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KZJ78 starting problem

Discussion in '70-Series Tech' started by fazc76, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    Hello mudders,

    I bought a 1995 KZJ78 Prado yesterday, it was advertised for sale as a none runner, got it towed home.

    The person I bought it from said it was driving perfectly for the 2 years he had it, a few weeks ago it just cut off whilst driving, no previous warning, no smoke, no noise - just cut off and did not want to start again. I don't have a reason not to believe him.

    So this morning got under the bonnet to check the obvious, timing belt is fine, fuel filter had diesel, the primer pump was pumping diesel out..... then cracked an injector whilst cranking the engine to find no diesel at injector nozzle.

    The return pipe from the injection pump WAS returning fuel back towards the fuel tank - but not to the injectors.

    I figured it must have a fuel cut off solenoid, I found it ontop of the pump towards the rear, a grey plug with 1 black and 1 red wire coming out, solenoid was not clicking with ignition on so i pulled the plug to find it was only getting 0.03 volts with ignition on, (on my other prado a 2lte it was getting almost 12 volts with ignition on - that one starts and drives as it should) so I gave the red wire 12V from the battery - still no clicking, I gave the black wire earth and and red wire 12V together and the solenoid clicked (red/black wires of the IP solenoid) .....ahaaa

    So I got assistance to crank the engine whilst applying 12v directly to the solenoid red and earth directly to the black solenoid wire..... and.....the motor started ! BUT revs kept rising steadily and there was a HUGE cloud of grey smoke.....yes GREY (NOT black,blue or white)

    I pulled one of the wires from the solenoid and the engine shut down....... tried again after making sure all injectors nuts were tight......again with the red and black wires as before ... the engine started again with the same huge cloud of grey smoke and engine revs rising steadily quite high so I pulled the wire to switch the engine off.

    Once started the engine sounds OK, obviously loud as the revs kept rising but I didn't notice any odd knocking.

    The only way I can get it started is by applying 12v and earth directly to the 2 solenoid wires on top of the IP pump. I noticed the solenoid got quite hot during this process.


    Also I noticed that the glow plug light stays on continously - I am sure it should go off in a few seconds but it doesn't.


    Q1) Why do I have to give 12v power AND earth (negative) DIRECTLY to the cut off solenoid?

    Q2) Why the huge cloud of GREY smoke?

    Q3) Why do the revs keep climbing without me pressing the accelerator?


    The vehicle does have some sort of alarm system, I dont know if it is also an immobiliser, it beeps with remote key and locks and unlocks the doors.

    Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.

    I have attached a couple of pictures to show the solenoid plug/wires and the KZJ78 itself.

    Thank you all in advance. :beer:

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  2. denis

    denis (O) toyota nut (O) SILVER Star

    well you're not playing with a simple cutoff solenoid like on mechanical pump but with some sort of metering solenoid because this is an electronically controlled pump, unfortunately I know nothing about those.
    You could try tracing the alarm system and immobilizer wiring and get rid of it altogether and start from there. Like eliminating one possible source of your problem one at a time.
    good luck anyway
  3. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    Thanks Denis.

    I now know it is an autowatch 160ti category 1 alarm and immobiliser, I found the main unit hidden under the dash and it seems there is a single black cable coming out of one side of the box but its NOT connected to anything (other side has a multi cable harness coming out) This single black cable is a an earth cable if I check with my bulb tester one end connected to a live the other connected to this black cable provides earth and my bulb lights up...... so I am wondering if this earth cable provides earth to something to complete a circuit........ but what....:bang:
  4. kbushnz

    kbushnz

    Messages:
    560
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    fazc76
    Get a copy of the 1KZTE engine manual.
    There is an excellent section on troubleshooting the electronics on this baby.
    You may have an electrical problem, it will also tell you what all the modules / solenoids are.
    There are some links in the forums Online Manual section.
  5. hybric4x4diesel

    hybric4x4diesel

    Messages:
    224
    yes denis is right, this 3.0l 1kz engine is efi fuel pump,never apply battery voltage to it you are luckly not to fried the ecu.get a manual & check the spill ring in ohms with a multimeter it should fall between 1k-ohm - 1.5 k-ohm if i am not mistaken & also check the bottem solenoid for ohm reading.this efi pump,so far no fuel pump industries can fixed it. but i do fixed some of them if the internal are in good shape,then most of the time is the spill ring soleniod. if every things is good then check the tps.
  6. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    Would a faulty TPS stop the engine from starting?

    I feel the problem is definetly related to injection pump - as it is not pumping fuel to the injectors (but does pump fuel back to the fuel tank) SO this would mean that the fuel cutoff solenoid is stuck/not opening/faulty..... as mentioned above when I applied 12v current AND eart to the 2 solenoid wires the engine started (by turning the key ofcourse) but there was a LOT of grey smoke. As soon as I pulled the power from the solenoid wire the engine cut out.

    When I switch on the ignition I get a 0.03V reading from the red solenoid wire - shouldnt it be much higher? (on my 2lte prado this rewading is close to 12v and that starts and drives fine)

    The glow plug light remains no matter how long I wait before starting the engine.

    The glow plug relay DOES click once when ignition is switched on.

    It is very frustrating.:frown:
  7. Your ECU is fried. Same problem with my brother KZJ78 last time. changed the ECU and car fired right up.
  8. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    Thanks mudderer.

    I came to the same conclusion after I noticed that the CEL does not light up at all, ignition on no CEL, diagnostic socket jumper connected and still no CEL I suppose this means the ECU is cooked....

    Is there ANY other reason why the CEL would not light up?

    Thanks
  9. hybric4x4diesel

    hybric4x4diesel

    Messages:
    224
    hi you are from sabah that's good to know, will visit you in the near future.any chance to know you phone for contact while visiting kota kinabalu?
  10. hybric4x4diesel

    hybric4x4diesel

    Messages:
    224
    hi did you check that there is power to the glow plug? and pull one out to check ?
  11. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    Yes there is over 9V continously to the glow plugs - I didn't take any plugs out tho'.

    Even if there was a dead glow plug the check engine light CEL should still light up when ignition is on - what do you think?

  12. cicak

    cicak

    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
    Ok so the ECU is fried - What caused it to be fried you plug another one in and it also fries your dead. Did it get wet did it get a surge? Did they jump start the jeloppy and fry it?

    Can you reflash it in the UK?

    HOw much is a ECU over there they cost us over $1000rm (200pounds here).
  13. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    What caused it to cook.... well it has 2 batteries, the one closest to the bulkhead was not secured into place by the bracket, I am assuming this battery moved from its place + terminal touched the primer pump housing causing a surge / shortcircuit - the seller did say it was a sudden shut down of the engine whilst he was driving...... (I have secured the battery with its bracket now)

    Many used ecus for Surf kz185 and prado 2ltes on ebay between £35 to £150 .... so not the end of the world.

    Have you any idea why the CEL light wouldnt light up with ignition or diagnostic socket jumped either?
  14. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    Will an ECU from a Toyota Surf KZN130 or KZN185 be ok to fit to my KZJ78 Prado?

    They both have the same KZ-TE 3.0TD engine with auto box.
  15. kbushnz

    kbushnz

    Messages:
    560
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Only one thing comes to mind.
    Some of the Surf autos have electronically controlled line pressure for the auto via the ECU.
    Where as the KZJ78's auto's line pressure is controlled the old fashioned way with a lift cable from the throttle.
    Take out the ECU, above glove box and get its P/N and do a google search. They may also have different plugs.
  16. hybric4x4diesel

    hybric4x4diesel

    Messages:
    224
    hi glow plugs system is another system,it has individual ecu (timmer & 2 relays,-2 stage heating)try these; during cranking, crank open the steel line on the injector fitting(17mm) to check for any diesel fuel coming out,if yes,#1,check any compression,should be 400 -460 psi on the glow plugs.if no,#2 check main fuses on the battery terminal (positive side). then let me know.
  17. fazc76

    fazc76

    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    Oxford, England
    Thanks Hybric,

    There is no fuel at injectors, but the return pipe ontop of the pump has fuel going back to the tank when cranking.

    The CEL " check engine light" does NOT come on with ignition, the glow plug light stays ON no matter how long I wait with ignition on.

    With ignition OFF the glow blug rail is negative / earth, I had a teste lead on the battery + and second tester lead on the glowplug rail and my tester lit up! (the one that joins all the glow plugs) Does this mean there is a problem / short circuit on the glow plug wiring?

    Thank you.
  18. gotoy

    gotoy

    Messages:
    660
    Location:
    Kuantan, Malaysia.
    My own 1kz-te has been having an intermittant starting problem.

    Sometimes will start perfectly, but recently the engine will run for a few seconds and die. Last week the engine just died once.

    Hopefully its just an electrical connection or something in the fuel lines.

    Presently in some workshop at the otherside of the country and say will be ok tomorrow.

    Fingers and toes crossed.
  19. hybric4x4diesel

    hybric4x4diesel

    Messages:
    224
    hi, no fuel at the injectors mean,,fuel pump or may be together with the ECU some how not working, OH DID YOU CHECK THE T-BELT? is that OK? may be you have a bad t-belt,broken belt may cause the crank to cam timing went off.so check it out, & let me know.
  20. hybric4x4diesel

    hybric4x4diesel

    Messages:
    224
    hi don"t worry about the glow plugs for now,what you mention for the glow plugs power is ok to me.

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