Thoughts on raising TLCA dues??? (1 Viewer)
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No problem whatsoever with a dues raise . My question is this :
If I already have a couple years left on my membership pre-pay , can I upgrade and pay the difference to help by going to 1st class Postage rate ?
Sarge
If I already have a couple years left on my membership pre-pay , can I upgrade and pay the difference to help by going to 1st class Postage rate ?
Sarge
Got it , thanks ....
Pass the word folks , this subject is important .
Sarge
Pass the word folks , this subject is important .
Sarge
I was very surprised when I got my e mail today, stating that the dues were going to INCREASE!?
Bad move, IMO if you're looking to BOOST membership, when It's already hard to justify the membership, as is, to someone new to cruisers.
I don't get it.
K
Bad move, IMO if you're looking to BOOST membership, when It's already hard to justify the membership, as is, to someone new to cruisers.
I don't get it.
K
woooody
el Jefe
Hi Keith
I know there were year's and year's worth of posts in this thread, but let me summarize some background on this:
#1 - Cost have gone up, like it or not, over the last 7 years. We need to adjust accordingly. And it's not a simple 5 or 10% increase.
#2 - Our budgets have been established in the past with optimistic membership numbers which causes us to be in the red every year.
#3 - Our existing members have been receptive to an increase. I feel it's as important to keep the ones we have now as it is to attract new ones.
#4 - Very few people have said that a $5 increase (1 1/2 gals of gas) will prevent them from renewing.
Now, based on the above, my feeling is that if we establish reasonable membership numbers we need to increase the dues. Doing so should free up the Board and the delegates to work on positive things for our members. A common complaint from last year's delegates was that it seemed like all we did was talk about the budget, cutting costs and scraping for more revenue.
One item that was not included in the email, but that will be announced later is the creation of an "event" membership fr $25 that would allow people to maintain their membership but switch to a "pdf" only version of the magazine.
So right now, there is an incentive for people to renew before the increase as well as renew for multiple years at the current rate.
Did you talk to your club delegate to see what he had to say about the dues discussions? We've been talking about it for several months and we had very few negative comments.
I understand your frustration, and I hope that you choose to stay a member.
Thanks
Interesting take on that Chicago.
When I was on the voting board as Mountain/Central Rep, the last time we (TLCA) increased dues, I was one of two people who opposed the increase. My economic philosophy is to help TLCA's bottom line we need to increase membership. I practiced what I preached by making hundreds of phone calls per year to reach out to expired members and ask them to please renew. That was incredibly successful, but was also a huge time sink for me and others who also helped in that effort, such as Ige (nuclearlemon).
When I was TLCA President, I again saw the "what-ifs" in the budget spreadsheet, and once again, the magic bullet is membership numbers. I also faced the reality that in a mostly-volunteer organization, with a couple of contractors who are practically volunteers for what they get paid, we need more people to do the work of promoting TLCA effectively than we have. We cut costs to the bone and have remained solvent, but what we really need is about a thousand more members.
I see in your sig line that you are enthusiastic about the land use. That's good.
I bet you didn't know that Cruise Moab, a TLCA sanctioned event, donates 100% of our proceeds to land use organizations? The amount this year, from Cruise Moab 2013 was $9,000. I bet you didn't know that Cruise Moab could not be held without the affordable liability insurance that we can get through TLCA. So ultimately, those donations we've made over the years (over $100,000) to land use, could not have happened without TLCA.
Even though TLCA does not directly donate to keep trails open, and reopen trails that have been closed, indirectly TLCA helps facilitate that through sanctioned events like Cruise Moab. So when you are thinking about whether to send your $35 to BRC versus renewing your TLCA membership, remember that your TLCA dues are leveraged far more than you may have been aware of.
I'm glad to hear that TLCA is active in helping the fight against closures, and no, I was unaware of those details.
I had let my membership lapse a couple years ago and, I re joined last year to do rubithon.
Ill be curious to see how this all works out.
Keith
I had let my membership lapse a couple years ago and, I re joined last year to do rubithon.
Ill be curious to see how this all works out.
Keith
Hi, Regrettably I don't have time to read the 14 pages of posts on this thread, but I read the important notes about why the increase of membership.
First off, I'm up in Canada (Vancouver area) and have never had the pleasure of going to a single TLCA event, one year I hope to. As a Canadian (and there are many of us) other than the magazine I have not seen any other benefit of joining the TLCA. At least in the past we used to get cool dash plaques (have a nice collection) but lately that hasn't been happening and the last time I tried to order some it was ignored (no money was ever collected and nothing was shipped). The magazine is nice and I know exactly how much work goes into each issue, believe me, I know because I do the same for the Four Wheel Drive Association of BC. So I respect everyone that works so hard on it. With that said though, I do have some personal opinions (and they are just that so don't take it to heart), the magazine is very nice, but I have never seen much point in using perfectly good (and expensive) page space to print up vehicle tech question/answers for stuff that gets covered quicker, easier, faster and with photos online. No offense to everyone who is working on this and is really doing a great job, but the 6 pages dedicated to this would be (again in my opinion) better spent on a trail story or two. If I ever need to do any work on my truck I come here and get to obtain the wisdom and experience of not only professionals but also cruiser heads with lots of years of experience.
I do realize that content is hard to get, trust me on this, I struggle myself every issue.
Now the reason I mention this is not as criticism for the magazine, but instead to show the reasoning behind my actions. I have been a member for around 6 or 7 (or more) years and in reality have never "used" any of the perks (other than the magazine) that the TLCA has to offer. And I supported it all this time because I believed it was the right thing to do ...and they had cool dash plaques. Well it has come time for me to renew and I really am no longer in the mood to. It's not a lot of money, but what do I get out of it?
I get a very nice magazine that has a couple (usually 2-3) of trail stories ....and that's it. I pay my yearly $20 to IH8MUD to support this site and I get my money's worth any time I ask for advice, but sadly I don't see the investment value in the TLCA. Then I have my local club dues (Coastal Cruisers), which is well worth it, and then the dues for the Four Wheel Drive Association of BC (which is well worth it and I am the editor of their magazine too), so it all adds up. Now I have been thinking about this for the past couple of years but I bought a membership for 3 years so I was already commited. Now that it is expiring, I seriously don't see a point to renewing. I would like to support an organization that keeps this legend alive but I have other things I can devote money to that I get more use out of.
Having said that, for anyone of you that have ever been to a TLCA event, or will be any time soon, I highly do recommend to support them, because you are taking advange of everything they offer.
I'm sorry, I (at this time) will not be renewing. I hope you manage to increase the membership numbers and you continue to keep this great legacy alive. Maybe next year I will change my mind. Thank you all for all the amazing and great work you all do.
First off, I'm up in Canada (Vancouver area) and have never had the pleasure of going to a single TLCA event, one year I hope to. As a Canadian (and there are many of us) other than the magazine I have not seen any other benefit of joining the TLCA. At least in the past we used to get cool dash plaques (have a nice collection) but lately that hasn't been happening and the last time I tried to order some it was ignored (no money was ever collected and nothing was shipped). The magazine is nice and I know exactly how much work goes into each issue, believe me, I know because I do the same for the Four Wheel Drive Association of BC. So I respect everyone that works so hard on it. With that said though, I do have some personal opinions (and they are just that so don't take it to heart), the magazine is very nice, but I have never seen much point in using perfectly good (and expensive) page space to print up vehicle tech question/answers for stuff that gets covered quicker, easier, faster and with photos online. No offense to everyone who is working on this and is really doing a great job, but the 6 pages dedicated to this would be (again in my opinion) better spent on a trail story or two. If I ever need to do any work on my truck I come here and get to obtain the wisdom and experience of not only professionals but also cruiser heads with lots of years of experience.
I do realize that content is hard to get, trust me on this, I struggle myself every issue.
Now the reason I mention this is not as criticism for the magazine, but instead to show the reasoning behind my actions. I have been a member for around 6 or 7 (or more) years and in reality have never "used" any of the perks (other than the magazine) that the TLCA has to offer. And I supported it all this time because I believed it was the right thing to do ...and they had cool dash plaques. Well it has come time for me to renew and I really am no longer in the mood to. It's not a lot of money, but what do I get out of it?
I get a very nice magazine that has a couple (usually 2-3) of trail stories ....and that's it. I pay my yearly $20 to IH8MUD to support this site and I get my money's worth any time I ask for advice, but sadly I don't see the investment value in the TLCA. Then I have my local club dues (Coastal Cruisers), which is well worth it, and then the dues for the Four Wheel Drive Association of BC (which is well worth it and I am the editor of their magazine too), so it all adds up. Now I have been thinking about this for the past couple of years but I bought a membership for 3 years so I was already commited. Now that it is expiring, I seriously don't see a point to renewing. I would like to support an organization that keeps this legend alive but I have other things I can devote money to that I get more use out of.
Having said that, for anyone of you that have ever been to a TLCA event, or will be any time soon, I highly do recommend to support them, because you are taking advange of everything they offer.
I'm sorry, I (at this time) will not be renewing. I hope you manage to increase the membership numbers and you continue to keep this great legacy alive. Maybe next year I will change my mind. Thank you all for all the amazing and great work you all do.
Fantom,
I see your point, to an extent, but I feel you are missing some crucial points. Though it may seem to the casual observer that all TLCA does is put on Rubithon and publish a magazine, the TLCA does a lot more in support of its membership. Namely, it provides a collective voice for a subset of 4x4 owners within the 4x4 community and, more importantly, for the constant battle to maintain land access for our chosen activity.
You say you have yet to attend a TLCA event and see these events that as a benefit to TLCA membership, which I agree it is. However, to my knowledge, there is/was only one TLCA event hosted by a Canadian club in recent history. That was RMLCA's River Shiver, which I am not sure if that will happen again. My point is that there are several Canadian clubs, yet no effort, that I've observed, for any of those clubs to hold a TLCA sponsored event.
So, I ask you the pointed question: What have you done in support of TLCA, aside from sending in your dues?
I have wheeled in western Canada (lived in Victoria for 4 years) and Alberta (River Shiver 07, one of the best events ever IMHO), so I know how amazing the terrain and scenery are. I am fairly certain that if Coastal Cruisers were to host a TLCA sponsored event, it would be WELL attended by Canadain TLCA members and those of us south of the border.
So while your decision to drop your TLCA mebership is a personal one and I have no illusions that my response will change your mind, I urge you to look at your association with TLCA from an other perspective. If you want more from your TLCA membership, put more into TLCA and see what they can offer in return. The answer may be "not much", or it may be something that changes your mind and benefits your club, the land access fight in Canada and you personally. For instance, TLCA supports the Blue Ribbon Coalition and Tread Lightly, perhaps you could be the one who extends that support to BC4WDA. You never know...until you make the effort.
Cheers,
Stump
I see your point, to an extent, but I feel you are missing some crucial points. Though it may seem to the casual observer that all TLCA does is put on Rubithon and publish a magazine, the TLCA does a lot more in support of its membership. Namely, it provides a collective voice for a subset of 4x4 owners within the 4x4 community and, more importantly, for the constant battle to maintain land access for our chosen activity.
You say you have yet to attend a TLCA event and see these events that as a benefit to TLCA membership, which I agree it is. However, to my knowledge, there is/was only one TLCA event hosted by a Canadian club in recent history. That was RMLCA's River Shiver, which I am not sure if that will happen again. My point is that there are several Canadian clubs, yet no effort, that I've observed, for any of those clubs to hold a TLCA sponsored event.
So, I ask you the pointed question: What have you done in support of TLCA, aside from sending in your dues?
I have wheeled in western Canada (lived in Victoria for 4 years) and Alberta (River Shiver 07, one of the best events ever IMHO), so I know how amazing the terrain and scenery are. I am fairly certain that if Coastal Cruisers were to host a TLCA sponsored event, it would be WELL attended by Canadain TLCA members and those of us south of the border.
So while your decision to drop your TLCA mebership is a personal one and I have no illusions that my response will change your mind, I urge you to look at your association with TLCA from an other perspective. If you want more from your TLCA membership, put more into TLCA and see what they can offer in return. The answer may be "not much", or it may be something that changes your mind and benefits your club, the land access fight in Canada and you personally. For instance, TLCA supports the Blue Ribbon Coalition and Tread Lightly, perhaps you could be the one who extends that support to BC4WDA. You never know...until you make the effort.
Cheers,
Stump
I may have missed the land use thing somewhere. Other than Rising Sun donating all of their proceeds from CM to BRC what does TLCA do for the land use fight? I know individual members have been working hard towards that end, But are they doing it directly for TLCA?
BTW, as far as landuse goes. I was having a discussion with a friend the other day. BRC and Tread lighty among other organizations are there for landuse specifically. TLCA is not. I do not begrudge the TLCA for not taking a more active role in the fight. There are other organizations that are much more involved and better suited for that.
One of the main reasons TLCA does not have a great retention rate is because people do not understand why it's worth while. Turning the questions around seems (to me at least) to pretty much answers that. It comes off as an excuse.
Member: "What does TLCA do for the money I send them??"
TLCA: "What do you do for TLCA??"
Member: "Huh.. apparently nothing, guess I get another case of beer for the weekend instead..
"People pay TLCA for a perceived service to them. If you cannot define a solid service, and argue that the paying members are not doing enough FOR TLCA, then you are at a big loss.
You have to have something to sell before people will pay you. And continue to pay you..
woooody
el Jefe
Mace
TLCA had Gregg Mumm in the BRC Board, and he became their President. Besides providing advertising to BRC, as well as a Monthly column from Gregg for BRC items, there are other events that donate to Land Use. Rubithon donates to Rubicon Trail Foundation, and held a Wine Tasting fundraiser for them last year, and will do so this year as well. Additionally, 50% of the proceeds from the Marauder bar were donated to RTF.
Local clubs that put on events have done their share to support local land use groups with proceeds from their sanctioned events. PMC donated $500 last year from proceeds from the Swap Meet.
I think the TLCA can be the communication of Land Use awareness to our members via Toyota Trails. Obviously, it's not immediate like a web forum, but we still reach an audience that may not see it via other methods.
From my perspective, we have danced around the "what have you done for me" for a long time. Like any other group, it is the active and vocal members that drive the direction of the group. I realize that not everyone agrees with that direction, or the decisions of the Board. All that I can say is that I make my decisions reflecting on our past history as well as current information and feedback. It's not always popular, and it's not always right. While we can try to reach consensus, at some point the people in power need to make a decision and move forward.
I think if cost is an issue, the $25 "pdf only" membership should keep members around that feel $35 is too much. But for those that aren't US members, their is no increase in their dues.
While TLCA is not a business run by a corporation, we do have a responsibility to all of our members to make sure they feel they are getting something for their financial contribution. This club has evolved over the past 37 years, and if we are to survive, we will need to continue changing with the times AND be true to our heritage. I agree with you that people leave because they don't feel there is a value for their dues. I want to work on providing that value, and getting our Board to find new ways to provide a benefit to our membership so that people want to stay.
Thanks again for your support through the years. I mean it!
TLCA had Gregg Mumm in the BRC Board, and he became their President. Besides providing advertising to BRC, as well as a Monthly column from Gregg for BRC items, there are other events that donate to Land Use. Rubithon donates to Rubicon Trail Foundation, and held a Wine Tasting fundraiser for them last year, and will do so this year as well. Additionally, 50% of the proceeds from the Marauder bar were donated to RTF.
Local clubs that put on events have done their share to support local land use groups with proceeds from their sanctioned events. PMC donated $500 last year from proceeds from the Swap Meet.
I think the TLCA can be the communication of Land Use awareness to our members via Toyota Trails. Obviously, it's not immediate like a web forum, but we still reach an audience that may not see it via other methods.
From my perspective, we have danced around the "what have you done for me" for a long time. Like any other group, it is the active and vocal members that drive the direction of the group. I realize that not everyone agrees with that direction, or the decisions of the Board. All that I can say is that I make my decisions reflecting on our past history as well as current information and feedback. It's not always popular, and it's not always right. While we can try to reach consensus, at some point the people in power need to make a decision and move forward.
I think if cost is an issue, the $25 "pdf only" membership should keep members around that feel $35 is too much. But for those that aren't US members, their is no increase in their dues.
While TLCA is not a business run by a corporation, we do have a responsibility to all of our members to make sure they feel they are getting something for their financial contribution. This club has evolved over the past 37 years, and if we are to survive, we will need to continue changing with the times AND be true to our heritage. I agree with you that people leave because they don't feel there is a value for their dues. I want to work on providing that value, and getting our Board to find new ways to provide a benefit to our membership so that people want to stay.
Thanks again for your support through the years. I mean it!
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Not entirely true. TLCA has delegates to BRC, UFWD and Treadlightly, (or at least it is written as such in the TLCA SOP). There is also a provision to propose a cash grant to "support the sport of four wheeling, keeping open public lands, trail improvements and the history and preservation of the Land Cruiser".
Now to make these things happen, members need to take an active roll.
So, the mechanisms are there and TLCA does foster awareness through the open gate articles in TT and it has also recently become a topic of discussion during the BOD telecons. I would hope that TLCA invites BRC and other land use entities to participate in Rubithon, though again I can put that back onto the membership to reach out to these organizations at a local level and see what they can do as a TLCA CHAPTER CLUB to support them.
One of the main reasons TLCA does not have a great retention rate is because people do not understand why it's worth while. Turning the questions around seems (to me at least) to pretty much answers that. It comes off as an excuse.
Member: "What does TLCA do for the money I send them??"
TLCA: "What do you do for TLCA??"
Member: "Huh.. apparently nothing, guess I get another case of beer for the weekend instead..
I don't agree. An association like TLCA relies on the actions of it's membership, both club and individual to actively support it if it is to continue to exist. This is most evident in the contributions to TT. If no members contribute, there is no magazine.
For those that are members of TLCA chapter clubs, how many can recall a discussion that involved TLCA? When was the last time their BOD rep gave a report from that month's telecon? I can answer that; less than a handful of chapters may have gotten an update from their BOD rep. Why? Because that is how many call in every month.
I have been a club BOD rep for about 8 months and missed one call. I was shocked at the lack of participation by chapter clubs on these telecons. Of the 60+ member clubs, it probably averages about 7-8 club reps on any individual call and they tend to be the same group of people who take the time (1hr a month) to do their job.
I hear a lot of bitching about what does TLCA do for me, but I don't see people stepping up to take an active roll or taking the opportunity to step in and have their voice heard by the BOD as a member of the BOD. BTW... the secretary position is open, yet I don't see anyone jumping up to fill it.
It's an example of the classic 20-80... 20% of the people do 80% of the work.
So, you view TLCA as a business, as in a for profit entity? If that were the case, then I would agree with you. However, TLCA is by definition an association of Toyota 4x4 enthusiasts and my response to this is IBID.
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Just another thought on raising awareness and possible increase in sales/membership -
How about some not only better/more swag and advert products , but pictures would really help on shirts, ect for sale on the web .
I still stand in support of the increase , too many voices lost in the land issues area and every option must be kept to keep public lands open . Even though my location and situation here may never allow me to participate directly in events it's nice to know they are there and love to read about TLCA happenings .
I feel , in a way - being a TLCA member is a real privilege that shouldn't be wasted or diminished .
Understand folks' concerns about increasing costs but in reality we need to understand the value of what we have as a collective group - this part is the most important .
Sarge
How about some not only better/more swag and advert products , but pictures would really help on shirts, ect for sale on the web .
I still stand in support of the increase , too many voices lost in the land issues area and every option must be kept to keep public lands open . Even though my location and situation here may never allow me to participate directly in events it's nice to know they are there and love to read about TLCA happenings .
I feel , in a way - being a TLCA member is a real privilege that shouldn't be wasted or diminished .
Understand folks' concerns about increasing costs but in reality we need to understand the value of what we have as a collective group - this part is the most important .
Sarge
Yes, those are all, very good points ...in the US, not in Canada. Here we have the Four Wheel Drive Association of BC constantly working with organizations, government and other authorities to achieve that. As far as I know the TLCA has no activity in that field in Canada. Having said that, whatever you accomplish over there we may be able to use as a template up here when dealing with governement but often times the rules and regulation are very different.
There was that event which was held every 2 years for a while and I didn't have a chance to attend it either. As for your question ...I am alredy a very active member in the 4WDABC, and until recently have been also very active in the Coastal Cruisers in many aspects, so I'm not about to take on another project. Now there are members out there that could but you know as well as I how easy it is to get members active in something. So I think that from my personal stand point, sending in the cash is all I would be able to offer. Some people can only afford to that.
I can't speak for the club, I know it has been thought about in the past but as with everything else, it needs people to organize it.
I understand that aspect, and honestly if you knew me, I highly doubt you would say that to me, because of how already active I am in many other fields. But in many cases that is how it works.
That aside, membership retention and gaining new members in Canada is a tough sell for you guys because of lack of member involvement. Hope it picks up and if I end up having some free time I will see about being more active in it.
Good luck and thank you.
ah yes, the everlasting question about TLCA... what have you done for me lately.
The challenge is to be everything for everyone. Problem is, not only are we each uniquely different, but we also change over time. For instance, when I bought my 1st land cruiser, I needed knowledge. TLCA provided the avenue and the value was priceless.
When our club publicized our swap meet and the new McGrew Trail ride, Trails was priceless.
As I became a TLCA delegate and started wheeling at events around the country, Trails and TLCA members were priceless.
Today I spend my time working my butt off and looking towards retirement... my TLCA friends are priceless.
Am I as active as I was? No, but times have changed and so have I. But TLCA remains stable and there will become a time when TLCA is priceless to me again.
The challenge is to be everything for everyone. Problem is, not only are we each uniquely different, but we also change over time. For instance, when I bought my 1st land cruiser, I needed knowledge. TLCA provided the avenue and the value was priceless.
When our club publicized our swap meet and the new McGrew Trail ride, Trails was priceless.
As I became a TLCA delegate and started wheeling at events around the country, Trails and TLCA members were priceless.
Today I spend my time working my butt off and looking towards retirement... my TLCA friends are priceless.
Am I as active as I was? No, but times have changed and so have I. But TLCA remains stable and there will become a time when TLCA is priceless to me again.
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