Synthetic winch rope (1 Viewer)

[Jim_Phillips]

Chris

'When snyth rope fails it has no stored energy and does not recoil much at all. It also is not sharp like cable is, so if it touches you it won't cut. I have yet to hear of anyone to get hurt by a synth rope failing.'

Hmmm... Ever let go of the wrong end of an elastic band.. Hurts doesn't it but its only nice soft rubber...

'When pulling with cable I get out of the way. With synth rope I don't worry about where I am in relation to the rope. You can literally be standing over rope and not get hurt if it breaks'

I haven't been mad enough to stand in the danger area when watching break tests or when using it. I'll examine your remains when it breaks and travels by your neck and let you know if you survived.... I'm sure if it broke while you were standing over it it would spoil more than your day :-[

The moral is don't trust the salesman... Misinformation always seems to spread faster than facts.

Cheers, Jim (where has the beer icon gone?)

 

[woody]

As a rock crawling competitor I have seen many ropes and cables fail. When cables fails they often snap back with so much energy it can and does kill people.

Based on this statement, it appears Chris DOES have first hand experience with what occurs when both steel cable and poly winch ropes fail.

I have been fortunate and not seen either fail.

From Rockstomper.com's website:
"Fiber rope weighs less than a quarter what steel cable weighs, won't take a "set" or stay all wound-up like cable will, can't develop sharp frays, dosen't conduct electricity or heat (won't freeze your hands in the winter), won't rust, doesn't kink, doesn't recoil, doesn't stretch, doesn't store energy, etc.

Destructive shop testing has shown Amsteel Blue to not recoil when pulled to break."

No, you can't always believe the manufacturer. But, given the number of competitors that run this type of product, and the requirements of the rockcrawling sanctioning bodies to use this type of product, there must be some hard data out there that it truely is safer.

 

[cruiserdan]

No matter what anybody says, I think I'd still throw a coat or a blanket over the cable anyway............. :-/

 

[woody]

http://www.4x4wire.com/reviews/oro_xline02/

from that page...

"Winch cable backlash is a major concern for anyone working with it or close to it. A broken steel cable can be deadly. Why? We've all heard the same thing, that steel is dangerous because it stretches. And that synthetic rope, either UHMWPE or X-Line, is safe because it does not stretch. Correct? I don't think so. The danger from steel cable comes from its weight, not the stretch.

Steel stretches... as much as 1.7% elongation at break, but that's less than synthetic. Compare that to X-Line's 4.6% elongation at break (14,000 lbs. for the 5/16" dia. rope). That would make X-Line more dangerous, but it isn't. Let me dust off some book learnin' from way back. Energy is mass times velocity squared, E=MV². The weight (M) plays a direct (not squared) role in the energy equation. The velocity (V) of the rope is a bigger factor because it's squared, yet the lighter rope just drops dead on break. There must be a physical property we're not considering. How about... what's it called... snap? Snap factor. How quickly does the elongated mass return to its original dimension when the tension is released? I'll wager steel returns to its original length almost instantly, which would create a massive acceleration in a large mass. Synthetic rope (educated guessing here) probably returns slowly. The slow acceleration and light weight create no energy. The rope drops harmlessly.

The notion that synthetic rope does not stretch has a basis in truth, I think, when compared to traditional nylon and polyester ropes. Those old-technology products have much higher stretch figures and vastly lower strengths.

UHMWPE differs here, because it stretches less than X-Line. UHMWPE has an elongation of only 0.79% at 30% of breaking strength (that's about 4,200 lbs. pull). X-Line's stretch is 1.2% at the same tension, or about 50% higher. Is the additional stretch a problem? Probably not. Remember that the synthetic rope has a much higher breaking strength than steel, so the large amount of stretch will not be seen in real life."

If I find more interesting tidbits, I'll add those too...

And yes, despite it's safer characteristics, I still ensure people stand back. IIRC, competitions still require a weighted bag over the rope/cable as well. No point in pushing Darwinism...hehehe

 

[Jim_Phillips]

Woody

I'm with you - it is safer than steel cable.

My only issue is with the statement that it won't recoil and that it drops to the floor. It doesn't. I've witnessed a demo at a 4x4 event and had it break on me. I can tell you it whips back pretty damn hard.

All I'm saying is, take care - don't assume that you will come to no harm if you use synthetic rope. It is easy to dampen the force because the rope is so light - do take this precaution.

Nuff said, Jim

 

[MrClamp]

Yo Upnrover dude - maybe you need to find a new rope company   ..... Some of us have a lot of experience with rope and it's charachteristics. 8)  I still vote that if you're going to push product you do it ala commercial

Seems to me that you share an opinion on your vote with yourself.  I Don't think you'd say the same STUFF if some market mgr or something from Toyota started plugging some new product on this board....................

If you have some personal vendetta with Up and Over....  contact them...

BTW how many lines have YOU seen break?

 

[Beowulf]

MrClamp,

>> I Don't think you'd say the same s*** if ... <<

Is this the same as "the same poop"  or "the same s#!t" ?  If it is then one of the alternative terms is what I prefer that you use. Some of us fight constant battles with our system admins on what sites are appropriate for access. Profanity triggers alarms and web sites get scrutinized.  Please keep the vulgarity on POR... I don't visit there.

Besides, Junk is a good guy and everyone on this section likes him.   (Well, maybe not everyone.) Choose your battles wisely.

-B-

 

[cruiserdan]

Ya don't have to like the Junkster but you gotta LOVE the shirt

 

[MrClamp]

MrClamp,

>> I Don't think you'd say the same s*** if ... <<

Is this the same as "the same poop"  or "the same s#!t" ?  If it is then one of the alternative terms is what I prefer that you use. Some of us fight constant battles with our system admins on what sites are appropriate for access. Profanity triggers alarms and web sites get scrutinized.  Please keep the vulgarity on POR... I don't visit there.

Besides, Junk is a good guy and everyone on this section likes him.   (Well, maybe not everyone.) Choose your battles wisely.

-B-

I appologize to you for my language and therefor have edited my post...

That being said,  Fortunatly for me, My life and friends do not revolve around a message board. I could care less who "junk" is or further more who likes him.  and as far as battles go,  he's the one who seems to want to start one with some shop that just because he doesn't like them...  They have to post only in the vendor section.

But I guess I have to Bash them too just because junk does :

 

[woody]

Tks for the Edit on the post...

and I wish I had the time to revolve my life here...got too many Cruiser projects to keep up with....lol

(noted a trend recently....the VAST majority of the ih8mud.com traffic occurs from M-F...the weekends are DEAD! Guess that's when all the questions asked during the week are worked on! lol)

 

[cruiserdan]

I don't believe anybody else said anything about hating somebody. :-/

 

[woody]

The forum participants are a varied bunch.

Some ya like
Some seem so darn nice it's almost irritating (edited the cussin...hehehe)
Some ya wonder what planet they are from
Some need a clue, but never get one
Some just irritate ya because they can
Some you question their intentions
Some know more info than you think possible
As noted, all are human....

All in all, there's a great group here, and from the "reports" I track across the interweb, this forum gets high marks for the quality of content and caliber of participants.  

I have nothing to do with it, I can be a PITA too...lol

There are exceptions, but even the sassy ones have lots of knowledge...lol

 

[Gumby]

Don't make me bring the Hall Monitor in here.
I'm thinking on deleting this whole thread because it's getting personal, but there is a lot of good info in here. At least on page one.
MrClamp if you want the last word, I'm afraid it's gonna have to be in a PM.

I would like to know more about synthetic rope as someday I'll be able to afford a winch. Can we get back on subject please?

 

[cruiserdan]

Yes please, lets.

I'll start with a serious question. I would like to change to synthetic cable. I have an older Warn 8000 lb compact winch. I think it's a 20910 maybe. Don't remember for sure.(Yes, I know it's not big enough). It has 80 feet of cable now. How much synthetic could I get on it and what diameter should I get?

Dan.

 

[Junk]

Gumby - just take a bunch of those munchkins with ya and tell them to yank really hard (on the truck)

Cdan - When going to synth, if you stick with the same diameter rope (ie. 3/8 to 3/8) then you'll end up still w/ the 80'. Some folks try to cram more on, but then it's tougher to spool in etc - so stick with same for same. Sell that thing to B and get a real one will ya?

... and on the above? ... :-X ...

 

[Chris_Geiger]

Chris

'When snyth rope fails it has no stored energy and does not recoil much at all. It also is not sharp like cable is, so if it touches you it won't cut. I have yet to hear of anyone to get hurt by a synth rope failing.'

Hmmm... Ever let go of the wrong end of an elastic band.. Hurts doesn't it but its only nice soft rubber...

'When pulling with cable I get out of the way. With synth rope I don't worry about where I am in relation to the rope. You can literally be standing over rope and not get hurt if it breaks'

I haven't been mad enough to stand in the danger area when watching break tests or when using it. I'll examine your remains when it breaks and travels by your neck and let you know if you survived.... I'm sure if it broke while you were standing over it it would spoil more than your day  :-[

The moral is don't trust the salesman... Misinformation always seems to spread faster than facts.

Cheers, Jim (where has the beer icon gone?)

I have witnessed well over a thousand individual winch pulls and its from this experience that I speak. I have been within a foot of a synth rope at failure in competition. It does not hurt at all. I won't go anywhere near a loaded wire rope but synth rope is completely different.

I am much more worried about the resulting damage of loosing a winch cable on a truly hard pull like going up Surprise Canyon, Upper Proving Grounds, or Upper Hellderado. On trails like this a cable failure is very likely to result in a crash and roll.

Many people have died as a result of cable failure, but I have not herd of a single injury from synth rope failures.

 

[Photoman]

First, I am now extremely sorry I started this thread, but now I have to ask - Chris, the synthetic failures you saw, what was the cause/causes if you can remember.
Bill

 

[tech_dog]

One other issue to think about when switcing to synthetic is the amount of pressure that's being applied to the drum. Every turn of the drum while the cable is under tension results in increased force trying to crush the drum. I'd be concerned that the different material, and the fact that it "doesn't care how it gets rolled back onto the drum" could both put more and/or uneven pressure on the drum, causing drum deformation or failure.

Just a thought... but that may be why Warn doesn't like them.

 

[OGBeno]

This is a great thread....

For all the opportunities....

Anyone heard from McClamp??

Oh yeah, I'm using winchline.com's synthetic rope=3/8" x 90'...fits snug, but well when wound up correctly.

-o-

 

[tech_dog]

I'm not sure of the details of your dig, but you shouldn't write it off so quickly.

This is known to destroy fishing reels in a very similar way when certain line materials are used. The forces add with each turn and can get huge.