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Lift Springs-Rates and Question

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by cary, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. cary

    cary

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    So I am looking at the OME 861/862 lift springs and also the Eiback 1.5" lift springs to use with my Bilsteins. I am conserned about the stiffness of the OME springs and I don't intend to add any accessories to make the LC heavier. I have been able to get the spring rates from both companies and they are:

    Eibach

    Front- Progressive 140-190 lbs/inch
    Rear- Progressive 150-205 lbs/inch

    OME

    861> 220lbs
    862> 240lbs
    851> 220lbs
    860> 220lbs

    Obviously these rates are signifcantly different. So my questions are:

    1) Does anyone know the stock rates?

    2) For those that are running the 861/862 how much stiffer are the springs that stock? To get really specific, do you know how much the rear drops when you add 200 pounds on the bumper (if anyone can check this I could get an idea of the rate by comparing it to the stock change when the weight is added; also if you have the 860 springs this would help because their rate is close)?

    3) For those that changed from the stock springs, do you happen to notice if the stock springs were longer or shorter than the 861/861 when not compressed?


    Thanks

    Cary
     
  2. shocker

    shocker

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    IIRC, the low lift OME's were a little taller than my worn stockers when unloaded, but the OME's coils are SIGNIFICANTLY thicker than the OEM ones.

    If you're concerned with ride, the OME's seriously rode soooooo much better than stock, even with OEM shocks. If I was you, I wouldn't even consider the Eibach's, but I don't really know a whole lot about those specific springs either.
     
  3. cary

    cary

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    Shocker,

    When you say much better, can you exlplain a bit? With the stock shocks did you notice an increase in harshness, much firmer ride where you changed the springs? How would you say the handling changed? I know that I am asking very subjective terms, but I really don't want a harsh ride. With the bilsteins the ride is already firm, I would just like a bit of lift.

    Cary
     
  4. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr SILVER Star

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    OK, with the OME system, the ride is more firm, but less jarring. Expansion joints in the road are much less noticable than stock, large holes, curbs, etc. are just sucked up like nothin'.

    Off road, the flex is great, and washboard roads no longer bounce the truck all over, the ride being much more smooth.

    IMO, OME is much better than stock, hands down.

    -H-
     
  5. Seminole

    Seminole

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    Cary, ditto what everyone else has said. IIRC the stock (read original) springs were a little shorter than the OME's. I have that combo (861/862) and like Hltppr says, the ride is much improved. Cornering improved, body roll was virtually eliminated, flex is great. Mine is still a bit stiff because I went with the hvy's and still don't have a lot of mod - wt on mine. When loaded with bodies or gear (200-500lbs) it rides VERY good. I recommend highly. You WILL be amazed at the difference and ride quality. :)
     
  6. shocker

    shocker

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    Ditto on the ditto's :D

    Yeh, I was a little skeptical at first. I've put OME on a Jeep GC (don't say it), Disco (again, don't say it), and my old FJ60; never really that impressed.

    But on the 80, whoooooooo BIG difference to the plus side. Guess it's like the difference between driving an old beater Pinto, then stepping into an M3. O.K., not that drastic, but you get the idea. Just felt MUCH more solid, without any harshness at all. Bottom line: my mom actually said it rode better, and she's the biggest pansy I know. :D
     
  7. sjcruiser

    sjcruiser

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    Cary,

    My experience with OME861/862 is just like what Seminole said. A little stiffer than stock in some very limited road conditions; other than that, it's very pleasant in all aspects (kids no longer complaining about sitting on the 3rd row on long trips).

    Frank.
     
  8. cary

    cary

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    Okay,

    In the interest of science, I decided to go against you all and get the Eibachs. As near as I can tell the stock spring rate is about 125 lb/inch. I have run the OME springs in my Pathfinder and have not been impressed with how they have settled over the past 2 years. Also, Eibach recommends the use of Bilsteins which I already have.

    I will give a follow up one they are installed.

    Cary
     
  9. Landpimp

    Landpimp GOLD Star

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    I typed this out sometime ago out of my OME fitting book, might help or it might not

    >Spring...bar...free ht...# of...coil....spr rate
    >number...dia....DS/PS....coils..weight..(lbf/in)
    >------+++----++-------+++-----++------++--------
    >850......17mm..495/505mm..9.8....7.3kg....220
    >850j.....17....515/525....9.8....7.3......220
    >851......17....475/485....9.8....7.3......220
    >861......16....480/490...10.4....7.0......220
    >860......18....480/490....8.3....8.1......220
    >862......17....460/470....9.0....8.0......240
    >863......19....480/490....8.3....9.2......250
    >863j.....19....505/515....8.3....9.2......265
    >864......20....480/490....8.3...10.4......320
    >.
    >.
    >OME.....Open Closed
    >shocks.length/length
    >------+-------------
    >N70.......614/354
    >N71E......620/370
    >N73.......614/354
    >N73L......667/387
    >N74E......620/370
    >N74L......667/387
    >

    I also did all the Cruiser leaf springs.....but ya don't need them

    John H
     
  10. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    John,

    Thanks for the chart, that is handy info. It also explains why the 864's I test fitted put me in the clouds. I gather that the DS-PS needs to be inverted for LH drive? IIRC, the Left hand (as seated in the vehicle) springs are The longer ones?

    Dan.
     
  11. cary

    cary

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    [quote author=Landpimp link=board=2;threadid=4537;start=msg35391#msg35391 date=1061946850]
    I typed this out sometime ago out of my OME fitting book, might help or it might not

    >Spring...bar...free ht...# of...coil....spr rate
    >number...dia....DS/PS....coils..weight..(lbf/in)
    >------+++----++-------+++-----++------++--------
    >850......17mm..495/505mm..9.8....7.3kg....220
    >850j.....17....515/525....9.8....7.3......220
    >851......17....475/485....9.8....7.3......220
    >861......16....480/490...10.4....7.0......220
    >860......18....480/490....8.3....8.1......220
    >862......17....460/470....9.0....8.0......240
    >863......19....480/490....8.3....9.2......250
    >863j.....19....505/515....8.3....9.2......265
    >864......20....480/490....8.3...10.4......320
    >.
    >.
    >OME.....Open Closed
    >shocks.length/length
    >------+-------------
    >N70.......614/354
    >N71E......620/370
    >N73.......614/354
    >N73L......667/387
    >N74E......620/370
    >N74L......667/387
    >

    I also did all the Cruiser leaf springs.....but ya don't need them

    John H
    [/quote]

    Okay does anyone else think that OME's charts are not accurate for the spring rates? For example, the 861 and 851 springs. They are supposed to be the same spring rate, yet they are within 1/4" of each other in free length, same coil size, but the 851 has one less coil which should give a higher spring rate. If they were the same rate they would only give 1/4" in ride hight. Same goes for the 863 v. 863J rear springs, same diameter spring, same number of coils, one is just 1" longer than the other, but yet OME states they are different rates.

    Does anyone agree with me? If you want some information on how the variables change spring rates check out this site. http://www.efunda.com/DesignStandards/springs/spring_design.cfm

    Cary
     
  12. Riley

    Riley

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    Hi guys -

    I thought I'd drag up one of the many old threads on springs and lift to do one final check on my OME purchase from Christo (rather than starting a new thread).

    Here's the requirements:

    - 1995 stock truck, will likely get sliders soon but not this month due to $$.
    - daily driver of my wife (soccer ect..)
    - driven offroad for fishing/camping on fairly rough 4x4 roads (loaded with gear)
    - tires are stock but would like 32" or 33" one day

    Don't want the truck to handle poorly or be too aggresive that my wife will be pissed. :mad:

    After pondering this for awhile plus a call to Christo I'm thinking of 851/860 setup (with caster correction).

    In summary - I think 2" lift would be ok but if it ends up being "3.5, that might be too much (compared to where I am now).

    What say you all. Will I (she) be happy?
    Will it handle ok?

    She agrees that the rear is sitting too low now.

    Please put my mind at ease.

    Riley
     
  13. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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  14. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Riley,
    I've been on the 851/860's for about 2 years. (850j/863's will be next.)

    >> What say you all. Will I (she) be happy? <<

    She may whine about the increased lift, especially while the running boards are off and before the sliders are installed. Turn up the radio. After the sliders, the whining should subside somewhat.

    >> Will it handle ok? <<

    Oh yeah! :D

    This configuration should hold you until the front bar and winch and the rear bumper and tyre carrier. Then you'll want to go up a notch.

    -B-
     
  15. Riley

    Riley

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    Ok Dan - I'll bite.....

    Why do you recommend the heavier springs? I have no extra bumpers / winch ect....

    Wouldn't this ride harsh on a stock truck?

    Do you recommend this because of the ability to carry 300lbs of camping gear ?

    Thanks for the input.

    R
     
  16. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Riley,

    The best answer I can give is a question: Will you never get a winch or pack a bunch of gear or tow a trailer?

    You have already indicated an intent to get sliders, there's 100 lbs. Will you really stop there?

    As we speak, mine weighs 6,020 lbs, stock is 4,800 lbs. I'm not quite finished yet.

    Beo recently had a bunch of Scout stuff in his and it dropped the rear far enough for him to comment about it.


    D-
     
  17. Cruiserdrew

    Cruiserdrew SILVER Star

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    If this is really a daily ride for your wife/kids and it gets only moderate off-road use, the Medium duty springs (851/860) will be great. The ride is firmer and more controlled than stock, the lift is moderate but enough to notice. The firmer springs are more harsh without extra weight. The firmer springs would be great if you have a lot of armor and a winch. The 80 lift kits are inexpensive enough that if you run the medium set for a few years, once your wife tires of the 80 and wants a new car, you can upgrade to the J springs then. I have been down this exact same road. The medium set was great untill I started adding heavy stuff, and went to Moab. I thought I was done, after the j springs, but after seeing MTNRAT's 6 inch springs, I'm not so sure. One thing for sure, the 6 inch springs would keep my 5"4" wife out of my truck. :D
     
  18. ginericLC

    ginericLC Wagon Wheeler! GOLD Star

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    Another thing that dramatically effects the spring and shock experience of the buyer is the tire and wheel combination. Heavy tires and wheels will push the springs harder than a stock set of tires and wheels.

    On my 91 I'm running J springs with no spacers, 15x8 589s with 35" MT KMs. And it is fairly light, I have a front tube bumper and sliders, no winches, or swingouts yet. On my 94 I'm running stock springs with new stock shocks (don't ask why). The 91 is tons better driving around town for ride. My wife and I swapped vehicles last week for awhile and she said there are two major differences that she notices. One the 91 takes longer to stop, and two she can point the 91 at anything and it will suck up the bumps. Off road there is no comparison, the 91 kicks butt. My dad runs Rancho RS9000Xs on his 97 LX450, prior to that he ran them on his 94 LC. There is a night and day difference in the ride just from changing the shocks. I personally drove both before and after just changing the shocks.

    Eibach and Bilstein is a good way to get a stiff ride if that is what you are after.

    I ran OME on my 60 series with Rancho RS9000s and it was much better than stock and with some of the cheaper springs offered having lots of failures. I think I would choose OME again.
     
  19. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    [quote author=Riley link=board=2;threadid=4537;start=msg56848#msg56848 date=1067488755]
    - daily driver of my wife (soccer ect..)

    Don't want the truck to handle poorly or be too aggresive that my wife will be pissed. :mad:

    [/quote]

    The above is the reason why you need 851/860's in the front . If you go with heavier springs WITHOUT the extra weights of bumpers and winches, you will not have correct caster and the handling will be sketchy. There is no reason to compromise driveability when the springs are designed for a specific setup.

    Heavier is not the way to go without extra weight. You also run the risk of getting driveline vibrations with the heavy springs and no weight in the front. This is not theory, we know from first hand experience.

    See CDan's other tread on caster issues.
     
  20. Riley

    Riley

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    [quote author=Riley link=board=2;threadid=4537;start=msg56848#msg56848 date=1067488755]
    After pondering this for awhile plus a call to Christo I'm thinking of 851/860 setup (with caster correction).

    In summary - I think 2" lift would be ok but if it ends up being "3.5, that might be too much (compared to where I am now).

    What say you all. Will I (she) be happy?
    Will it handle ok?

    She agrees that the rear is sitting too low now.

    Please put my mind at ease.
    [/quote]

    Hi Guys - Well after many months of being too busy...I finally got my OME 851/860 from Slee installed. Also did the caster correction at the same time.

    WOW - I love it. :D Looks and handles great. :eek: The stock tires look a little lonely down there and need something to fill up the space.

    My wife (her DD) doesn't seem to mind it at all. I think now it's a good time to get the sliders approved as they might help with the step in and of course the protection. ;) Can't wait for spring and some off-roading.

    I'll try to get a pic to share next weekend.

    Now the LSPV is next. Seems to brake fine but I'll get to it soon. :banana:

    This truck is starting to get there. :beer:

    Riley