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Theft Deterrent System Problems

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by Desertmaster, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    To All,

    Hope you all had a great day.....

    This morning I started my truck to get it warmed up before I head to work, I had it locked from the night before, so I proceeded to unlock it and get it started.

    When I came back to enter the truck I found out that the truck had locked itself, or the Theft deterrent system had locked the truck and I had no other means to enter the truck while it is running (idle), luckily I had the driver side window down as I would normally do during the summer times, so I reached to key and turned off the ignition and pulled the key from the ignition.


    Still the theft deterrent system did not unlock the truck, so I presses the first button on my fob key, and all it happened was the truck unlocked then locked again within a fraction of a second, so again I tried and the same happened again.

    I reached in to ignition and stuck the key in, then started the truck again then turned it off and the same happened again, ( no go) still locked all this happening while I am reaching in through the window, could not open the door period.

    Called the dealer, they said: place the key into the door lock outside the vehicle and turn it right or left to help unlock it, all it happened the alarm sounded loudly, so I presses the fob key button and that worked, so I tried again with the fob, and everything seemed fine.

    Got into the truck and proceeded to work, 2 miles down the street the truck locks and unlocks itself like someone is standing outside the truck with another fob key and doing it, but after few seconds it stopped and it stayed in the lock position, I reached into the lock function on the door near the window keys and that did not help, every time I unlocked it locks again by itself.

    Pulled off the road called the dealer and they advised me to drive over to them, I did, when arrived I could not get out of the truck until a technician arrived and asked me to turn the ignition off, so I did and I handed him the key through the open window he tried with the fob and by locking and unlocking the vehicle through the door lock by the window functions as I am sitting inside the truck but without luck.

    Then he proceeded to unlock the truck from outside through the door and the alarm sounded as it happened to me at home earlier but by pressing the fob key the alarm stopped and the doors were open, so I got out and they took the truck in and they told me that the Theft Deterrent System Brain is screwed up and I need a new one.

    Coast: $575.00 including labor.

    The part had to be ordered, so they operated the truck locking mechanism manually through the outside door locks and asked me to come back with it next week.

    Long and behold 500 feet down there side road, the truck locks itself again and I am in the same pair of shoes again when I pulled in.

    Drove back again and they told me keep your windows open never put them up after exiting the truck and always try to use the door locks to enter it.

    Drove home, swapped cars, left the truck in the garage and headed to work.

    My truck as some of you know if a 97 LX450, 93K miles.

    Is there and better solution to over come this issue instead of spending $575, like an after market system that can function the same way, or a simple fix that the dealer did not want to do or know off.

    And is it really hard to disable the system and operate the truck without the deterrent system until fund # 6 is full again ?

    Please advise of any ideas that can help me avoid the hefty $$$.

    Thanks for your help.

    Al
     
  2. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Welcome back Al,
    The first thing I would do is to remove the remote from your key ring and get it as far away from the vehicle as possible and see if it clears up. I had exactly the same thing on my truck and it turned out to be a broken remote. The battery is held in place with 2 small plastic tabs. One of them broke and allowed the battery to shift around and lock and unlock at will. Eventually it drained the battery and it stopped. After buying a new battery (#2025) I installed it and put hot glue into the area where the clip used to be and reassembled the remote. 2 weeks and everything is good.
     
  3. ParadiseCruiser

    ParadiseCruiser

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    Greetings Al -

    I had a similar problem on my first 97 Cruiser, and I yanked the alarm out of the thing because it was making me schizoid.

    I have since learned another small detail - though this can either be a life saver, or a long shot foolish quest...

    Failure of the push button switch in the door jam (the one that controls the courtesy lights) has been a fairly well documented problem in these trucks. Many of the guys have inserted a common garden hose washer under the switch to allow a more positive on/off action, especially if the switch is worn.

    The reason it is so important, is that the switch not only controls the courtesy lights, but some of the logic in the computer that controls "headlights off" (as in, the driver has left the vehicle), doors are locked (or not...), and the how the alarm functions in this regard, among other things. It's simple enough to check, and your time will cost way less than $575.00, even if it doesn't solve the problem. (The driver's door switch would be the most likely culprit, though I suppose any door not completely closed, or switch not completely closed, could cause a similar problem.)

    Cheers, R -
     
  4. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    Rick,

    Have you been ? I left you a voice message on your cell last Friday around noonish, I am very sorry, please forgive me for not meeting with you while you were down in Bourne.

    Business needs got hold of my time, I was down in NY for this past Monday and Tuesday (yesterday), just came back very late last night.

    I did what you suggested, I took my fob key away from the truck (down to the basement) and I took the other key from my wife and everything seems in order, I will go down to the gas station in few minutes and see if it will act again on me like this morning.

    I checked my fob key, the clips are OK, do you think I need a new fob key or a new battery ? please advise of anything else.....

    Thank Rick, I really appreciate it.

    Al
     
  5. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    I did get that voice mail but I was already on my way home and fogot about you :-[. Sorry. Yes if the battery is dieing it will cause the FOB key to turn itself on and off and act eratic. It's cheap enough to replace.

    Good-luck.

    BTW: which dealer wants to sell you that part?
     
  6. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    Rick & ParadiseCruiser,

    Thanks guys for your help........

    Rick, sorry for missing you in Bourne.......

    I just came back and here are my observations:

    1- The truck functions normally when using the second fob key at least 80% normal.

    2- When driving or ideling I could not unlock the doors by using the lock and unlock switch by the window keys on the driver side.

    3- The only way the doors will unlock is when stopping and turning off the engine then doors will unlock systematically, never by the switch function on the doors, even if the key is in the ignition or out of it it just seems useless.

    4- I checked all the courtesy lights on the doors and the switchs, they all seem to be in order although I will attepmt to do what ParadiseCruiser suggested in the next day or so.


    DO you think Rick I need to replace the second fob key battery as well ?

    or do I really have something wrong with the system.

    Second Dealer Name: Lexus of Norwood


    Al
     
  7. CDN_Cruiser

    CDN_Cruiser

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    I too have a LX450 and we have had problems with the stock alarm since day one (randomly going off at night). We have stopped using the factory alarm.

    If your alarm has failed, I wold go after market. Either look at a Clifford unit or one of the tracking devices.

    Cheers, Hugh
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Al,
    There are scans of the alarm owner's manual on my web site.

    I would go through the alarm manual carefully and set up the system like you want it. For testing, I would disable the auto-lock/unlock on the doors. I don't like that feature anyway and have it disabled on mine. It sounds like that feature is 'confused' and isn't working properly; perhaps in conjunction with weak battery(ies) in your fobs. If you can stop the problems without that feature then it's your choice whether or not to buy a new ECU.

    As Rick said, replace both CR2025 batteries, then do the alarm set up.

    -B-

    (I have much better RS3000 manual scans that I pulled from Fujitsu's fax back service. The whole process took most of the night a couple of weeks ago. I still need to convert the TIFF images to PDF and update the web site. Maybe later.)
     
  9. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    >> (randomly going off at night). <<

    Hugh,

    There are adjustments in the manual for the glass breakage sensitivity. That may fix your problem if you're interested.

    -B-
     
  10. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    Last night I never enabled the Theft Deter. System (utilized the normal lock and unlock feature through the door).

    This morning I unlocked the truck through the door and proceeded to work and it was fine.

    I have observed the following if I enabled the Theft Deter. system:

    - The lock mechanism on the driver door or the front passenger door are useless, they can not unlock or lock the vehicle doors period.

    -As for the system itself, it is fine by using the second fob key, but the above function is still disabled.

    My question is: Can I disengage the battery cable (+) and hoping that this will reset the system, of course the batteries on the fob keys will replaced also ? please let me know your thought on this one.

    Beowulf, can you let me know what is your web site URL address ?



    Thanks Guys for the help.

    Al
     
  11. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Al,

    Click on my name in the upper left corner of this post. You'll get a page with my profile and a line that says "Website." Click that link.

    What's the latest on your front axle saga? ???

    -B-
     
  12. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    Thanks B-

    The truck is going in to the dealers shop next week on Wednesday, I had to wait for the Master Tech. to be on site for the job. (he was busy all over the region with other dealer problems)

    Hope it will be done correctly this time around.

    Thanks

    Al
     
  13. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Disconnecting the battery I think is a good idea. That is the only way to reset the modules logic as it has to be powered all the time in order to work all the time. If the original fob was the reason for all the erratic behaviour then it's brain probably needs a reset.


    WARNING: If the radio has a security code enabled make sure you know what it is and how to enter it correctly as you only get 3 chances, then the radio is disabled!
     
  14. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    Rick,

    Thanks for your reply, the radio did not have a security code, so I proceeded by unplugging the (+) cable last night and left it off for 5 minutes, during that time I replaced the old fob batteries with 2 new ones (on my fob as well as on my wife's).

    After plugging the battery cable back on, everything operated fine, lock and the unlock feature through the fob is as it was before.

    The only thing is off and it has not changed is the lock switch on the driver side and the passenger side, it did not allow me to lock or unlock whether the truck engine was running or not running.

    I spent sometime last night reading through the FSM, I think I have a faulty ground wire in the door key lock and unlock switch or the door lock control relay circuit, I will have to take the door apart sometime this weekend and see if I can conduct some of the tests shown in the FSM to that regard.


    Finally I can say for sure that the Theft Deter. System has nothing wrong with it at all, it was all along the fob key battery and that might have also triggered the door lock control relay circuit or the master lock and unlock switch to go out. (thanks Rick for the tip regarding the fob)


    Any ideas guys you might have just let me know before I strip that door apart.


    B-

    Thanks for the info you had on your web site regarding the theft deter. system, I was able to down load the pictures to my hard drive and study them at my leisure last night.


    Thanks

    A
     
  15. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Al, can't look at the schematics right now we are heading out to a wet camping trip this weekend :(. I'm assuming the security system now locks/unlocks the doors. If that is true I'd look at the switch because both systems would mostlikely use the same relay circuit. Also try the PS switch. If that works I'd definitealy look into the DS switch and wiring to it. You might be able to swap the DS and PS switches for testing perposes.

    Good-luck
     
  16. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    Rick,

    Thanks for your reply.....

    Yes the security system now locks/unlocks the doors just fine, I had a gut feeling that the main power switch had something wrong with it's wiring, and unfortunately the PS & the DS switch are acting in the same manner, so I could not rule one of them out as good.

    So again I appreciate your help, but as said I am guessing that the main power lock switch wiring has to be checked for failure/faulty wire.


    Hope you have a great time camping with the family, just make sure to stay dry.



    Thanks

    Al
     
  17. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    To All,

    I have taken driver & passenger door apart and checked for circuitry problems / wiring problems etc..

    I could not locate anything wrong whatsoever, everything tested fine, the issue I had stayed with me until yesterday, when I got into the rig (leaving work), and drove for 3 miles down the street I proceeded to lock and unlock the doors via the driver power lock switch, and to my amazement it works, suddenly it just works fine like it never had issues, I checked the passenger power switch also and it works.....

    Hey I am not complaining I am just amazed that the problem disappeared 3 weeks after it started.......am I missing something ?


    Thanks

    Al
     
  18. scottm

    scottm

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    I had the same problem with my '97 about six months ago. I read on another list it may be the locks got out of sequence with the alarm. It did it a few times, straightened itself out and hasn't done it since. I didn't replace the FOB battery or do anything else. I'm glad I have a key hidden on the truck.

    The door thing is possible, maybe they were flexing a little? When it happened to me I had just backed my trailer into deep, rutted sand as far as I could get with everything locked. I quit when I couldn't go any farther and the trailer went sideways, which pushed one rear tire sideways off the hill.
     
  19. Riley

    Riley

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    Boy this thread has got me worried. I'm going to pick my "new" 1995 80 tomorrow and drive it thru the border up to Canada. I have a bad feeling this alarm system will go nuts at the border crossing.

    Anyway I read through the alarm system manual on B's site just now (A little hard to read).

    My question is - can I disable the alarm system and just use it keyless remote without going to the dealer? The manual doesn't seem to state how to do that.

    Thanks for any help.

    Ben
     
  20. Desertmaster

    Desertmaster

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    Ben,

    I do not know that you can separate the alarm from the Keyless Remote, I believe they go hand in hand, you can lock and unlock the truck manually through outside door lock, it worked from me while I had this issue.


    Hope this helps.

    Thanks

    Al