Never done a timing chain, how many hours? (1 Viewer)

[beatdown83fj60]

I'm hearing what I'm pretty sure might be my timing chain beginning to slap, and I know the engine hasn't had one since it had around 70k miles on it so I think I'm going to do it anyway. I'm not a terrible mechanic, I worked in a full service auto repair/welding shop for about 2 years and saw a lot there, and I'm no stranger to the 22r, I've just never dug that far into one. How many hours of work can I expect this to realistically take me if I have an FSM by my side? Also another question real quick, check my parts list and make sure I'm not missing anything.

Timing chain kit (should I go dual chains?)
Head Gasket kit
Valve cover gasket and wierd little half moon gaskets
Intake and Exhaust manifold gaskets (probably go header at the same time, mines cracked)

Im just looking for any suprises I may encounter so I can get it done over the weekend and maybe be to work on monday without hitchhiking . Should I have the head surfaced at all? The truck runs good but this is something I'd really like to get done before it's too late :shotts: .

Also what about special tools, I have a decent amount of wrenches, sockets, breaker bar, etc. but will I need any special tools? Im also a little short on large deep sockets ( 16mm and up ). Thanks in advance for any advice. If I can do it cost effectively I may rebuild the head as well and get it shaved down a little bit but that depends on how the machine work is going to hit my wallet.

Some history, 1984 4Runner, 189k or so with one timing chain done in it's lifetime, doesn't leak a drop of oil, doesn't use any coolant to speak of, and runs good, but piece of mind is good and I don't want to lose that timing chain.

 

[beatdown83fj60]

Well, after reading the post below this one lol, I realize I should buy new headbolts. Looks like I'll be buying a good torque wrench too because I've been needing one for a while. Any torque wrench reccomendations that don't cost as much as snap on but still work?

 

[KLF]

You do not need to pull the head to do a timing chain job. Drop the pan. You should anyway, just to get the little chunks of plastic guide out of there. Just be careful when peeling the timing cover off the sliver of the HG, and you'll be fine.

If you do decide to do the HG, leave the intake & exhaust manifolds attached. Much easier. Ya, it's heavier to lift off. Get a friend to help.

If you detach the exhaust manifold and decide to do a header, do yourself a favor and Helicoil all the exhaust stud holes. It really SUCKS to put everything back together and have that very back hole strip out.

I wouldn't bother with the double-row chain, but I would definitely get the metal guides, at least the single one that engnbldr sells. Better yet, get the set that Tim @ DOA sells. Beefy!

 

[amgraham]

Yeah, I just did this on my 88 pickup a few weeks ago. I used the DOA kit because I got it at a swap meet. It is beefy (like the other guy said, definitely get metal guides.. Double row chain is unnecessary though). I did mine without pulling the head but I kinda wish I had afterwards since it's hard to get everything sealed up right while wedging that timing cover back in there.

I say if you just do the chain without pulling the head you should be able to get it done in a weekend. I maybe spent 8 hours on mine hitting it here and there in the evenings after work. I used this writeup and it proved invaluable:
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/EngineMods/TimingChain.shtml

Only other things I would recommend doing would be the oil and water pumps. You'll be right there and it's pretty cheap insurance. Oh, and make sure you line up your timing marks before you pull the chain and triple check them when you put it back on. Also, do yourself a favor and have a good tube of silicone onhand because some of the gaskets didn't fit all that well for me (plus you need it to seal the top and bottom of the timing cover).

 

[nuclearlemon]

i was really surprised at how easy it was. i didn't pull the pan or the head since the chain was intact and i didn't care about gasket chunks since it was a $250 truck.

plan on a full day because you'll be double checking yourself.

don't forget the bolts on the back of teh cover that you can't see and the one head bolt under the valve cover and that will help shave time.

 

[Mark W]

Chilton's flat rate book calls it about a 10 hour job. Skill level "B"


Mark...

 

[beatdown83fj60]

Ok sounds like I should be able to do it fine over the course of a weekend. I think I'll probably try to take a friday off early and get it atleast torn all the way down on Friday night. That way I can get to it and whip it out on a long saturday.

 

[WristPin]

you should remove your pan. to get all the borken guide peices out.
dont use a gasket there, use the Toyota FIPK sealant. it is the best sealant on the market.

you dont need to replace the valve cover and half moon gaskets. they are reusable.

buy a craftsman tourque wrench for 70 bucks. the cam sproket bolt torque is 58 ftlbs. chain dampener is 16 ftlbs. crankshaft pulley is 116 ftlbs. after you are done torquing, return the setting on the wrench to zero ftlbs.

i wouldnt advise a new oil pump, unless your is not working right. why? cause i have seen enough AFTMKT ones fail after installation.
the water pump is a good idea, only if you buy OEM. some AFTMKT ones are noisy, and its not much more to go OEM.

under the camshaft gear is a HIDDEN bolt. remove that to get the cover off.

unbolt the cam pulley first, before the crank pulley. use a 17mm socket on the cam bolt, and a 19mm on the crank bolt. hold the crank while you loosen the cam. but before completly loosening that bolt, use your starter to loosen the crank bolt next.

keep your P/S pump mounted to the bracket. there are 4 14mm socket bolts that mount on the driver side of the head, and one of them has a ground wire that bolts with one that joins the alternator harness. remove your distributor to gain easy acess to these 4 bolts. under the pump there a 2 14mm socket bolts on the front and back of the pump. and finally one 14mm socket bolt on the end of the bracket that bolts to the front passenger side of the head. lift that whole assembly out of the way.

after setting your #1 cylinder to TDC, using the mark on the cam gear and loosness of the intake and exhaust valves as guides, scribe the body of the distributor and head a straight line. this will be helpful for repositioning it during installation.

keep track of alll the bolts that come out of the cover. some are different lengths. i am so used to it now, i know where they all go. but what i used to do is take a peice of cardboard, like a pizza box, and push each bolt thru the box, while drawing a picture of the bolt hole and shape of the cover on the box. this makes it sooo easy to reinstall.

you dont need to remove the head, just like KLF said.

all you need is a phillips screwdriver, 19mm, 17mm, 14mm, 12mm sockets two 10mm wrenches for removing the fan, 12 and 14mm wrenches. and the torque wrench. a crankshat pulley will be helpful.

you need to drain and remove the radiator. you dont have to pull the shroud off. it will clear the fan.

either mark the belts or statigicly place them, as each belt is a different length.

the first time i got mine done it took me 10 hours of checking and rechecking. plus i removed more stuff than nessicary. now i am down to under six hours on a solid axle truck.

 

[WristPin]

Chilton's flat rate book calls it about a 10 hour job. Skill level "B"


Mark...

but is that for a IFS or solid axle truck?
cause the diff in a IFS truck has to come down to get the pan off.

 

[Mark W]

He has an '84. That's the quote for an '84

IIRC dropping the pan is not part of the FSM procedure. IMHO it is not really needed either. The plastic pieces are too big to pass through the oil pump pickup and they are not hard/strong enough to hurt anything in there.


Mark...

 

[amgraham]

Yeah, I see what you mean about the oil pump. This pickup was not maintained at all so I just went ahead and replaced all that stuff so I didn't have to pull it down again till I build another motor for it.

I also did not pull the pan (IFS - I'm too lazy and I really don't think this particular motor's long for this world anyway) but I only had one piece missing from one of the guides so i don't think it will cause problems. Just make sure when you get the cover off you stuff a rag down in the opening of the oil pan so you don't get old gasket pieces down in there.

One other thing.. Make sure you clean up the mounting surfaces for the coolant tubes well that bolt to the back of the cover. I had one that leaked a little after I got it back together and I had to pull the P/S pump back off and tighten it down some more.

 

[Red_Chili]

My buddy bought a truck needing motor work. The PO replaced the timing chain but didn't pull the pan. There were VERY FINE little chunks of plastic all over the pan. Some were sucked into the pickup.

Pull it.

Also RE the headgasket, with an older truck IMHO you are missing an opportunity to replace a part that may very well be nearing the end of its service life. I had a HG fail at 149K and the block deck corroded as a result. Had the PO replaced the timing chain and HG when he should have, that motor would have continued to be golden.

YMMV.

 

[beatdown83fj60]

Lot's of sound advice, thank you very much everyone.

 

[LeftCoast]

Nice detail, great post! Especially liked the oil pump advice...

you should remove your pan. to get all the borken guide peices out.
dont use a gasket there, use the Toyota FIPK sealant. it is the best sealant on the market.

you dont need to replace the valve cover and half moon gaskets. they are reusable.

buy a craftsman tourque wrench for 70 bucks. the cam sproket bolt torque is 58 ftlbs. chain dampener is 16 ftlbs. crankshaft pulley is 116 ftlbs. after you are done torquing, return the setting on the wrench to zero ftlbs.

i wouldnt advise a new oil pump, unless your is not working right. why? cause i have seen enough AFTMKT ones fail after installation.
the water pump is a good idea, only if you buy OEM. some AFTMKT ones are noisy, and its not much more to go OEM.

under the camshaft gear is a HIDDEN bolt. remove that to get the cover off.

unbolt the cam pulley first, before the crank pulley. use a 17mm socket on the cam bolt, and a 19mm on the crank bolt. hold the crank while you loosen the cam. but before completly loosening that bolt, use your starter to loosen the crank bolt next.

keep your P/S pump mounted to the bracket. there are 4 14mm socket bolts that mount on the driver side of the head, and one of them has a ground wire that bolts with one that joins the alternator harness. remove your distributor to gain easy acess to these 4 bolts. under the pump there a 2 14mm socket bolts on the front and back of the pump. and finally one 14mm socket bolt on the end of the bracket that bolts to the front passenger side of the head. lift that whole assembly out of the way.

after setting your #1 cylinder to TDC, using the mark on the cam gear and loosness of the intake and exhaust valves as guides, scribe the body of the distributor and head a straight line. this will be helpful for repositioning it during installation.

keep track of alll the bolts that come out of the cover. some are different lengths. i am so used to it now, i know where they all go. but what i used to do is take a peice of cardboard, like a pizza box, and push each bolt thru the box, while drawing a picture of the bolt hole and shape of the cover on the box. this makes it sooo easy to reinstall.

you dont need to remove the head, just like KLF said.

all you need is a phillips screwdriver, 19mm, 17mm, 14mm, 12mm sockets two 10mm wrenches for removing the fan, 12 and 14mm wrenches. and the torque wrench. a crankshat pulley will be helpful.

you need to drain and remove the radiator. you dont have to pull the shroud off. it will clear the fan.

either mark the belts or statigicly place them, as each belt is a different length.

the first time i got mine done it took me 10 hours of checking and rechecking. plus i removed more stuff than nessicary. now i am down to under six hours on a solid axle truck.

 

[BeaterToyota]

Timing chain kit (should I go dual chains?)
Head Gasket kit
Valve cover gasket and wierd little half moon gaskets
Intake and Exhaust manifold gaskets (probably go header at the same time, mines cracked)

Don't know if you're done yet, or if you have bought parts yet, but i will recommend www.engnbldr.com for all the parts you need.

I used their timing chain kit (with metal guides) about 4 years ago and it was great. Cheap, complete, but quality parts.

I'm currently doing a head gasket replacement, again using engnbldr's parts. The gasket kit includes ALL of the little gaskets for the manifolds, valve cover, etc., etc., and it includes new head bolts. All for $60. Search around the internet and you'll find nothing but good posts about their parts.

(And no, I am in no way affiliated with them)

 

[beatdown83fj60]

I took my truck to a local Toyota specialist (in fact most of the work they do is on 4x4s, crawlers, and cruisers) and they said it should be fine for a while but look into doing it in the next 6 months to a year. They did an entire look over and drive and said that it wasn't in bad mechanical condition at all for being such a rust bucket. I'm looking at engnbldr.com for the parts. Seems reasonable and over the years I don't think I've heard one bad thing about him.

And now to do my little happy dance

This weekend I traded the trans/tcase out of my FJ60 for a brand new set of 35 inch MTR's. I also got ahold of 2 welded 4:10 diffs for 80 bucks. Not a bad score IMO. I had an offer for an aussie locker for $200 bucks but not sure if I can swing the cash right now. Getting closer though! I hope to have this truck atleast trailable before this summer is over. Right now it's not liking my favorite Colorado trails on weak 31's, sagging stock suspension, and open diffs. I think I'm going to get it in the air, get the 35's under it, install my IFS rear end with welded diff, vented rotor swap, and hopefully crossover steering here in the next month or two at most. Fingers crossing as we speak. Im toying with the idea of using my rear FJ60 spring packs with buggy springs in the back and seeing what happens.

 

[Bob_Garrett]

I'd be VERY cautious about postponing the timing chain repair. If the guides are broken, then the noise you're hearing is the chain hitting the water jacket. It will eventually wear through and when (not if) it does, you'll be stranded and likely in for a much more costly repair. While it does take some time for this to happen after the guides break, the unknown for you is whether any damage occured prior to the fix at 70k.

35s with 4.10s.... if you're driving it to the trails, don't plan on getting there real fast. My 22r struggled with 33s here in the flatlands of the Midwest.

 

[beatdown83fj60]

I know it's going to be one slow dog, I didn't like my 22re in my '80 with 5:29's but hey, I'm trying to be cheaper than dirt here and get a halfway useable crawler built for two grand including the truck, so far I'm almost there, just gotta save for crossover here. Until then I'll be traveling with a couple J-arms and birfs... I do still plan on getting to the timing chain thing asap though. Not something to screw around with.

 

[tntoyota]

just to get the little chunks of plastic guide out of there. Just be careful when peeling the timing cover off the sliver of the HG, and you'll be fine.

If you do decide to do the HG, leave the intake & exhaust manifolds attached. Much easier. Ya, it's heavier to lift off. Get a friend to help.

an If you detach the exhaust manifold d decide to do a header, do yourself a favor and Helicoil all the exhaust stud holes. It really SUCKS to put everything back together and have that very back hole strip out.

I wouldn't bother with the double-row chain, but I would definitely get the metal guides, at least the single one that engnbldr sells. Better yet, get the set that Tim @ DOA sells. Beefy!

All that work and you'd have a lot of room to play with THE ENGINE OUT of the bay.

I have 20R guieds (Both, steel) in MY 22RET chain saw file the 1, one hole on top tension side, if 84 TC cover should fit duel row behind it no mods. (just sprockets, chain, tensioner, OP drive gear)

84, never maintained hows the clutch? If you know its brand new.........

The rear main seal?.........again if its out you can see (get to know) every part of the motor.

i was really surprised at how easy it was. i didn't pull the pan or the head since the chain was intact and i didn't care about gasket chunks since it was a $250 truck.

plan on a full day because you'll be double checking yourself.

don't forget the bolts on the back of teh cover that you can't see and the one head bolt under the valve cover and that will help shave time.

Again more room if out, can see the whole thing, no suprizes.

He has an '84. That's the quote for an '84

IIRC dropping the pan is not part of the FSM procedure. IMHO it is not really needed either. The plastic pieces are too big to pass through the oil pump pickup and they are not hard/strong enough to hurt anything in there.


Mark...

DO NOT HEED THIS (sorry Mark) you, YOU, do NOT know how BIG or how many small pieces the guieds are in, the oil acts like a suction cup once it suckes it to the screen its there until.....................starves the engine of oil over time, pull it. (the pan)

My buddy bought a truck needing motor work. The PO replaced the timing chain but didn't pull the pan. There were VERY FINE little chunks of plastic all over the pan. Some were sucked into the pickup.

Pull it.

Also RE the headgasket, with an older truck IMHO you are missing an opportunity to replace a part that may very well be nearing the end of its service life. I had a HG fail at 149K and the block deck corroded as a result. Had the PO replaced the timing chain and HG when he should have, that motor would have continued to be golden.

YMMV.

Long term preventitive maintenence, get to know youre engine, SEE all there is to see, no hiden bolt "use the force, Luke" kinda sh......clutch, rear main, room to work, REwork the head (I get mine done for $100, get head set, FelPro, the best one, most$$)


I'd pull the motor,


Another way of looking at it is LABOR: $900-$1,000 alone if a mechanic does it.

All the parts, the new lease on life youre giving it, $350?....$400?


Yes, this method will take longer.


* If HG

So, youve pulled all the hoses, the exhoust, the fuel, valve cover, distributor, FP lobe from cam, distributor gear, head bolts, cam rocker arm a$$y, pulled all the hot air tubes, water bypass (?, thinking EFI) rear two bolts that strap down tubes that you can not see, TC cover bolt, droped oil pan, remove timing cover, now youre trying to work on the engine in a...............confined location, remove TC parts, clean block, REinstal in reverse order in.............a confined location


and you still got the same clutch, rear main.

 

[beatdown83fj60]

Actually I've been contemplating that. I will need a new clutch somewhat soon, it's still got good pedal but those brand new 35's are going to put a quick end to that. I was thinking of going centerforce just because of how much abuse it's going to get. I will probably pull the engine when I do the clutch because they will be separated anyway. I've had 2 22rs out in my life but haven't ever needed to work on one lol. I only had them pulled for an engine swap. The main seal is good or atleast I think, this truck hasn't leaked one drop of oil since I bought it. I think for the most part it's been taken care of pretty well, and my mechanics inspection came back good. The guy said "well it's a rusty old beat up truck, but it runs great." With that said Ive got an FSM on the way right now, and will be collecting parts to do the chain, hg, pan gasket, etc. And yes, when I do the clutch I will replace the main seal even if it's not leaking, Im there.