swapped points, no start with pic of where I set gap. (1 Viewer)

[slickrock]

Engine will not turn over after changing points.

This is the first time I have had to deal with points. Am I adjusting the point gap in the correct place? I used a matchbook cover in between the center of the distributor and the red stop on the points. once snug, I tightened down the screw. The matchbook cover was snug but not tight enough to rip when i took it out.

Am I totally incorrect in where I adjusted the point gap? If so, can someone show me where I should adjust it?



Or should I have adjusted the point gap at red arrow where the match cover wedges in the arm gap and then slide the mounting point enough to allow the match cover to move and then tighten the screw?

 

[colbytron]

is it sitting on a high point on the rotor? I can't tell from the photo.

 

[colbytron]

if it is sitting on a flat spot have a buddy just barely hit the ignition and try to get the right spot

 

[IDave]

Looks like you are saying you adjusted the rubbing block of the breaker arm so that it doesn't touch the distributor cam. Which is not what you want to do, and won't get your points gap anywhere near what you want. The points are just above the screw you have arrowed, and about an inch (in the picture) to the left of the rubbing block....

 

[slickrock]

Looks like you are saying you adjusted the rubbing block of the breaker arm so that it doesn't touch the distributor cam. Which is not what you want to do, and won't get your points gap anywhere near what you want. The points are just above the screw you have arrowed, and about an inch (in the picture) to the left of the rubbing block....

So I should use the gap at the red arrow above the screw (sorry tried to edit my first picture and it was not allowed so new picture).

 

[fj80toyman]

Hey Slick,

Point gap is adjusted when the pad (you call stop rest) is on the high point of the cam. (The 'gap' is the maximum opening of the points).

Then the gap, whatever the spec is, is adjusted at the red arrow by loosening the mounting screw and very lightly moving the points (increasing or decreasing the gap) by using a screwdriver in the little slot directly below the yellow arrow that points to your 'adjusting screw'. Then tighten down your adjusting screw (mounting screw).

I don't know the thickness of a matchbook so I can speak to the accuracy of using one of those. I would usually use a proper gap gage, that's before I went pointless. (Pertronix - I'm so happy!)

Rotsa ruck. Dan.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Yep-you adjust at the high point on the shaft, not at the low spot, and you adjust the POINT gap, not the pad gap. I got rid of my last set of points this past winter, after 30 years of on and off messing with points. Electronic ignitions are much better. And before anyone says it isn't field repairable, I just carry a spare pick up and ignition module.

Anyone need my old dwell meter? Just kidding, I'll keep it as a collectors item.

Off topic, but you can swap a complete FJ60 ignition into your truck, and get a better distributor and eliminate the points entirely. If you don't want to do that, Mark's Offroad carries the Pertronix stuff, and I hear it is very nice. There are lots of good options.

 

[IDave]

You've got it now, Slickrock.

My feeling is, there are all sorts of ways to upgrade and modernize our trucks. Automobiles have improved in many ways in 40 years since ours were built. But it's fun to do it old school. If it wasn't we could all just buy FJCs and be done with it!

 

[pb4ugo]

IMO using a matchbook cover is a field repair, get some feeler gauges or a dwell meter and set it to correct spec.

 

[slickrock]

I'll get a dwell meter or a feeler guage today on the way home.

So that is why it didn't start. I need to put the red stop on the hexagonal point of the center shaft and use a feeler to get the point gap to .25-.45mm by snugging the tension screw and using a screwdriver in the little slot (just below the screw) to open or close the gap.

I take it I have to keep bumping the starter to turn the center shaft to have the point angle on the stop of the points?

 

[Poser]

I take it I have to keep bumping the starter to turn the center shaft to have the point angle on the stop of the points?

Or put the transmission in top gear and just rock the truck a bit....

 

[slickrock]

Or put the transmission in top gear and just rock the truck a bit....

Much easier. Thanks.

 

[Pin_Head]

Forget the dwell meter and spend your money on a factory service manual instead. There is something wierd about the dwell specs because I have never gotten it to run at the spec. Just set it with a .018 gauge or a match book cover. +/- .004 won't matter with these engines, so eyeballing it is OK too. The timing is retarded (by half the dwell angle change) as the gap increases, so you need to adjust the timing after changing the point gap.

 

[bsmith123]

point gap

But just to touch on another points issue after you gap them open on the ramp put them on a flat and make sure they touch. The starting and stopping of electricity flow is what makes the coil work

as long as they open and close your engine should fire but set with a gage or dwell meter to optimize them.

look for pitting on the breaker points and look for arcing if it is arcing badly you could have a bad condenser or ballast resistor

Item B is where you are looking for gap--make sure they dont slip on you

in the pic they show a gap on the flat part of the cam that would be wrong because the points need to both open and close to make spark but the way they are shown they would always be open.

There are lots of pics like this on howstuffworks.com if you need more info

 

[IDave]

Forget the dwell meter and spend your money on a factory service manual instead. There is something wierd about the dwell specs because I have never gotten it to run at the spec.....

That's very interesting. Both of my trucks seem to run fine with a FSM specified dwell angle of 41 degrees (38-44 degrees in the older 1964 manual).

 

[fj80toyman]

Pin_Head brings up a good point, timing should/must be set after the dwell/gap, so another easy way to make sure you're on the peak of the cam is to loosen the diz and just rotate the housing until you're where you need to be. Make a mark or mental note where the housing is before loosening the screw, put it back roughly in the same place, fire it up and time it.

Dan.

 

[slickrock]

Thank you to everyone for the help.
My points head looked like a squashed mushroom and the stationary part of the arm had a hole through it. Good times.

I finally got here running. Set the point gap at .35mm (dead center of acceptable gap with a brand new feeler gauge) but at first it wouldn't start. So I tried this and that until I figured it was that the condenser wire causing no juice to get through. It appears that the condenser wire needs to mount up against the inside nut on the mounting stud off of the distributor and the 2nd black wire that also attaches to the same stud comes second. Probably due to voltage drop or maybe I didn’t have it seated properly in the reverse order. I also cranked down the stud onto the distributor before switching the wires around.

Speaking of the second wire that attaches to the same stud as the condenser wire, what does that go to? It come out of the bundle going down to the starter. I can’t figure it out on the wiring diagram I have. Is that to the AMP gauge in the dash?

Also, can someone explain to me exactly what the job of the condenser is? I know it is needed, but I would also like to know why? I believe that while going to SnT, I had two instances of a 1 second drop in power caused by a weakening condenser that was overheating.

 

[slickrock]

Forget the dwell meter and spend your money on a factory service manual instead. There is something wierd about the dwell specs because I have never gotten it to run at the spec. Just set it with a .018 gauge or a match book cover. +/- .004 won't matter with these engines, so eyeballing it is OK too. The timing is retarded (by half the dwell angle change) as the gap increases, so you need to adjust the timing after changing the point gap.

I have a copy. It was either an oversight on my part or not detailed enough for my pee sized noggin to get that the stop had to be at the apex of the shaft before setting the gap width. As always, Mud helped me figure it out.

But just to touch on another points issue after you gap them open on the ramp put them on a flat and make sure they touch. The starting and stopping of electricity flow is what makes the coil work

as long as they open and close your engine should fire but set with a gage or dwell meter to optimize them.

look for pitting on the breaker points and look for arcing if it is arcing badly you could have a bad condenser or ballast resistor

Item B is where you are looking for gap--make sure they dont slip on you

in the pic they show a gap on the flat part of the cam that would be wrong because the points need to both open and close to make spark but the way they are shown they would always be open.

There are lots of pics like this on howstuffworks.com if you need more info

Thnaks for the picture. Very nice.

Pin_Head brings up a good point, timing should/must be set after the dwell/gap, so another easy way to make sure you're on the peak of the cam is to loosen the diz and just rotate the housing until you're where you need to be. Make a mark or mental note where the housing is before loosening the screw, put it back roughly in the same place, fire it up and time it.

Dan.

Timing is this weekend. I was doing the the points while doing laundry for the wife and my 4 year old was helping me. Once it fired up and idled nicely, I decided to call it for the night. I did notice it was idling a bit low so I will ahve ot adjust the timing ASAP.

 

[Coolerman]

The primary purpose of the condensor is to shunt to ground the back EMF generated by the collasping magnetic field on the primary side of the coil when the points open.

English translation: It helps reduce point acring which burns the points.

If the condensor is shorted the coil will have power all the time and the truck will not run and you will burn out the coil.

If the condensor is open or dryed out the truck will run but the points will burn rapidly.

 

[Pin_Head]

Speaking of the second wire that attaches to the same stud as the condenser wire, what does that go to? It come out of the bundle going down to the starter. I can’t figure it out on the wiring diagram I have. Is that to the AMP gauge in the dash?

.

What is the color code? If the wire connects to the distributor stud (or the coil - side; same thing) then the only thing it could likely be is a connection for a tachometer, which would be an after market wire.

There is a black/yellow stripe wire from the starter solenoid to the + side of the coil on most 70s Cruisers that assists in starting in cold weather by bypassing the ballast resistor.