Theorycraft - V8 swap on an EXTREME Budget (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter gregnash
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From Advance Adapters an NV4500 to Toyota transfer is $675. Double that for a Gen III or IV motor to a H42F or H55. Then the Mark's adapter is another grand on top of that.
And then there's the unknown factor...
Whose to say that the H55F will still be available in a few years, or next year, or for that matter... tomorrow?
I certainly wouldn't count on it.
And if I had $2300 lying around I would order a spare one today for backup when my 25yr old one kicks the bucket. That's how paranoid I am of Toyota discontinuing parts.
Whose to say that the H55F will still be available in a few years, or next year, or for that matter... tomorrow?
I certainly wouldn't count on it.
And if I had $2300 lying around I would order a spare one today for backup when my 25yr old one kicks the bucket. That's how paranoid I am of Toyota discontinuing parts.
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
- Thread starter
- #84
LOL... little far away for me....
Yeah I know. Always the uncertainty of what is going to happen to parts from Mr. T..... I am still adding things up as that was a quick estimation. But definitely something that is in the back of my mind. I need to check the salvage yard websites to see what they charge but sucky thing is they don't do an "interchange" list (e.g. NV4500 comes in multiple year chevy/dodge so I have to look at each year/model make up to get pricing/availability).
Ouch!.....[emoji51]
how do you plan to mate your toyota 4 speed manual transmission to your GM V8 engine....not engough gears and no OD. your options are Marks bellhousing adapter or the so called ranger torque splitter and I think AA also makes their own bellhousing adapter (or they use to). These are the only options that come to mind.
the marks' will allow the use of the stock trans mount...your radiator fan will end up very close to the radiator but a GM clutch fan and fan clutch are usable depending on options. I'm told the ranger allows a similar configuration. Unknown what the AA house brand bellhousing adapter does.
In my mind / opinion bellhousing adapters are to be avoided unless no other choice. I have a mark's and would not go that route again.
the best type of adapter to run if needed is one between the transmission and the transfer case....its a given teh best choice would be no adapter at all, but that would require some other mods and more $$.
the marks' will allow the use of the stock trans mount...your radiator fan will end up very close to the radiator but a GM clutch fan and fan clutch are usable depending on options. I'm told the ranger allows a similar configuration. Unknown what the AA house brand bellhousing adapter does.
In my mind / opinion bellhousing adapters are to be avoided unless no other choice. I have a mark's and would not go that route again.
the best type of adapter to run if needed is one between the transmission and the transfer case....its a given teh best choice would be no adapter at all, but that would require some other mods and more $$.
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
- Thread starter
- #88
@dbleon LOL.. yeah unfortunately that is not going to happen anytime soon. This is more of an information gathering thread than anything...
On another note, I talked with two companies today that provide turnkey engines with modified harnesses and ecm. Cost for 5.3L ranges in the $2500 range and only one company provides a 4.8L at $1750. Both are well known companies in the swap arena and near me, so bonus on that..
Talking with the guy the only provides the 5.3L and up, his reasoning is that the salvage yards are charging close to the same amount for the 4.8 as the 5.3. On his customer end he has more people looking for the 5.3 or 6.0 than anything than the 4.8 so he is not stocking them anymore. Further chatting with him he knows of the LC swaps well and said that when it comes down to longevity it really does benefit to spend the money up front and go with a 4L60 since they are such good engines. He had a customer that was in the same boat as me and he was able to convince him to go with an auto. The guy has apparently never looked back. But he completely understands my wants/needs. He has offered that he is working on some higher mileage engines that are still good that he could offer me at a lower price. The other company offers the 4.8L with somewhere between 50k and 100k on them regularly (all equally at the $1750).
So that begs the question, in the arena of mileage vs. hp/tq is the lower mileage 4.8L a better bet than the 5.3L? With something as simple as an intake for the 4.8, how much can the power be bumped up?
On another note, I talked with two companies today that provide turnkey engines with modified harnesses and ecm. Cost for 5.3L ranges in the $2500 range and only one company provides a 4.8L at $1750. Both are well known companies in the swap arena and near me, so bonus on that..
Talking with the guy the only provides the 5.3L and up, his reasoning is that the salvage yards are charging close to the same amount for the 4.8 as the 5.3. On his customer end he has more people looking for the 5.3 or 6.0 than anything than the 4.8 so he is not stocking them anymore. Further chatting with him he knows of the LC swaps well and said that when it comes down to longevity it really does benefit to spend the money up front and go with a 4L60 since they are such good engines. He had a customer that was in the same boat as me and he was able to convince him to go with an auto. The guy has apparently never looked back. But he completely understands my wants/needs. He has offered that he is working on some higher mileage engines that are still good that he could offer me at a lower price. The other company offers the 4.8L with somewhere between 50k and 100k on them regularly (all equally at the $1750).
So that begs the question, in the arena of mileage vs. hp/tq is the lower mileage 4.8L a better bet than the 5.3L? With something as simple as an intake for the 4.8, how much can the power be bumped up?
are you watching / reading any of the V8 swap or build threads...
Guy here....says he may sell off his 4l60 trans with adapter for split case.... FJ60+62+(Z)80+ v8
Guy here....says he may sell off his 4l60 trans with adapter for split case.... FJ60+62+(Z)80+ v8
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
- Thread starter
- #90
updated some of the initial posts with more information as I am still gathering things.
What I am currently looking at... 4.8L or 5.3L as this will be a 70/30 or 60/40 daily driver with mild offroad and little to no towing. But really that all depends on if I purchase from someone like BD Turnkey or Pacific Fabrications (both fairly local).
If I decide to go for a salvage yard pull then really depends on the money I have available. At that point it will be either a 5.3L or 6.0L as both are pretty comparable in price. I did go to two of my local yards (Pick N Pull and Pic N Save) and while they had TBI engines all over the place they has been scavenged like no tomorrow. I think I found ONE engine that was close to complete.. Other thing, there was 1, yes ONE, manual transmission truck (an older Dodge) there.
Looks like the NV4500 is going to be a bit difficult to find locally, might actually have to take a trip to get one and then I really need to look at the Chevy vs. Dodge. Need some more information on this as it seems that while they are somewhat interchangeable they are not completely (requiring some adapting) and it depends on the year that the tranny is coming out of as well... Some of the salvage sites ask for which version you are looking for, 4x2 vs. 4x4, and the older versions seem to be classified as w/ or w/o integral bellhousing. This is the one confusing piece to me as I have not found any information on this yet (though I haven't really had time to look very hard).
What I am currently looking at... 4.8L or 5.3L as this will be a 70/30 or 60/40 daily driver with mild offroad and little to no towing. But really that all depends on if I purchase from someone like BD Turnkey or Pacific Fabrications (both fairly local).
If I decide to go for a salvage yard pull then really depends on the money I have available. At that point it will be either a 5.3L or 6.0L as both are pretty comparable in price. I did go to two of my local yards (Pick N Pull and Pic N Save) and while they had TBI engines all over the place they has been scavenged like no tomorrow. I think I found ONE engine that was close to complete.. Other thing, there was 1, yes ONE, manual transmission truck (an older Dodge) there.
Looks like the NV4500 is going to be a bit difficult to find locally, might actually have to take a trip to get one and then I really need to look at the Chevy vs. Dodge. Need some more information on this as it seems that while they are somewhat interchangeable they are not completely (requiring some adapting) and it depends on the year that the tranny is coming out of as well... Some of the salvage sites ask for which version you are looking for, 4x2 vs. 4x4, and the older versions seem to be classified as w/ or w/o integral bellhousing. This is the one confusing piece to me as I have not found any information on this yet (though I haven't really had time to look very hard).
If you going to go Salvage.. I still say find a running donor. It's the little things that will hang you up, and drive the cost of the swap much higher than anticipated..... The more you mimic the stock configuration the less issues you will have once that key is turned on for the first time.....
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gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
- Thread starter
- #92
Definitely MaNu (@MANUCHAO)..... If at all possible I will pull everything possible including the fuse box from the donor vehicle. If I look at one that is already pulled then I will probably go to the added cost of getting a Howell or Painless adapter so that everything is there and ready for pretty much plug n play.
Some of the things that I am starting to find out are things like, Oh yeah you get the whole engine... minus the starter or AC unit or alternator or..... So reading between the lines and not assuming anything is key. The thought of paying someone for an engine that has already been run, tested, etc. (aka BD Turnkey or Pacific Fab) is very enticing as this would cut a lot out of the downtime for the schedule however it adds at least $1k to the price of the engine, e.g. average price for a 4.8L salvage pull with low mileage (less than 125k) is around $700-$1000 where as going through Pacific Fab it is $1750 for that same engine with 50k-100k.
So if I pay say, $1700 for the salvage yard 6.0L without the wiring harness I am then looking to add another $600-$1000 average from Painless/Howell/Pacific Fab so while you may be getting the engine at a cheaper price, if it doesn't come with the harness you may be paying the same cost.
Some of the things that I am starting to find out are things like, Oh yeah you get the whole engine... minus the starter or AC unit or alternator or..... So reading between the lines and not assuming anything is key. The thought of paying someone for an engine that has already been run, tested, etc. (aka BD Turnkey or Pacific Fab) is very enticing as this would cut a lot out of the downtime for the schedule however it adds at least $1k to the price of the engine, e.g. average price for a 4.8L salvage pull with low mileage (less than 125k) is around $700-$1000 where as going through Pacific Fab it is $1750 for that same engine with 50k-100k.
So if I pay say, $1700 for the salvage yard 6.0L without the wiring harness I am then looking to add another $600-$1000 average from Painless/Howell/Pacific Fab so while you may be getting the engine at a cheaper price, if it doesn't come with the harness you may be paying the same cost.
92 Chevy K 1500 ex cab 4x4 w/NV4500 5 spd
1993 Chevy 2500 trade for for dana 60s
They are out there....
1993 Chevy 2500 trade for for dana 60s
They are out there....
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
- Thread starter
- #95
@woytovich Do you REALIZE how hard those are to find! I have found 2.... TWO within 200 miles of me for sale and they are asking at least $6k for the trucks... I have yet to find a wrecked but running truck near me with a stick... They apparently just are not that common anymore which is something that I just don't get?! There is such great feeling in being able to shift between gears, the pressing in of the clutch... *sigh* I may end up having to go auto in the long run once I can get around to actually doing this. At this point I am just keeping my eye out for what seems like a good NV4500 that is at least a 2002 for less than a grand.
Buy a running truck Buy a running truck. Buy a running truck... with an NV4500 in it.!!!!!!
As I and many other already said, a complete donor is the best way to go. Take what you need, sell the hulk to pick a part, part it yourself and sell the scrap.
You will come out ahead with a good donor. Way too many parts you can use, measurements you can take and ideas to use.
5 Hours ain't so bad... make an overnight camping trip out of it! 
I wasn't looking at location for those that I found... just trying to show that they are out there...
I use Auto Tempest / Search Tempest do do wide area CL searches...
I wasn't looking at location for those that I found... just trying to show that they are out there...
I use Auto Tempest / Search Tempest do do wide area CL searches...
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
- Thread starter
- #100
LOL @woytovich aint that the truth... If I was going to do that though I would find an old K5 Blazer or something like that and go from there.
I have been using SearchTempest and I find things randomly on there, like the NV4500 in Modesto, Ca (where I grew up) that they guy "just want it out of my garage" and is asking $1000. No information other than it came off a running chevy but who knows how long it has been sitting in his garage and what condition its in.
At some point, at least for me, this will become an exercise in futility with regards to searching for a manual tranny truck. However, getting the ENTIRE vehicle is not going to happen. Ran that past the "boss" last night and thankfully she is honest and said that was not gonna happen because 1) we don't have the space and 2) "we aren't going to turn this into a 'cars on blocks' scenario in front of the house like the neighbors" (then she made some snide comment about me only mowing the lawn every other week and my "foreclosure sheik" look).
I have been using SearchTempest and I find things randomly on there, like the NV4500 in Modesto, Ca (where I grew up) that they guy "just want it out of my garage" and is asking $1000. No information other than it came off a running chevy but who knows how long it has been sitting in his garage and what condition its in.
At some point, at least for me, this will become an exercise in futility with regards to searching for a manual tranny truck. However, getting the ENTIRE vehicle is not going to happen. Ran that past the "boss" last night and thankfully she is honest and said that was not gonna happen because 1) we don't have the space and 2) "we aren't going to turn this into a 'cars on blocks' scenario in front of the house like the neighbors" (then she made some snide comment about me only mowing the lawn every other week and my "foreclosure sheik" look).
