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Inner bearing seal

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by medtro, Jun 3, 2003.

  1. medtro

    medtro

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    For the FZJ80, can I use the front wheel inner bearing seal on the rear wheel? I notice this is a slight difference on the seals, the rear inner seal has "extra lip". Is there any reason for that?

    Thanks

    medtro
     
  2. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    I would not do it.

    Yes the wheel bearings are the same but the stuff around them is not. The correct part number is 90311-62002.

    I will speculate and say that they may be different because the rear ones may be called upon to hold back 90 weight if the little axle shaft seal fails. :dunno:

    Disclaimer: That is just a S.W.A.G. :ugh:
     
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  3. bjowett

    bjowett Supporting Vendor

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    Interesting... a better seal... why not use them front and rear? You could probably get away with using the front seal in the rear.
     
  4. cruiserman

    cruiserman

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    I don't know why the seals are different.  I do know that if the axle seal fails, the wheel bearing seal will not hold the gear lube.  You get a nice starburst pattern on the wheel radiating from the hub :).

    Nice setup on your 4Runner, Brian. I'm curious if the 1 ton mini diff and the 80 reverse cut diff will swap?
     
  5. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Dan,
    Aren't the front axles a different diameter than the rear axles?

    FWIW, the rear seals don't do any better at holding back the oil (thank goodness). At 105k miles my rear seals on both sides were leaking so bad there was no, repeat no, grease in the rear wheel bearings. There was 90wt gear oil in the hub and cleaning for repacking was a breeze. The rear wheel bearings looked great.

    -B-
     
  6. cruiserman

    cruiserman

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    No, they aren't a different diameter at the splined sections. I forget about the rest of the axle length.
     
  7. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    -B-

    They must be the same diameter front and rear as the same wheel bearings are used. I remember that you had inner seal failure but did the 90 weight make it past the wheel bearing seals? If it didn't maybe that is the difference. :dunno:
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    >> inner bearing seal on the rear wheel <<

    I just noticed that medtro and you are talking about the inner seal on the hub. I was talking about the rear inner axle seals. :slap:

    Sorry, never mind.
    -B-
     
  9. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    -B-

    Answer the dern question, did gear oil get past the wheel bearing seals or not?

    I know that your axle shaft seal (s) failed and the bearings were washed. But, did the bearing seal hold the gear oil in the axle. If so, then that is probably the difference between the front and rear seals. :dunno:
     
  10. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    C-Dan,
    The rear hubs, inner wheel bearing, and outer wheel bearing were being lubricated by 90wt. from the rear diff. No wheel bearing grease at all on one side; a tablespoon full on the other side. This was about 105k IIRC. There was a copious amount of 90wt in the hub.
    -B-
     
  11. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    OK,

    DID THE WHEEL BEARING SEALS ALLOW GEAR OIL TO EXIT THE AXLE OR NOT?

    My guess is...no. If I am correct then it is logical to assume that the main difference between the front and rear axle wheel bearing seals is the ability of the rear axle seals to keep gear oil in the housing as opposed to allowing it to leak out all over the brakes, ETC.... :dunno:
     
  12. medtro

    medtro

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    Dan,

    I don't think Beowulf understood your question. It gets too complicated when there is more than 1 seals involved.

    My rear axle seals failed on both sides, all the bearings were nicely washed by the gear lube. However, the gear lube didn't get pass the bearing seal. All the brake parts were dry.

    If the rear bearing seal is used to stop the lube from getting out, I would prefer to use the front wheel inner bearing seal on the rear wheel. That way, I know I need a new axle seal when I see a wet brake drum/disc.

    medtro
     
  13. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Medtro,

    The Wulf is dumb like a fox sometimes..... ::)

    I guess you are correct there.

    I also guess that you MAY be able to use front seals on the rear axle. Aparently Toyota thinks that the seals need to be different. As I have been associated with Toyota for a bit past 24 years , I would defer to their wisdom in this regard.
    They do not generally do something without good reason. Let me drift out a bit. I have a Dodge truck (1 ton 4wd) that has a Dana 71 rear axle.(huge). the wheel bearing setup is very similar to what the cruiser has. In the case of the Dana the gear oil from the housing lubricates the wheel bearings ON PURPOSE, they are not "greased". It is reasonable to assume that Toyota may have expected "cross contamination" from the axle housing to the wheel bearings and designed a seal to keep the oil in as opposed to letting it all come out when you are "way the hell out there" in the bush. It is also interesting to note that there is no published service interval for the rear bearings as there is for the front axle. It is possible that they expect inner seal failure to happen over time and they want gear oil to lubricate the bearings.........
     
  14. Rogue

    Rogue

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    From the limited knowlege I have it seems that parts are usually designed for a reason and a specific place like Dan said.

    I tried to fit a hub seal into the axle earlier today with no luck. Go figure...
     
  15. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    >> I don't think Beowulf understood your question. <<

    All the shouting going on intimidated me and I couldn't think straight.

    >> DID THE WHEEL BEARING SEALS ALLOW GEAR OIL TO EXIT THE AXLE OR NOT? <<

    No.

    -B-
     
  16. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    SORRY BEO...opps :G Like I tell my kids "inside voices please" :G

    Seriously, that could be the main difference between the front and rear seals. If gear oil is a good enough lubricant for wheel bearings in a 1 ton Dana, it would probably do ok in a FF cruiser axle.
    I will also say that if any gear oil shows up around the rear wheels you should fix it right now.
     
  17. medtro

    medtro

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    From what I have seen, there is not enough gear lube in there to lube the bearings.

    medtro
     
  18. ReformedJeeper

    ReformedJeeper

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    Dan, I know this is a really really late answer to your question, but my inner oil seal has just failed (I'm sure because I'm splattering a small amount of gear oil on the rim). No gear oil leaked out of the hub from the back. Oil leaked past the dust gasket between the end of the hub and axle flange. I'm planning on tearing into it this weekend. I would say Dan's theory about the rear seal keeping the gear oil in is correct.

    I rebuilt the axle about 10k miles ago, when I did, the lockout was cross threaded onto the spindle by the previous owner. I was able to clean up the threads, I'm hoping this isn't what caused this seal failure. Here's hoping that I just didn't install the inner seal properly.
     
  19. bloc

    bloc SILVER Star

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    This holds the record for thread revival timeframe that I know of..

    Loose bearings allow the hub to be slightly off-center, which will let gear lube leak past the inner seal even if it is perfect.
     
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