1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

start up rattle?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by semlin, May 13, 2003.

  1. semlin

    semlin rocker

    Messages:
    5,209
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    324
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    north of 49
    Ok, so last week so I drained out my synthetic oil fresh in December with 2500 miles and put in some fresh mobil 1 due to my being unhappy with looking at the big ugly Mopar oil filter my former mechanic installed during that oil change right after I bought the truck (next I am going to changeover the toothed aftermarket belts he installed for oem since they are deafening me). I put in a small OEM 20004 filter. Everything is fine but now I have a slight intermittant start up rattle where previously I had none. It lasts for under a second and almost sounds like the starter is still engaged. Is this the famous start up rattle and, if so, is it normal to get it with the small filter?
     
  2. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,981
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Surrounded by Cruisers from all over the world
    Simon,

    Cold start rattle in a 1FZ is quite common. I have been assured that it is not harmful. As far as why you are just now hearing it I can't say. Some folks think that the smaller filter mitigates the rattle. I have used both those and the original large ones. In both cases I get the rattle. I just sort of ignore it AND listen to it to see if it stays the same. Once I pulled the coil wire and let the engine crank for a few seconds and then plugged it back in and started the engine....No rattle. I think maybe the engine catches too soon sometimes :dunno:

    Dan
     
  3. BMT

    BMT

    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    I am using a K&N filter and the duration on the start up rattle seems to be greater than with the small Toyota filter. I am going to try the TRD filter next to see if it is any different.
     
  4. Jim_Chow

    Jim_Chow

    Messages:
    2,479
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2003
    Location:
    Turquoise Trail, N NM
    By any chance could it be the timing chain? This happens in toyota truck 4 cyl engines before the oil pressure has built up sufficiently for the tensioner to take up the slack in the worn chain. When the problem is ignored, the t-chain cuts through the coolant lines, and the engine is hosed.
     
  5. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,981
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Surrounded by Cruisers from all over the world
    Jim,

    Nope.

    My factory buddies insist that the "rattle" is not harmful. As I have Known these guys for many years I tend to believe them. I'm at 109K 30+k with forced induction. I have 19+ inches of vaccuum at idle and I can't remember the last time I added oil to it. A chain sawing thru the timing cover of a 22R is a whole different animal.......

    &nbsp:Dan :beer:
     
  6. ELW2

    ELW2

    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Location:
    USA
    With standard large Toyota filter, dealer 10W-30 conventional oil, 40F ambient temperature, and 1900 RPM cold start, my 1FZ-FE engine 'rattled' for a few seconds at startup.

    With K&N HP-3001 filter and Castrol GTX High Mileage 10W-30, under same conditions, the cold startup rattle is completely gone.

    It's been gone for about a week. We'll see if it stays gone for 5,000 miles, until the next oil change.

    Still plan to clean the throttle body to lower the cold start RPMs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
  7. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

    Messages:
    18,423
    Likes Received:
    597
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Groveland MA
    I pulled apart a 1993 1FZ-FE recently and it had a different style chain tensioner. The later ones were strictly oil driven and would relax when the oil pressure dropped.

    The one in this engine had a ratchet piston on it. When the oil pressure came on for the first time it would tension the chain. However, when the presure subsided the ratchet mechanism would maintain the tension on the slipper. This would eliminate the chain from becoming loose and needing the oil pressure to properly tension the chain after it was shut off.
     
  8. Kernal

    Kernal

    Messages:
    5,920
    Likes Received:
    340
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Interesting about the tensioner, any thoughts on why they changed the design, or which is better, other than the rattle, like could the old style overtighten or put too much strain on the chain at start up??
     
  9. kidglove13

    kidglove13

    Messages:
    3,578
    Likes Received:
    14
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    My rig does this also at start for the first second or two that is it.
    I do believe it is the timing chain and then the oil presure goes up and tigthens the tensionor as others have mention above.
    I have tried several types of oil and it has always made the "rattle" at start, more so in cold weather.
    I just pretty much ignore it, well I try to anyway.
    I am always listening for odd stuff.
     
  10. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

    Messages:
    18,423
    Likes Received:
    597
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Location:
    Groveland MA
    I have no idea, it was just in there. I looked on TOYODIY and they do list 2 numbers for that part. But they aren't the best resource for part numbers either.
     
  11. Kernal

    Kernal

    Messages:
    5,920
    Likes Received:
    340
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    What is actually causing the rattle, the chain hitting something or just vibrating?? Hard to picture it, never seen this engine apart close up.