I want to lower the CG of my SOA wagon. Ideas? (1 Viewer)

[Randy88FJ62]

You could see if there is enough room in the spring hanger to flip the top two leaves in the packs upside down . That would give you 1" less of a lift .

I can't picture this in my head. If you flipped a leaf wouldn't it fatigue and crack prematurely?

I'm assuming the 1" less lift would come from rearranging the military wrap orientation?

I'm going to have to look at a spring pack closer to figure this one out.

 

[ntsqd]

You could simply replace the axles with some G.I. Rockwells. They weigh enough that it would have a dramatic influence on the height of the CG.

 

[lcwizard]

LCWizard,
I have a stock setup with shackles up front.

Ntsqd,

The recent trip wheeling in the rocks probably torqued the front springs a bit much. This exact situation happened at SnT two years ago.

Which side of the axle are the front springs bent? When you replace them have a spring shop and an anti-wrap leaf to each pack. It helps with the torque wrap without affecting spring rates as much as a full leaf. A good wrap leaf will be of a heavier gauge than the others of the pack and is placed at the top of the pack but terminates just beyond the spring perch

 

[lcwizard]

You could simply replace the axles with some G.I. Rockwells. They weigh enough that it would have a dramatic influence on the height of the CG.

Or fill the tires with sand like the rock crawlers do

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Which side of the axle are the front springs bent? When you replace them have a spring shop and an anti-wrap leaf to each pack. It helps with the torque wrap without affecting spring rates as much as a full leaf. A good wrap leaf will be of a heavier gauge than the others of the pack and is placed at the top of the pack but terminates just beyond the spring perch

The front springs are slightly bent just behind the front axle.

There will be no shop working on my truck. I refuse to pay someone to make springs for me. I rather save my cash and go to a junk yard and pull whatever leaves I need and custom make my own packs.

You're saying by adding a thicker leaf (like those found on older suburbans and chveys) on the "top" I can reduce axle wrap. For example this short leaf would be similar to the short AAL sold by MAF?

I have never seen a short thick leaf added to the top of a pack. Somthing to consider.

 

[FJ60Seth]

You could simply replace the axles with some G.I. Rockwells. They weigh enough that it would have a dramatic influence on the height of the CG.

and build a skid plate out 1/2" plate

 

[sheepdawg]

sway bars?

I am assuming you don't have sway bars. Your 60 came with a front sway bar to assist with highway driving. If it is still too top heavy, I recommend getting the rear sway bar from a fj62 and fabricate a mount for the rear of your fj60. With both front and rear sway bars, you should be fine. You can just disconnect for the trail.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I am assuming you don't have sway bars. Your 60 came with a front sway bar to assist with highway driving. If it is still too top heavy, I recommend getting the rear sway bar from a fj62 and fabricate a mount for the rear of your fj60. With both front and rear sway bars, you should be fine. You can just disconnect for the trail.

My truck is a 62. It came with front and rear sway bars. I plan to put them both back on shortly.

 

[slowandsteady BJ]

My 60 is SOA with a RTT as well. I have played with different spring arrangements and have it dialed in pretty well now. My truck leans a bit in the corners but not nearly like it used to on stock springs when I first went SOA. I too run 2.5 of backspacing but on a 9"rim (wide) 17" diameter. Running the 17's with a stiff walled 37" tire made a big difference over 15" rim and floppy BFG's.

I have aftermarket front springs (unknown brand) they have a mild lift but after some wheeling they are almost flat and dual rancho 5000 at each front corner. Its over damped for sure on the road but work really nice off road aired down. The extra damping works well in the corners as the truck wont flop in the corners.

In the rear I have extra leaves in the stock packs, nothing fancy there but what really helped is the 12" billsteins 5125's and air assist bags. On road inflating the bags helps with stability emencely! My expedition weight is around 2800KG and the truck is rock stable. Off road I deflate the bags and the suspension works as normal. The bags disconnect at the bottom for articulation so they wont tear under droop. Some might think disconnecting airbags are a bad idea and thats fair enough... I have had no problems and wouldn't change a thing.

Also removed sway bars.

More to the point..... and to answer a lower COG question: How close to the axle tubes are the bottom of your spring perches? Sink those bad boys right down! I lost 3/4 of an inch doing that.

Good luck and lets see some pics!

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Pics as requested:

 

[cody c]

Id mention to get your bump stops to an appropriate height, also do you have sway bars in it still? Maybe go to a larger aftermarket version, or something from a junk yard (1 ton ford or dodge sway bars).

DO you keep your extra fuel in cans on the rear bumper or your spare tire? If you went to a larger fuel tank or moved your spare back under that should help with ballast a bit.

And wheel spacers should give you a pinch more stability though its already been posted.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Current setup:
no rear bumper, sold my kaymar
spare tire is currently mounted under truck
stock sway bars going back on
no bump stops, I need to fab spacers and get them back on
wheel spacers front and rear 1.5" I think?

Does anyone have experience with a thicker sway bar? Would a thicker beefier one make a noticable difference over stock?

 

[Wile E Coyote]

I guess I'll start by putting the sway bars back on and fixing the front leaf pack and see where that put me.

I'm thinking you'll feel more stable after doing just that, esp while on the highway with RTT in place.

Experiment with tire psi when offroad, as well. A 35" tire at 10 psi sure has a squirrely sidewall. It for sure softens the ride and increases traction but it also increases the body roll you don't care for.

 

[lcwizard]

The front springs are slightly bent just behind the front axle.

There will be no shop working on my truck. I refuse to pay someone to make springs for me. I rather save my cash and go to a junk yard and pull whatever leaves I need and custom make my own packs.

You're saying by adding a thicker leaf (like those found on older suburbans and chveys) on the "top" I can reduce axle wrap. For example this short leaf would be similar to the short AAL sold by MAF?

I have never seen a short thick leaf added to the top of a pack. Somthing to consider.

More of a half leaf. Imagine a leaf cut off just beyond the spring perch
A quick google search found this thread

http://www.yotatech.com/f116/anti-wrap-half-leaf-225251/

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Nice link lcwizard. I may have to try the overload spring on top as it looks to be successful for the guy who did it. Interesting how they have added coils to their leaf spring setup for load capacity.

 

[ntsqd]

Nix on adding another type of spring to an existing type. You will never, ever get the damping to work well.

Those K5 Pre-Runner Rancho springs that I put under my Subs had that top riding 1/2 leaf. It had an elongated military wrap. Those springs worked great and I would highly recommend them for any SOA adventure, but as good as they they'll never ride as good as coils. If you search my posts on ColoradoK5.com you'll find the p/n as I posted a thread specific to that spring. It NOT in the regular Rancho K5 application listings, you have to know that they make it and where to find it in their spring p/n descriptions to get the p/n out of their catalog. Most 4X types when told that they were Rancho's were absolutely astonished at their ride and how well they worked. I wouldn't have known about them if a 4X shop owning friend hadn't told me about them. They were also surprisingly inexpensive.

 

[DaveWest5150]

Randy, look into the chevy 63" springs for the rear. Andy has done this to his wagon and says it has changed the the way the truck handles and flexes way better, and at the same time it is more stable. And if done right you can put the rear shackle through the frame, lowering the truck by nearly 2 inches.

 

[lcwizard]

Nix on adding another type of spring to an existing type. You will never, ever get the damping to work well.

Those K5 Pre-Runner Rancho springs that I put under my Subs had that top riding 1/2 leaf. It had an elongated military wrap. Those springs worked great and I would highly recommend them for any SOA adventure, but as good as they they'll never ride as good as coils. If you search my posts on ColoradoK5.com you'll find the p/n as I posted a thread specific to that spring. It NOT in the regular Rancho K5 application listings, you have to know that they make it and where to find it in their spring p/n descriptions to get the p/n out of their catalog. Most 4X types when told that they were Rancho's were absolutely astonished at their ride and how well they worked. I wouldn't have known about them if a 4X shop owning friend hadn't told me about them. They were also surprisingly inexpensive.

Those were the 86211. 52" long with a wrap leaf. The first time I used them was in 95 on an FJ45. The were a perfect no mod fit as far as length and axle position. Subsequently I put three sets on 40's over the next five or six years. That involved spring hanger mods. They worked really well. ...Skip forward eight years t0 2009. I bought two sets for project 40's. Both sets completely crashed in less than a year from a 5" lift to completely flat. One truck went flat before it's maiden voyage sitting still in the shop. I don't know where Rancho
made the first sets vs the later stuff but the last batch had too many coat hangers in the steel

 

[ntsqd]

Must be a different spring, 5" lift is taller than these springs were. I'd say 4" max and probably more like 3"

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Lets hypothetically say that I end up getting 63" chevy springs.
What mods are needed?
1. hole saw frame in two spots and weld in tube
2. new shackle length?
3. new rear shocks? I need at least one new one anyway as it's leaking and probably dead.
4. New U-bolts

Droop and compression should be close to what I'm getting now, especially after frenching the rear hangers. No brake line mods should be needed. No drivrshaft mods should be needed as the axle location will remain the same.