Loud KNOCKING / RATTLING at cold start up? Any ideas?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by Skillet, Feb 10, 2007.

  1. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    Second time it has happened....

    Go out in the morning, start the beast up and right at cold start up, she really knocks and rattles for about 10 seconds and then smoothes out and runs fine...:confused:


    NEVER done this before and it has happened twice in two weeks.

    This does not sound like an HG problem but more like a rod or something?

    Could it be the starter making all that noise? It was replaced about 40K ago.

    HELP, almighty mudders!

    Jeb

    EDIT: UPDATE: Just went out after it idled for about 5 minutes to warm up. There is very noticeable rattling/knocking, yet quieter than the start up noise, coming from somewhere around the front of the engine from inside from what I can tell.

    Definitly not the starter.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2007
  2. TiredIronGRB

    TiredIronGRB

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    Probably the main bearings rattling, put a quart of Lucas oil treatment in it and it will be fine.
  3. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    Why would it just magically start doing that?

    Seems like the distributor housing got rather hot in that short time as well. I noticed when I was reaching down to take the tensioner off to eliminate that as a cause.

    Could the oil distribution be compromised for some reason?
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2007
  4. wfd175

    wfd175

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    I was talking with local Toyota service manager a few years ago and asked him about the LC engine and what he has noticed wearing out first and what are the symptoms.

    In my town there are 8 FZJ's still on the street, and I see them at the dealer for service when I drive by on the way to work. Over the past few years, I see them more often during snow storms, but the local dealer does service them all. Including mine when I don't have time to do the scheduled service.

    His experience has been with timing chains wearing out. He said that you will notice a rattling and slight engine clunking at startup, and when you shut the motor off you will hear the rattle as the motor winds down when the ignition is shut off. Does this describe your problem?

    Good luck. I hope your problem isn't major.
  5. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    I shut it down and tinkered around the house a bit. Started it back up and NO rattle at all?

    WTF? :confused:
  6. RavenTai

    RavenTai

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    read up on broken chain slippers, happens on the early 1FZ, might be it.
  7. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    Okay, I read up on that.

    Sounds plausible.

    Just very unnerving that it happened all of a sudden with no changes made in the engine maintainence.

    Why would that be? I have never ever had a rattle at startup before?
  8. Make sure it's not something simple like exhaust parts that rattle when cold before expanding with heat.
  9. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    **** breaks, that's what keeps guys like me employed.
  10. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    Thanks, that helps a ton. If I were closer I would surely take it to you...

    If it is broke, it is broke. I am not whining.

    Just trying to figure out wtf it is so I don't do more damage by driving it.
  11. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Moderator

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    Could just the the cold. We had near zero temps for a couple weeks and my truck developed a couple new noises. Now that it's warmed up a little, they've gone away.

    And yes, my fingers are crossed. :flipoff2:

  12. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Just trying to help you focus. No sense reasoning why something happened, it just did and now you need to figure out what happened.

    I think your first instinct to rule out the belts and tensioners is a good place to start.

    The chain slipper isn't all that common but a real possibility. Some have used a garden hose held up to their ear to help focus in on where the sound is coming from. Just be careful when groping around a running engine, you don't need to loose an appendage.
  13. Ting

    Ting

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    Jeb - What's your mileage on it?
  14. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    Thanks for the input.

    I have heard of this "hose" approach. Someone even wrote about driving down the road with the thing duct taped to the engine and running it into the cab for driving noise ID. :eek:

    May have to tackle that.

    If it is the slipper, will it chew **** up in there while driving?

    It did get kinda cold here, not that bad, maybe 25 F. at the lowest. I don't think that could possibly be the cause because a lot of you guys are keeping these things in sub zero weather.

    Think I will head out and see what happens if I start it now...
  15. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    Just started that bitch up after it sat there for 6 hours. Nothing.

    Sounds perfect...

    What evil lurks in my 80? :mad:
  16. NaterGator

    NaterGator On Gilligan's Island SILVER Star

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    Cdan has put a hex on you. Beg for mercy, because there is no hope.
  17. DuManchu

    DuManchu

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    Mine is the same way, when the temps are 10F and below I think my Cruiser is starting to turn into a piece of crap, but above that (and once warmed up) all the noises go away.
  18. Brian894X4

    Brian894X4

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    I'm brand new to the 80s, since I just bought mine, but if the 1FZ is anything like the 22RE I'm far more familier with, the upper valve train, timing chain, gears, distributor gear, etc, are the last thing to get oil from the oil pump after the engine has started up. They're high up on the motor away from the pump and are in low pressure areas where oil is basically flung onto the parts.

    If it's been sitting and all the oil up top has drained down below, especially overnight or over a period of several days, and either something slows the oil from getting to the top or you have warn timing chain parts, then you'll hear a rattling until the oil reaches up top.

    A couple things to consider. If it's cold, the oil might not flow as well on initital start up when it's warm, so it will be slower to reach the top of the motor. If the oil filter doesn't have an anti-drainback valve, the oil filter will have to fill up with oil, before the top of the motor gets its supply. It's not uncommon to hear a rattle for a few seconds on many engines, after doing an oil change and putting a dry oil filter on, for example.

    I don't know about the 1FZ. It doesn't sound like there's any common timing chain issues, but on the 22RE, the chains stretch out over time and so on higher mileage engines with bad chains, they make noise everytime on start up, then quite down. Eventually, the chains break. But that's on a completely different motor and while I'm still learning, it seems like the chain on the 1FZ usually lasts the life of the motor.

    If it were me, I'd make sure I'm using an anti-drainback filter and the proper oil visc for the temps you're seeing right now. Such as 5w-30 if it's usually below freezing when you start up. If it's not continuing to make noise, especially after it's been sitting for at least a day or so, then I "think" you can rule out timing chain issues.

    Good luck.
  19. powderpig

    powderpig SILVER Star

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    If a timing chain slipper has broke, check the timing and see if you have a different base timining. If so this may be what is up. If not it may be the oil and it related stuff going on(as in post 18). Even in the cold enviroment here in colorado I run the rotella syn 5w-40. I do get a start up rattle sometimes(usually after setting for 5 days or more) but most days all is good. How long on your oil change and what type of oil? What is the filter you run? Once or twice in not a big thing, but if it happens all the time then it is a problem. As for the timing chain problem, the guy is shoveling you a big pile. The timeing chain and related parts are strong and reliable in the 1FZ. The 93-94 slippers can break, but it is not that common. later robbie
  20. Skillet

    Skillet Skillet SILVER Star

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    I am running Rotella 5 - 40 full synthetic with the big Napa Gold filters.

    This batch has about 6500mi on it. Not much, Iwas going to about 8500.

    Keep in mind, I am in Santa Cruz, CA and it does not really get cold here, maybe some frost once in a while.

    Therefore, I don't think the cold is it.

    Maybe I will change out the oil and put some of the Lucas Oil Treatment in it. See what happens.

    Thanks for the info.

    Jeb

    Edit: Just went out and started it up after sitting overnight, 12 + hours, sounds perfect. Verrrrry strange.

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