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Oil pan arch seal

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by alia176, Mar 8, 2006.

  1. alia176

    alia176 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    8,386
    Location:
    Tijeras, NM
    Oil pan arch seal project

    I tackled re-sealing the famous arch seal this weekend. This project is a little involved but fairly straight forward. While I had the engine raised, I took the opportunity to replace the motor mounts. I'm an ameteur so I'm sure there're more efficient ways to do this! I'd say this to be :banana: :banana: job.

    It went something like this:
    - wash the underside of your vehicle thoroughly at a car was. You'll thank yourself later!
    - park on top of 4x4 or 6x6 wood or a set of ramps. Just make sure that you can still reach everything w/o tiring yourself
    - wear safety glasses to prevent oil & crud going into your eye :crybaby:
    - drain engine oil
    - remove the oil filter (facilitates access to motor mounts)
    - remove hood and mark where the brackets went (only if you're using an overhead hoist to pull up on the engine)
    - remove the radiator cooling fan from the water pump and push it aside
    - raise the engine as much as possible. Keep a close eye on the radiator fan and radiator shroud coming into contact with each other. An overhead hoist stays out of your work area the best.
    - remove the two nuts per motor mount.
    - remove dip stick holder.
    - Remove the two bolts that attach to the a/c compressor main bracket
    - remove two connectors (one is oil low level, the other one is for a sensor pickup)
    - remove the front sway bar completely. You can keep it in there but just ain't worth aggravation or head bonking!
    - remove the lowest (smaller) oil pan. The longer you let the oil drain, the less mess for later!
    - remove LOTS of bolts and four nuts from the higher oil pan. Make careful note of what bolts go where. I used a old shipping box to place the bolts as they came out of the engine. There are several lengths/sizes/grades of bolts.
    - make sure to remove the four bolts that are INSIDE the large oil pan. :mad:
    - work the FIPG loose by working the larger oil pan. This will take some elbow grease and maybe some heat from a propate/butane torch. Resist the urge to use a chiesel/screwdriver/pry bar to separate.
    - work the large oil pan out while paying close attention to the oil pickup screen.
    - Place the large oil pan such that the oil pickup screen isn't distrubed.
    - clean off the old sealant on both surfaces.
    - Apply new sealant or FIPG and wait for it to become less tacky. If it's too tacky, then you'll smear as you install the large oil pan.
    - Reverse the above steps for installation
    - Clean off old FIPG from the smaller oil pan. There're grooves in this oil pan that needs to be cleaned out well before the new FIPG is applied.
    -Install the smaller oil pan
    -Add oil, filter, tighten motor mounts, install fan, hood, etc.

    Gotchas to avoid:
    -Protect the oil pickup screen
    -while cleaning old FIPG, be sure to pick up bits and pieces from the large oil pan as you're working. I used a shop vac.
    -keep the dust level down while everything exposed. Don't sweep the shop floor!
    -have assitance for hood removal. It's not heavy but can be unwieldy!
    -I try not to use air tools to remove the bolts, don't want a broken bolt head here!
    -have LOTS of clean rags. This is not the place to be reusing old, dusty rags.
    -pay close attention to the torque values of the various bolts. Don't confuse IN-LBS with FT-LBS numbers in the FSM.
    :beer:

    Pics to follow. Let me know if anything seems unclear to you!

    Ali

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 14, 2011
  2. alia176

    alia176 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    8,386
    Location:
    Tijeras, NM
    Close up views of the leaky areas of the pan.

    Notice how I'm resting the foreward end of the oil pan on 2x4s to protect the oil pickup screen.

    Attached Files:

  3. Beowulf

    Beowulf New Member

    Thanks Ali, nice write-up.

    Did you have a motor mount break?

    -B-
  4. alia176

    alia176 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    8,386
    Location:
    Tijeras, NM
    Thanks.

    No, the mounts are intact However, Dan and I noticed that the engine seems to rotate more than normal upon starting and power braking. I'm also chasing another issue and that is the movement of my Transmission shift lever under load. The tranny *maybe* is moving fore/aft.

    Upon visual inspection, both mounts seem fine but I bet the driver side is softer. At least I hope so anyway :mad:

    This was a classic *while I'm in there...* move!

    Ali
  5. LX_TREME

    LX_TREME New Member

    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    Pasadena, CA
    Nice, Im going to do exact same thing within 3 weeks from now.When you mention replace the engine mounts.How many are they? Also do you have part # for it? Got more pics?
  6. alia176

    alia176 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    8,386
    Location:
    Tijeras, NM
    there are two motor mounts. Have Dan quote the price/pn info. I can't remember what I paid since i bought them long time ago. I tend to store up on parts and then do a big project. Unfortunately, I tend to lose smaller parts this way :doh:

    I don't have any pics of the motor mount project but it went somethig like this:

    - have an assistant
    - remove motor mount nuts (four total).
    - remove radiator fan and push it aside
    - loosen four bolts per motor motor mount brackets x 2. On the driver side, removal of the oil filter will improve access to the bolts
    - raise engine
    - start on the passenger side. One person moves the engine from side to side while another person is playing with the motor mount from underneath. This alone took about an hour or so! Install new motor mount.
    - driver side - remove the tranny oil dipstick bracket (push it aside )so that you can back out one of the four bolts out of the block.
    - move the engine to the driver side while the assistant works the motor mount out. Install new motor mount.
    -tighten the motor mount to engine bracket nuts (four total)
    -Torque everything to spec.

    :beer:
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2006
  7. terry.mc

    terry.mc Regular Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Denver
    GAACK.

    I might just buy a lower miles cruiser :D

    Nice writeup, thanks for taking the time to document it for the rest of us.
  8. LX_TREME

    LX_TREME New Member

    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    Pasadena, CA
    Well i just made quick phone call to my guys (local Toyota parts) now according to what they said it would be better if i also replace the trans mounts? so 3 totals?
    - 2 engine mounts and the part # 12361-17011 -$ not cheap.
    - 1 trans mounts also the part # 12371-66030 -$ more than you thought.
    (P.S)- sorry i dont quote/ post the parts price here.

    So is that right?
  9. alia176

    alia176 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    8,386
    Location:
    Tijeras, NM
    I don't know if the p/n s are right but you do need three total for the vehicle.
  10. alia176

    alia176 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    8,386
    Location:
    Tijeras, NM
    Yes, you can do that but she's gonna be a high mileage cruiser eventually and guess what? :D

    This is a routine PM that needs to be done just like the head gasket r/r. Unless you can stand to see your 80 leak oil for the rest of her life!

    Ali
  11. landtoy80

    landtoy80 New Member

    Messages:
    4,936
    Location:
    West Slope Colorado
    WOW, that looks like a lot of work!
    I am surely glad that the RotellaT Syn 5w40 somehow sealed up my arch pan leak, "knock on fake wood dash :D "

  12. Rookie2

    Rookie2 New Member

    Messages:
    2,863
    Location:
    Knoxville
    What's that hoist setup.. is that steel beam in your garage?
  13. Riad

    Riad SILVER Star

    Messages:
    1,827
    Location:
    Charles Town, WV
    Nice work Ali. So you raised the Engine to replace the motor mounts or that is required to change the seal as well? How does the Arch seal look like? Is it a RTV type material or a gasket? Also is it required to take out the #2/small oil pan to do this job?


    Thanks
  14. alia176

    alia176 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    8,386
    Location:
    Tijeras, NM
    Funny you mention that...I looked around after completing the job and not one case of Rotella. I have all sorts of syn 5w30. Off to Wally world I went! :D
  15. Beowulf

    Beowulf New Member

    I'll try to answer for Ali. You must remove the lower oil pan before you can remove the upper oil pan. You must raise the engine slightly to enable removal of the upper oil pan.

    C-Dan had to remove the upper oil pan before he could remove the front timing chain cover and therefore had to do all of the steps in Ali's post; plus some.

    -B-
  16. Rookie2

    Rookie2 New Member

    Messages:
    2,863
    Location:
    Knoxville
    Yes

    ?? incomplete sentence??

    Formed in Place Gasket (FIPG) sealer on both the upper and lower oil pans.

    He's sealing the upper pan arch, so both pans have to come out. There are some hidden bolts under the lower pan, that you have to get to in order to take the upper pan out, so you couldn't just pull them as a unit.

    :beer:
    Rookie2
  17. Riad

    Riad SILVER Star

    Messages:
    1,827
    Location:
    Charles Town, WV
    Thank you Rookie2. So that's what FIPG stands for :D. I wanted to see what this FIPG looks like is.

    Thanks
  18. Rookie2

    Rookie2 New Member

    Messages:
    2,863
    Location:
    Knoxville
    It looks a lot like 3M weather striping adhesive. Comes in a toothpaste like tube. You just squeeze it on, and it sets up in about 15 minutes, cures within 24 hours.

    :beer:
    Rookie2
  19. lowtops

    lowtops New Member

    Messages:
    342
    Location:
    Concord, NC
    alia176,
    Great write-up on a job I have been putting off for some time. My driveway is starting to look pretty bad so I plan to do this soon.

    I have been thinking this whole project over and have a question. Would it be feasible to just drop the front axle to remove the pan instead of unbolting the motor mounts? I plan on installing a lift in the near future and this would be a perfect way to kill two birds with one stone.
  20. Rookie2

    Rookie2 New Member

    Messages:
    2,863
    Location:
    Knoxville
    Several comments on this, and in addition a search would yeild others experiences with this item as well.

    First off: the 20 plus nicely bulletized items listed above don't do this job justice. It's a PITA. If you've got a "seep" with little to no drip accumulating on the driveway, you're going to be kicking yourself in butt for messing with this once your asses and elbows deep into it.

    Second: There's no guarentees it's the pan arch, although percentages have shown it to be the most common out of it vs. rear main seal. I found it really hard to tell by doing the mirror investigation.

    Now to answer your question: Everybody that's done this (including C-Dan) has had to raise the motor some to get the pan out. When I did mine, I put the frame up on 3 tons jacks on a very high setting, and dropped the axle down onto 3 ton jacks on the lowest setting, then removed the DS sway bar bracket, and that was enough to get it to clear (this took me about 6 hours to find the right combination). I did not need to remove the fan and fan clutch, although it's probably not a bad idea. Loosening the fan shroud, and jacking the motor about a 1" to 1 1/2" is enough (mine started lifting the whole front end at this point, I'm assuming the bell housing was engaging the body so there is a limit to the amount you can lift the motor). If you've using a standard engine hoist, there's no need to remove the hood.


    :beer:
    Rookie2

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