I just sent a post to 80scool about AU oil.
kurt
kurt
Synthetic Oil (1 Viewer)
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Jim,
>> CAFE is corporate average fuel economy. <<
>> It relates to the fuel usage of the entire model line as a combined number. <<
Our US government, in the ever increasing invasion into everything in our lives, has mandated that manufacturers meet corporate fuel economy goals. The government sets these goals. With most things here in the USA we have a "free economy" and the market will drive what the manufacturers sell and at what price they will sell it. This is an example where the government is deciding what is good for the US population.
In most cases the government is trying to do the right thing; like DS air bags, then PS air bags, now side air bags. If it were up to consumers we probably wouldn't buy vehicles with air bags due to the cost. The government mandates it, the costs go up, but not as much as they would if they were only building 1,000 vehicles with air bags instead of 10,000,000.
That's probably more than you wanted to know.
-B-
>> CAFE is corporate average fuel economy. <<
>> It relates to the fuel usage of the entire model line as a combined number. <<
Our US government, in the ever increasing invasion into everything in our lives, has mandated that manufacturers meet corporate fuel economy goals. The government sets these goals. With most things here in the USA we have a "free economy" and the market will drive what the manufacturers sell and at what price they will sell it. This is an example where the government is deciding what is good for the US population.
In most cases the government is trying to do the right thing; like DS air bags, then PS air bags, now side air bags. If it were up to consumers we probably wouldn't buy vehicles with air bags due to the cost. The government mandates it, the costs go up, but not as much as they would if they were only building 1,000 vehicles with air bags instead of 10,000,000.
That's probably more than you wanted to know.
-B-
Okay, since you all got me going I went and got some more information concerning oil. The thickness of oil at operating temperature is expressed as Kenematic Viscosity (cST) @ 100 Celcius. The ranges that are allowable are as follows:
30 weight (meaning 5w-30,10w-30 or straight 30) 9.3-12.5
40 weight 12.5-16.3
50 weight 16.3-21.9
Interestingly here are numbers for some oils
Mobil 1 5w-30 & 10w-30 10.0
Mobil Drive Clean Semi-Synthetic 10w-30 11.4
Valvoline Synthetic 10w-30 11.5
Redline 10w-30 11.0
Mobil 1 0w-40 14.3
Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 14.8
Mobil 1 15w-50 16.3
30 weight (meaning 5w-30,10w-30 or straight 30) 9.3-12.5
40 weight 12.5-16.3
50 weight 16.3-21.9
Interestingly here are numbers for some oils
Mobil 1 5w-30 & 10w-30 10.0
Mobil Drive Clean Semi-Synthetic 10w-30 11.4
Valvoline Synthetic 10w-30 11.5
Redline 10w-30 11.0
Mobil 1 0w-40 14.3
Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 14.8
Mobil 1 15w-50 16.3
I get Oil Pressure whilst on the Starter Motor and the Engine starts first time every time. :
If you have ever had the pressure exceed 15psi on the Radiator Cap, You will know that the temperature is about 115 Celcius and at about this temperature Synthetic Oil Separtes.
Synthetic oil 's resistence to high temperature breakdown is vastly superior to organic oil. If you are worried about the effects of high heat you should be using synthetic oil.
Okay, why did all of you have to get my obsessive personality going on the this oil thing?
So I went to the Mobil Austrailia website and looked up the recommended oils for the twin cam landcruiser motor and came up with this List:
Mobil Super XHP (Mineral Oil 20w-50)
Mobil Super S (Semi-Synth 10w-40 & 15w-50)
Mobil Syn S (Synthetic 10w-40)
Mobil 1 (Synthetic 5w-50)
So it looks like given the hotter Austrailian climate and the lack of a need to meet CAFE standards that a heavier oil is used outside the US.
I also checked Mobil USA's site and the Usenet groups and found that Mobil specs their Mobil 1 0w-40 as a replacement for 5w-30. Also the new Mobil 0w-40 meets the new MB 229.5 (Mercedes Benz) spec which is supposed to be the most stringent standard. I am thinking I will try the 0w-40 since it is a replacement for 5w-30 having the cold start flow of the 5w and higher film strengh and a 30 weight oil at operating temperature.
Cary
So I went to the Mobil Austrailia website and looked up the recommended oils for the twin cam landcruiser motor and came up with this List:
Mobil Super XHP (Mineral Oil 20w-50)
Mobil Super S (Semi-Synth 10w-40 & 15w-50)
Mobil Syn S (Synthetic 10w-40)
Mobil 1 (Synthetic 5w-50)
So it looks like given the hotter Austrailian climate and the lack of a need to meet CAFE standards that a heavier oil is used outside the US.
I also checked Mobil USA's site and the Usenet groups and found that Mobil specs their Mobil 1 0w-40 as a replacement for 5w-30. Also the new Mobil 0w-40 meets the new MB 229.5 (Mercedes Benz) spec which is supposed to be the most stringent standard. I am thinking I will try the 0w-40 since it is a replacement for 5w-30 having the cold start flow of the 5w and higher film strengh and a 30 weight oil at operating temperature.
Cary
Cary:
I'm really glad to see your research paralles mine (in earlier posts), and reinforces my theology - because at this point for me, its more belief than anything. I became a Mobileite when I bought GWT. Fear of hot weather and a lack of faith in the mystic signs from the little red needle of the sacred oilcan disturbed me, and finally drove me to turn my back on the holy owners manual and join the Mobileite's 5W-50 splinter sect. Now I can drive with the assurrance that I am not alone in my faith - thanks much.
Luxor, here I come. Speaking of gambling, Eduardo, I bet I have the only LX450 there with a 60" High Lift on the back. BigMac
I'm really glad to see your research paralles mine (in earlier posts), and reinforces my theology - because at this point for me, its more belief than anything. I became a Mobileite when I bought GWT. Fear of hot weather and a lack of faith in the mystic signs from the little red needle of the sacred oilcan disturbed me, and finally drove me to turn my back on the holy owners manual and join the Mobileite's 5W-50 splinter sect. Now I can drive with the assurrance that I am not alone in my faith - thanks much.
Luxor, here I come. Speaking of gambling, Eduardo, I bet I have the only LX450 there with a 60" High Lift on the back. BigMac
0W. That is for new Honda's 0W20. Unless your motor has low mi on it I would ? the ides of using 0w40. Maybe in winter but summer. I never had a problem with 10w30 in WI and it gets very cold -20 f.
kurt
kurt
Landtoy80,
Actually 0w-40 is not the same as 0w-40. When looking at oil, the first number refers to how the oil acts when cold , i.e. 0w means it pumps like 0 weight oil when it is 30 below, 5w like five weight, 10w like 10 weight and so on. The second number refers to how the oil acts at operating temperature and is the real weight of the oil. So when you look at Honda (and Fords) the 0W-20 oil acts like 20 weight oil when hot. 10w-30 acts like 30 weight when hot. 0w-40 acts like 40 weight when hot and give greater film strength and is thicker than 30 weight. It is entirely different than the honda oil.
There is a reason that you have not seen oil like 0w-40 until recently. In order to get a mineral oil to act as a multiweight, you must add viscosity enhancers which break down over time. The wider the spread, the more modifiers. Synthetic, because the base stock is much more stable, does not require nearly the amount of modifiers to be multigrade. Example Mobil 1 10w-30 does not require viscosity modifiers to be multigrade. With the new synthetic formulas it takes very few modifiers to meet the 0w-40 spec, and the oil is stable.
The new 0w-40 Mobil 1 is one of the few oils that meets the very strict MB 229.5 spec, and is factory fill for Porsche and Mercedes. Cars from Europe have used heavier, and continue to use heavier oil, due to the higher sustained speeds and heavier loads that their engines are subject to (Think about a 1.8 liter 130 horsepower car running full throttle on the Autobahn for hours, versus an American V-8 runing at 80 mph for hours, big difference in load).
You should also be aware that not all synthetics are created equal. Apparently there are Type I, II, III, IV and V base stocks. Many "Synthetic" oils are taken from Type II & III stocks. Mobil 1, certain Shell and other oils sold in Europe are made from only Type IV & Type V stocks. Supposedely, Mobil 1 is the only oil sold in the US made from these superior base stocks (I should note that Redline and Amsoil supposedly use these better stocks, but neither meets the latest A5, 229.3, or 229.5 specs)
Now that I have written all this, I will throw out the caveat, that this is from memory, and much of this information comes from usenet groups, which while normally accurate are subject to error.
For me, I am going to be using the Mobil 0w-40 going forward. Given that I experience temperatures from 0 F in the winter (Tahoe Trips) to over 110 in the summer it should meet all my needs.
Cary
Actually 0w-40 is not the same as 0w-40. When looking at oil, the first number refers to how the oil acts when cold , i.e. 0w means it pumps like 0 weight oil when it is 30 below, 5w like five weight, 10w like 10 weight and so on. The second number refers to how the oil acts at operating temperature and is the real weight of the oil. So when you look at Honda (and Fords) the 0W-20 oil acts like 20 weight oil when hot. 10w-30 acts like 30 weight when hot. 0w-40 acts like 40 weight when hot and give greater film strength and is thicker than 30 weight. It is entirely different than the honda oil.
There is a reason that you have not seen oil like 0w-40 until recently. In order to get a mineral oil to act as a multiweight, you must add viscosity enhancers which break down over time. The wider the spread, the more modifiers. Synthetic, because the base stock is much more stable, does not require nearly the amount of modifiers to be multigrade. Example Mobil 1 10w-30 does not require viscosity modifiers to be multigrade. With the new synthetic formulas it takes very few modifiers to meet the 0w-40 spec, and the oil is stable.
The new 0w-40 Mobil 1 is one of the few oils that meets the very strict MB 229.5 spec, and is factory fill for Porsche and Mercedes. Cars from Europe have used heavier, and continue to use heavier oil, due to the higher sustained speeds and heavier loads that their engines are subject to (Think about a 1.8 liter 130 horsepower car running full throttle on the Autobahn for hours, versus an American V-8 runing at 80 mph for hours, big difference in load).
You should also be aware that not all synthetics are created equal. Apparently there are Type I, II, III, IV and V base stocks. Many "Synthetic" oils are taken from Type II & III stocks. Mobil 1, certain Shell and other oils sold in Europe are made from only Type IV & Type V stocks. Supposedely, Mobil 1 is the only oil sold in the US made from these superior base stocks (I should note that Redline and Amsoil supposedly use these better stocks, but neither meets the latest A5, 229.3, or 229.5 specs)
Now that I have written all this, I will throw out the caveat, that this is from memory, and much of this information comes from usenet groups, which while normally accurate are subject to error.
For me, I am going to be using the Mobil 0w-40 going forward. Given that I experience temperatures from 0 F in the winter (Tahoe Trips) to over 110 in the summer it should meet all my needs.
Cary
Cary:
Right on. And as I noted before, it makes me kinda wonder why Toyota (USA) specifies 10W-30 for higher temps than 5W-30; the cold-relevant (5 vs 10) end of the scale seems irrelevant to the hot end of the scale where 30=30. BigMac
Right on. And as I noted before, it makes me kinda wonder why Toyota (USA) specifies 10W-30 for higher temps than 5W-30; the cold-relevant (5 vs 10) end of the scale seems irrelevant to the hot end of the scale where 30=30. BigMac
Now, where do we get 0W-40 M1?
kurt
kurt
me runnum 5-30 full time all time, but me baby me lil mostly stock 80. 
I wonder now if some of the thinking that I've heard is a myth. It was said to run dino oil say the first 10k miles to get the rings etc. to seat; then switch to synthetic for the longterm. It did seem odd in a way since some manufacturers were running synthetic right out of the box, unless they were doing an engine runin themselves before shipping.
Bill
Bill
Toyota specifies 10W-30 oil for higher temps than 5W-30 because 10W-30 has a higher viscosity than 5W-30 and is thus more appropriate for higher temps. The two numbers in the rating specify an allowable viscosity range at two different temperatures. Oil meeting 5W-30 rating and oil meeting 10W-30 rating have different viscosity curves.
This would be based of dino oil, right? If Toyota based it on syn oil , would they give the same visc.?
kurt
kurt
I got the AU viscosty from Andrew at 80school
1fzfe motor
20w50 oil- -7 deg to 38 plus 19 f to 100 f
15w40 oil -10 deg to 38 plus 14 f to 100 f
10w30 oil -18 to +38 deg 0 f to 100 f
5w30 -30 to 8 deg celcius -22 f to 46 f (WI weather)
all temps are in celcius
Andrew
conversions are from http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/cgi-bin/temperature.cgi
so if they are worng, don't kill the landtoy80
kurt
1fzfe motor
20w50 oil- -7 deg to 38 plus 19 f to 100 f
15w40 oil -10 deg to 38 plus 14 f to 100 f
10w30 oil -18 to +38 deg 0 f to 100 f
5w30 -30 to 8 deg celcius -22 f to 46 f (WI weather)
all temps are in celcius
Andrew
conversions are from http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/cgi-bin/temperature.cgi
so if they are worng, don't kill the landtoy80
kurt
Mobil 1 0w-40 should be available at all the major autoparts chains, Pep Boys, Autozone, Kragen, etc.. I bought some yesterday at a local chain.
The reason that Toyota calls for 5w-30 as the standard oil is due to EPA rules that require that the manufacture specify the same weight oil that they use in the fuel economy tests. They are even now requiring that the manufacture sign a declaration that the oil used in the test is available at the dealer and is normal oil used for oil changes.
Cary
The reason that Toyota calls for 5w-30 as the standard oil is due to EPA rules that require that the manufacture specify the same weight oil that they use in the fuel economy tests. They are even now requiring that the manufacture sign a declaration that the oil used in the test is available at the dealer and is normal oil used for oil changes.
Cary
0w-40 With 220k mi, would I have any porblems using 0w-40 M1 in summer? Or would I be better to use 10w-50 for summer and 0w-40 winter?
kurt
kurt
In Wisconsin, it probably doesn't get much hotter than 90F in the summer, right? Even 10w30 would probably work. 0w40 is overkill. I'm running 5w40 M1 Delvac in a new engine spec'd w/ 5w30...so far, so good, and it supposed to be 106F today. Engine consumes virtually no oil w/ the heavier oil compared to 1/2 qt every 1500 mi w/ 5w30 (engine has 14K mi on it, buddy has the same vehicle w/ 30K mi, same oil consumption w/ 5w30). As prev. mentioned, I suspect the engine wasn't really designed for 5w30, but honda probably used it in EPA tests. What a scam.
Here are a couple of more articles concerning synthetics. The first discusses the use of less expensive base stocks by Castrol v. Mobil 1 (it is from Car & Driver)
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=3631
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_exxon_mobil_improves/index.htm
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=3631
http://wardsauto.com/ar/auto_exxon_mobil_improves/index.htm
