on mud, a reference was made to yet another test and the KOs's outperformed the ATW's in the ice. New cooper atw vs bf Goodrich ko2 Refer to page two, towards the bottom is a table, the website is also in the thread for reference. The ATW was better overall just looking at the numbers, but why so poor on ice? Also, how did BFG get the KO2 to excel off-road and be durable on the rocks, yet have good (great?) winter performance?

I forgot about that table. In looking back at it, I would take it with a grain of salt for the following reason: the graphics don't match up with the numbers they show for the A/TW. The graphs don't show the same percent of score as the numbers for the A/TW. Eyeballing it I would put the comfort and snow performance into the 80s instead of basically 100. I am not sure why they have the discrepancy in their numbers/graph. Most likely they just screwed up the graphs but it could also be that for some categories they were reported as "88/100" or something and the graphic is correct but only the last numbers were captured. This is certainly unlikely but ???

For comparison, and the reason I am questioning the data in the first place, the KO2 numbers and graphics match very closely. You would think that if they screwed up the graphs in one place they would do the same elsewhere. I would still like to see the raw test results for their tests.