OM 613 3.2 CDI swap into 80FZJ (10 Viewers)

[Tugarin]

After years of lurking and dreaming about a good diesel engine came up with decision It will not be a fast project. Looking into three to four months.

OM 613, 3.2 CDI Engine

The reason I went with this engine, availability of parts, ease of reprogramming (I had seen several hardcore tuned). Local shops who already did this kind of swap and managed to eliminate all unnecessary EGR, trans, brakes, immobilizer and safety systems from ECU.

Literally they open the ECU and physically remove unneeded components turning the MB ECU into standalone unit.

Second engine is lighter, the torque is in range when the stock TLC transmission can handle it. Up to 580 NMs by remapping.

4250 max RPM, no need to re-gear.

Expectations: MB W210 and W211s are very fuel efficient. Most owners claim 8L/100KMs. I am expecting 10 to 12Ls per 100KMs for urban driving. And of course I need torque and it is really quiet than most of other diesels.

 

[bwakeling]

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[bloc]

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Gonna be a few more of these.. I think.

 

[CDmpc]

I have a eurospec OM617 in my driveway x2.....subd

 

[bloc]

Realistically what can you get one of these engines (including needed hardware.. ECU, longblock, mount legs, etc) for in the US?

 

[Tugarin]

Realistically what can you get one of these engines (including needed hardware.. ECU, longblock, mount legs, etc) for in the US?

I live in Kazakstan and halfcut of the front end of MB W210 I got for $2000 already imported. It's got everything we need for swap.

The issue is to clear the front axle, the oil sump and oil pump are needed from OM648 which is rear side sump unlike 613 which is front ended and the oil pump itself located 6cm lower than 648's. (pls. see attached pics, my 613 with modified sump from 648)

That part already done, shop guys are working right now on wiring to start it up on the table. After engine will start without body, we will start working on eliminating all unnecessary components from ECU. The most headache is not to separate the engine from it's body and make it running, but to eliminate the immobilizer. Otherwise the Merc's distinctive USB shaped chip key will have to stay. I want to get rid of it. Shop guys have experience in doing that, though they say it is a nightmare.

Engine fits perfectly into the 80's engine bay, and clears up a lot of space. Another thing no heavy mods to trans, brakes, steering, there is a plenty of room. No much of a headache to fit it in. Everything on the right place, exhaust on the passenger side, starter is on proper location, radiator hoses, vacuum lines for brakes, fuel supply lines and etc. pretty much on the same location as 1FZ.

My only concern was sump, oil pump and ability to fit. We solved that problem. Now only wiring, adapters for bellhousing, crankshaft and little bit of metal fabrication for new engine mounts.

BTW I am mating it with H151F manual, according to shop guys it would be a lot easier to mate it with automatic.

 

[Tugarin]

Just extra information if someone will decide to go my way (I will maximize the information I put out here) the difference between OM 613 and OM 648 are following.
1. Oil pump and sump
2. High pressure pump
3. Injectors
4. Most important, ECUs are different and 648 is hard to deal with
5. The 648 requires lift pump in the fuel tank
6. As 648 successor of 613 it is more expensive

Both never had manual trans, they were always equipped with auto trans.
The only family of 4 and 5 cyl were equipped with manuals and have relatively small clutch disks to handle the weight of bid SUVs as ours. The flywheel from 612 which is 5 cylinder counterpart of 613 has exact the same bolt pattern with 613 and 648, and the outer diameter of the clutch disk is only 240mm. Which is not acceptable in our case.

In the new cars, for convenience of drivers there are too many crap systems, those are starting from level of windshield fluid to sensors to control if the driver is fastened his belt seat. And it all goes to ECU. All this has to be cut physically from ECU. Otherwise anything from low oil level and service periods will put the engine into limping mode.

We are cutting all these at the roots, so engine even does not know that it had such sensors in the past. Therefore it will still contain three ECUs one is main, second so called driver for injectors and third is cold engine start controller which controls three systems these are glow plugs (they do operate not as in conventional diesels, controller turns them on and off dependent on engine temperature despite if it is running) water heater it is got literally 2 KWt water heater to aid to warm the cooling system up to operating temperatures for driver and passenger convenience, and third it is got independent heater running on diesel fuel to keep the engine warm during long periods of idling.

So it is not easy as it seems to make it work work as we need and eliminate everything we do not need.

 

[bloc]

Does your shop have any plans to commercialize the ECU mods? I understand this may be difficult from an international perspective but I guarantee there would be a healthy market for it.

 

[alia176]

I copied some info from the 4BT site. I'm curious about the Alternator being cooled by the engine coolant!! I'm thinking WTF !! I didn't think a TDi really needed that much amperage to operate.

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Brakes - the vacuum pump will be used from G-class as it has the higher efficiency. Bolt pattern is the same, just bigger pump.
Tacho - Mercedes ECUtakes readings from sensor counting the flywheelRPMs, so there is nothing to trouble with. We will take the readings from that sensor.
AC Compressor- this is under question mark, as we will be going only experimental. We will hook it up and see if mercedes compressor coupe up with Land Cruiser's cooling system.
Power Steering- also under question mark, we can only hook it up and test it. If not, we will take it from heaviest G-class.
EGR - will be removed and ECU re-programmed.
Alternator- 200Amp should be plenty. Watertight and cooled by engine cooling system.
Cooling - new shroud will be made using the toyota's viscous coupling and fan, we will be ditching the merc's coupling and fan.
Air filter- will be using original merc's - it will give us extra space under the hood.
Original Webasto from Merc along with cold countries package - will be installed as the Common Rail engine heat efficiency is very low. Thanks to merc's engineers it all comes in one package and controlled by merc's ECU.

 

[Tugarin]

I'm thinking WTF !! I didn't think a TDi really needed that much amperage to operate.

You're right TDI doesn't need much amperage. CDI needs it for heater booster. It is electric and consumes a lot.

Does your shop have any plans to commercialize the ECU mods? I understand this may be difficult from an international perspective but I guarantee there would be a healthy market for it.

I will talk to them see if they are willing to go international.

 

[bloc]

I copied some info from the 4BT site. I'm curious about the Alternator being cooled by the engine coolant!! I'm thinking WTF !! I didn't think a TDi really needed that much amperage to operate.


Alternator- 200Amp should be plenty. Watertight and cooled by engine cooling system.

I didn't know Benz was doing water cooled alternators but BMW has been for years on their bigger engines.

And considering this engine has glow plugs for the combustion chambers as well as for the cooling system, a 200A alternator isn't that hard to believe. My 2.0L TDI has a 140Amp unit stock with no cooling system heaters.

 

[Tugarin]

Does your shop have any plans to commercialize the ECU mods? I understand this may be difficult from an international perspective but I guarantee there would be a healthy market for it.

There are European companies who does the standalone units, if I would have a bigger budged I would go with OM 642 and standalone custom ECU.

This company makes for OM 642
Specialist Components - Engineering :: Diesel Engine Management

3 liter 640 NM in stock - I am sure it is a beast. I do not now the price nor availability of their product.

Added: I called SC company - they are going to give a price for standalone unit for OM 613, I kind of curious myself.

 

[bloc]

I also saw mention of a bosch Motorsport ecu that can stand alone but inferred that it is extremely expensive.

Honestly what has the most interest from me would be an OM648.. Though I think the task of separating it from other modules will be even more difficult.

 

[Tugarin]

Honestly what has the most interest from me would be an OM648..

What I have heard from shop guys, 648 is more complicated as it has piezoelectric injectors and EGR is the most difficult part. And I would not want to have lift pump in the tank. Manipulations with such engine are not worth of extra 30Hp and 50NMs

 

[Dragos80]

I've been waiting for this thread for a long time. I don;t know how I missed it so far.

Somebody had to ask... How are you going to deal with the bell housing?

 

[Tugarin]

I also saw mention of a bosch Motorsport ecu that can stand alone but inferred that it is extremely expensive.

OK, received response from company who actually did the ECU for 613. This is their vid



RV engineering aka Adaptronic.nl

The price for ECU 3300 Euros ex VAT plus shipment

 

[Dragos80]

You can always pay more...
Mercedes 3.0 v6 om642 Ecu Information | Diesel Ecu Packages | Simtek UK BodyLogic Control Systems, Diesel Engine Management, Epas, Indicator and Wiper Contro | Simtek UK

 

[speyrod]

I would love it, would love the OM648 in my wifes e320cdi more. Keep us informed on your progress.

 

[Tugarin]

Somebody had to ask... How are you going to deal with the bell housing?

Similar to what 4x4 Labs doing. Adapter plate to the bellhousing and adapter for the crankshaft, where original TLC's flywheel will be bolted. We are going to keep the merc's flexplate (it will keep the original starter, crankshaft RPM counter and position sensors in place.

613 is 16 cm shorter than 1FZ so we will have plenty of space to fit the plate. We will be playing with adapter plate to move the engine back and forth, it will allow us not to hassle with trans. Direct bolt on and everything behind the TLC's flywheel will stay stock. Engine RPMs allow not to re-gear, swapping another gearbox neither putting big tires.

Another question which we are going to find out if 1FZ-Z's exhaust will handle the turbo exhaust. I am not too keen to spend extra money if it will coupes with it, if not it will be custom made 3 inch all the way to the end straight piping with merc's flame depressor only. No muffler needed

I watch few of 1FZ-F/E swaps for 1HD-T/FT they all faced problems of petrol engine exhaust choking the diesel engine. They all replaced to the stock diesel exhausts or made custom.

 

[Tugarin]

I have received also information from adaptronic, they are ready to make plug and play, no BS including EGR and other, just straight engine control.

Info they requested is how it needs to be wired to OEM harness, i.e. they can connect it modern auto trans, dashboard and etc. Sounds very attractive. And 642/648 does not seem to be impossible swap. With no urea, EGR - will be a sweet engine to have.

Addition: It is not good, just exchanged few e-mails with that Adaptec company. Not good, their standalone ECU completely based on their mainframe and software. Support is not cheap either. 800 euros just for starters. If something fails in middle of nowhere - only computer with unique software can help, and if there any failure to ECU that's end of the engine.

So best to go with stock ECU and tear it to core so in any Merc's workshop they can connect and troubleshoot, replace and re-program.