Tie Rod/Drag link/ TRE upgrade (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Aug 12, 2012
Threads
16
Messages
237
Location
Kerrville, TX/Houston, TX
I need to do some TRE maintenance on Little Red, I put on a TPI lift a couple years ago and installed his drag link with TPI TRE's that fit just fine to my saginaw conversion. Ive got some death wobble going on now and am narrowing it down to the TRE's at this point. The end at the pitman are has stripped threads on it(think i was wrenching with too much beer) so I want to go ahead and change/upgrade.

Can I use 80 TRE's with these bud built rods?
FJ40 - BudBuilt - Tough Toyota Protection

Also, will the 80 TRE's fit the GM pitman arm or do I need to source a "special" one?

Pic from Round Up this year, and thanks.
Thanks
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Oh and I'm at work right now and won't be home for a couple of weeks, so Im trying to get everything ordered so I can work on it when I get home.
 
no one has done this????
 
80 ends and gm ends do not have the same taper. no one reslly has a bolt on set up that addresses all issues for all FJ40s. The best setup to dtart with is a 40 that has been converted to discs with the outer parts from a mini truck
or FJ60. The 60 arms are heavier with more meat around the tie rod area so they can run the larger 60/89 taper
on even be reamed to the gm 1 ton . You can't just bolt up the steering arms to a 40 knuckle however.
The 60 knuckle/arm used larger diameter studs with a wider spread for more strenhgth. The simplest
"super kit" would consist of a 60 knuckle set ( which would bolt to a 40 housing ) and custom length tie and relay rods
tapped for the 60/80 ends. The knuckles are already tapered for them so you might as well take advantage.
The tie rod would be a constant in the kit. The relay would be of differing lengths based on steering box choice.
For saginaw you would want all the joints except at the pitman to be stock 60 pieces. The 60 and 80 use the same
23mm tie rod thread and 21 mm relay rod thread diameter. This compares to the 40 series at 21mm and 17mm respectively.
the 60 and 80 rod ends also have a much larger diameter post and pinion.
My choice for the end at the pitman is the GM 1 ton high angle. It uses a 7/8" diameter thread so it pairs nicely with the 21 or 23mm threads of the Toyota parts. The big advantage is it's got nearly 45 degs of deflection, almost twice the toyota rod ends. The only position this is critical is at the pitman where it attaches top to bottom vs the other side of the relay rod which attaches front to back. The bottom joint never sees but a few degrees of
deflection throughout suspension travel while the end at the pitman sees the whole range.
attaches front to back . The Wagoneer pitman arm from the late 70's ~mid eighties will have plently of meat to accept the larger taper of the GM 1 ton end. It also has a mild drop and is a little longer than the typical CJ7
pitman that is used in most or al of the saginaw "kits". The drop is about an inch. This is nice with a lift but not so excessive to place odd loading on the steering box sector shaft
 
I had a BudBuilt tie rod that used the stock FJ40 tie rod ends. In 15 years of having the truck I never broke a tie rod end (though I did bend a number of stock Tie rods), but I upgraded to the 80 series stuff when I did my spring over as all the high steer arms that weren't 4x4 labs are setup for 80 series TRE's.

If you have the stock steering knuckles, you're likely running the small pattern kncukels and arms.
Those arms don't have enough 'meat' in them for you to ream them out to the 80 series Tie rod end size.
 
Cool, great thanks, I guess I will have to do some searching for some 60 arms. I have '81 40 disc break knuckles on there now. Thanks for the info.
 
Call Luke at 4x4 labs. I am going through the same project too, and my research pointed me to him. He has solution for everything.
 
I have the 4Plus Products tie rod and relay rod and they are very beefy. Maybe @lcwizard can elaborate on them as they are not listed on his website.
 
Cool, great thanks, I guess I will have to do some searching for some 60 arms. I have '81 40 disc break knuckles on there now. Thanks for the info.

81 disc brake knuckles will be wide pattern, and there is enough 'meat' in the arms to ream them out. However, those arms are valuable to someone with wide pattern knuckles and 40 TRE's.
 
I have the 4Plus Products tie rod and relay rod and they are very beefy. Maybe @lcwizard can elaborate on them as they are not listed on his website.

Yeah, the demand on these dropped off the map in 2008 along with so many other things. Retooling is too expensive for there to be multiple players in that market. A quality left hand 23mm spiral tap is about 250.00 or more. It might cut 30 rods or if something sticks just two. Right hands are bit cheaper. Same goes for the 21mm lefty. You'd want to have two each on hand in the event one breaks in the middle of a job so you're investing
1000.00 in taps and 400.00~ 500.00 ea. in 1 1/4DOM and 1 3/8" DOM tube .DOM tubing is most affordable in 100' or more quantities and 100' builds 20~30 tie rods. Add to the fact that labor wise they are only reasonable running 5~10 at a time of each and you'd have a chunk of cash tied in a sporatic product that you hope sold in pairs ( relay and tie rod ), which never seemed to be the case. You'd build ten 80 tie rods and five 60's and there'd be a rash of orders for the 60 and the 80's would be dead. . To set up and do a single from scratch would eat up an hour and a half of shop time but doing ten would cut the times in half. Like I've always said, any decent fabricator can build a 5000.00 bumper. the trick is building a 5000.00 bumper for 2000.00.
Man-a-fre found a shop in California that was already tooled with those taps for an unrelated project and were willing to do small runs. I'm working on an unconventional approach to the problem of building these without having 2000.00 laying around in inventory. It may come to fruition soon as
things may be changing very soon as far as what's currently available in that HD rod market
 
Ok, great! So it looks like a I may have some more options since I have the newer knuckles installed.

What about just going to a high steer kit, I am still spring under so its not necessary, It just seems a bit easier to be able to get everything in one stop? Also, if I went to high steer or stayed with what I have what are the advantages and disadvantages of using heims? I am by no means at a crazy hardcore level with my rig yet, but if thats one thing less to upgrade in the process of the build than I might want to go down that road. Thanks again for the help.
 
Ok, great! So it looks like a I may have some more options since I have the newer knuckles installed.

What about just going to a high steer kit, I am still spring under so its not necessary, It just seems a bit easier to be able to get everything in one stop? Also, if I went to high steer or stayed with what I have what are the advantages and disadvantages of using heims? I am by no means at a crazy hardcore level with my rig yet, but if thats one thing less to upgrade in the process of the build than I might want to go down that road. Thanks again for the help.

Since your SUA still, the high steer kit likely won't be useful and/or your steering rods will be hitting the frame or other things. Also the high steer arms change the length of Tie rod necessary. you might order a high steer kit and leave the high steer arms on the shelf, then ream out some FJ60 arms to the 80 series tie rod end size/taper.

IIRC heims aren't street legal if your truck has to pass safety inspection.
 

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