- Thread starter
- #81
Pictures are all gone.
Probably because of the migration. I'll check with woody.
Rear axle job and pics. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter OGBeno
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Probably because of the migration. I'll check with woody.
- Thread starter
- #83
I don't think the pics have migrated over yet from Woody's upgrade. Hopefully they will soon.
Good write up. No issue with the pics.
I often wonder why Onur has such strange trail breakage compared to the rest of us.
BTW, nice parking brake
I often wonder why Onur has such strange trail breakage compared to the rest of us.
BTW, nice parking brake
- Thread starter
- #87
Here is the hub with the reinforced dowel pins and new steelies!!!!!
Also got some new springs from Christo too--a nice 4" heavy with a progressive rating.
Also got some new springs from Christo too--a nice 4" heavy with a progressive rating.
As always Onur, good pics and write up.
ntsqd
technerd
Tentatively venturing out of the 60's forum, lead here by a link....
I concur with IdahoDoug, axle shafts are designed to "wind-up" though I do not know about winding a full turn. That would be asking a lot. A problem when two axle shafts are different lengths is to make them have the same torsional spring rate. If the short side shaft is the same OD as the long side shaft, then they are not the same spring rate. I would then expect the short side to take much more of a beating than the long side. The short side's OD should be smaller than the long side to get the same torsional spring rate.
I have several locking hubs with beat-up edges on them from folks knocking the cone washers loose that way. I much prefer to use a brass drift on the ends of the studs. This also mitigates any Brinnelling of the bearing races by the bearing rollers because it causes all of the rollers to bear the impact(s) rather than just a few. Doesn't mean that the Brinnelling won't or can't happen, just that the odds are more in my favor that it won't.
I always re-assemble with a scoshe of copper based anti-seize on the cylindrical and conic surfaces of the cone washers.
I have been experimenting with not using a axle flange gasket at all. Instead I am using Hylomar. So far, so good, but though I applied the Hylomar nearly a year ago I probably only have 500 miles on this as I am in the middle of an engine transplant. If you've ever used this stuff you'll know that it is not 'squirmy' like RTV. You'll also likely know to not wear clothes that you like while messing with it. It will not wash out, there are very few things that will act as a solvent to Hylomar.
My theory about the cone washers, and likely someone has thought of this before me, is that they convert Shear forces on the studs into Tensile forces on the studs by using the angle of the cone as a ramp. Once the studs stretch a tiny bit the 'containment' of the force conversion is lost and then the studs can bend. Going to a higher tensile strength stud material would be a good call. I've read of some in OZ going to M8 studs and six 8mm dowels. Though it appears to work, it is a bit of a kluge. Without cone washers in the system the studs or bolts must clamp the axle flange to the wheel hub with enough force to create a high level of friction between the axle flange and the wheel hub face, much the same way that flywheel bolts must create friction between the crank flange and the flywheel. Those bolts aren't in shear, they're tensilely loaded.
The OE design is much more elegant. If the 6mm studs no longer have enough tensile strength for the job, even when made from Unobtainium, then I'd look for some 8mm cone washers (or have them made) and studs.
I concur with IdahoDoug, axle shafts are designed to "wind-up" though I do not know about winding a full turn. That would be asking a lot. A problem when two axle shafts are different lengths is to make them have the same torsional spring rate. If the short side shaft is the same OD as the long side shaft, then they are not the same spring rate. I would then expect the short side to take much more of a beating than the long side. The short side's OD should be smaller than the long side to get the same torsional spring rate.
I have several locking hubs with beat-up edges on them from folks knocking the cone washers loose that way. I much prefer to use a brass drift on the ends of the studs. This also mitigates any Brinnelling of the bearing races by the bearing rollers because it causes all of the rollers to bear the impact(s) rather than just a few. Doesn't mean that the Brinnelling won't or can't happen, just that the odds are more in my favor that it won't.
I always re-assemble with a scoshe of copper based anti-seize on the cylindrical and conic surfaces of the cone washers.
I have been experimenting with not using a axle flange gasket at all. Instead I am using Hylomar. So far, so good, but though I applied the Hylomar nearly a year ago I probably only have 500 miles on this as I am in the middle of an engine transplant. If you've ever used this stuff you'll know that it is not 'squirmy' like RTV. You'll also likely know to not wear clothes that you like while messing with it. It will not wash out, there are very few things that will act as a solvent to Hylomar.
My theory about the cone washers, and likely someone has thought of this before me, is that they convert Shear forces on the studs into Tensile forces on the studs by using the angle of the cone as a ramp. Once the studs stretch a tiny bit the 'containment' of the force conversion is lost and then the studs can bend. Going to a higher tensile strength stud material would be a good call. I've read of some in OZ going to M8 studs and six 8mm dowels. Though it appears to work, it is a bit of a kluge. Without cone washers in the system the studs or bolts must clamp the axle flange to the wheel hub with enough force to create a high level of friction between the axle flange and the wheel hub face, much the same way that flywheel bolts must create friction between the crank flange and the flywheel. Those bolts aren't in shear, they're tensilely loaded.
The OE design is much more elegant. If the 6mm studs no longer have enough tensile strength for the job, even when made from Unobtainium, then I'd look for some 8mm cone washers (or have them made) and studs.
For untreated shafts, this would be true, but hardening processes allow differing shaft diameters to have nearly identical torsional rigidity.
ntsqd
technerd
Possible, but improbable for a range of production, QC, and calc'd fatigue life reasons.
Nice pics, love the tip on getting axles loose. Thanks!
TrickyT
Hate that mud...
Don't know how I missed January posts about Onur's PolyPro axle saga, but Doug's theory about increased shock due to reduced rotational "give" makes a lot of sense. I know Onur's reconfigured hubs and axles held up well during a recent wheeling trip.
As Cdan says (you'll need to search for exact quote), "Onur wheels like a blind man with a s**t eating grin on his face."
I can attest to the fact that he has a lot of fun doing it too.
As Cdan says (you'll need to search for exact quote), "Onur wheels like a blind man with a s**t eating grin on his face."
I can attest to the fact that he has a lot of fun doing it too.
