Hydro Steering (1 Viewer)

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Mr.Bryan

Mr.Bryan

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Mar 28, 2003
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Hey guys, working on sorting out details for my 80. My power steering pump is shot and so with that I'm going to begin working on some sort of hydro steering set up. I'm tossing around the pros and cons of assist vs full hydro.

Obviously $ is a factor but it doesn't seem to be as enormous a difference as I had imagined since I have to buy a pump anyway. One of the other main considerations for this is eventually I'd like to 3 link the front so planning out where I'm going to go with this ahead of time will make my life easier down the road.

If I do assist, I'm thinking I might send my steering box out to west texas offroad and have it cleaned up and ported. Then it's a matter of buying a ram and a pump and other steering components to make it match. Joe's set up with the dual arms off each knuckle seems like a solid way to mount everything.

If Full hydro, I reduce the amount of stuff under the front and keep more room for 3linking in the future. Costs more, but simplicity of only a hydraulic system is intriguing to me.

Talk to me.
 
I have no idea the price but am considering full hydro for the mini when the frame breaks again. I like the idea of simplicity (as you stated) and the fewer parts in the way.
As I have hopes for moving the front axle forward and going with larger tyres in the future.
My vote is to go for it and be happy (can't imagine it not making you happy) and it'll be the last steering upgrade you'll ever have to make!
 
Yea, the more i look at it the more fun it looks to be.

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question but if I were to do a full hydro double ram set up, can I ditch the tie rod? I would think yes since the ram would be more than strong enough to support everything. I would just have to make sure that my mounts on the knuckle are beefy as hamburger helper.
 
Mr.Bryan said:
Yea, the more i look at it the more fun it looks to be.

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question but if I were to do a full hydro double ram set up, can I ditch the tie rod? I would think yes since the ram would be more than strong enough to support everything. I would just have to make sure that my mounts on the knuckle are beefy as hamburger helper.
Click to expand...

If you are going full hydro that's easy with a Rhd arm. Mount the ram up front, and no tie rod, you just mount it off the double ended ram. Full hydro on the street gets a little more interesting, since if you lose your pump or motor you lose steering, and it can wander a bit. But since you have a fancy new tow rig and trailer, maybe that's no longer a concern.
 
You have a trailer, thus no excuse to not go full hydro.
 
This is completely true. I do want to be able to street drive and from the reading I've done a lot of it is dependent on selecting all the correct pieces. If it's done properly, it really shouldn't wonder any more than it already does since a lot of my steering bits are approaching whooped out status at the moment. I also like, as tony stated, this is the last steering upgrade I'll ever need.

I'm entertaining the slee high steer double sheer set up w this for extra strength too.

I'm going to put a call out to PSC to discuss their kits.
 
Gumby said:
Just to screw up your plans...a rebuild kit for your power steering pump is cheap and easy to do.
Click to expand...

It's a Gm pump. Probably cheaper to replace it.
 
Someone has to be the sacraficial full hydro steering lamb that we can all learn from helping fix it on the trail, or replicate it part by part because it works great. Either way brian, you have been annointed as that lamb.
 
I'm fine with being that lamb. I know I can get a reman pump for $60 at orileys but even with that the steering still sucks. I want at the minimum assist but even then I keep drifting back to full.

Simplifying and reducing the amount of stuff on the truck has become my focus and combining incredible steering with that would be a really nice option. I think it honestly would really help on the trail too by allowing me to stay on my lines and adjust quicker, easier, and more accurately.

Depending on how $$$ this gets, I'll probably put off linking the front another year, but i'd be fine with that if it means I'll be able to actually steer.
 
My power assist will lift the truck off the ground when it's on its side. Seems like that would be enough. I can't tell when the front is locked or not. Cheap, easy, been done with a Saginaw pump and box. Drives like a normal vehicle on the road.
Or it would if it wasn't the pig.
 
Just remember, full hydro is great in the rocks, but can get old on just a Trail. Winding through the woods gets tiring with hydro, because it's slow. Assist is better, but still not quite as good as regular old power steering.
 
From what i've been reading, that seems like components that aren’t matched correctly or at least not set up for the intended purpose. There's a lot of king of the hammers guys that are running full hydro and at those speeds you need to be able to move quickly. It seems that with a properly tuned system, slow turning wouldn't enter into it. Should be able to blast down a road.
 
Mr.Bryan said:
From what i've been reading, that seems like components that aren’t matched correctly or at least not set up for the intended purpose. There's a lot of king of the hammers guys that are running full hydro and at those speeds you need to be able to move quickly. It seems that with a properly tuned system, slow turning wouldn't enter into it. Should be able to blast down a road.
Click to expand...

It's not the high speed that's an issue. It's the slow, winding through trees that wears on you. Plus, you really can't compare what guys are running in Koh. Many ultra 4 cars have started moving to trophy truck steering racks, which is a who different ballgame.
 
I guess I'm not understanding what you're suggesting. If the steering is capable of slow and fast, why would driving at a medium pace :D be something that wears on the driver?

What I'm finding is that if the valve and ram are properly sized, the system should drive very well, have some amount of feed back, and be easier on the driver than having a mechanical linkage bouncing you around the whole time.
 
Sounds like much research must be done and you need actual feedback from someone who has it.
I am on your side in this Bry.
Even though I know very little about it. I shall investigate it and learn more. As I understand it, and as you stated, if all the proper parts are matched together it should be a joy in any situation.
 
yea, that's what I'm finding.

I don't want there to be sides, I really trust what joe has to say. I'm just not understanding the concept of what he's suggesting.

I was reading more about it today on pirate and there was a few guys who have full hydro set-ups on jeeps that chimed in and said it drives great and they do long trips or daily drive with it. Now, along with that was a bunch of people saying it's sketchy as hell which leads me to believe that as you're piecing a system together, not only does all the hydraulic portions need to be correctly matched, if there are any other issues like caster or alignment, it will exacerbate or amplify those problems through the steering.

Just power washed my whole truck including the engine bay. Depending on if I can find storage for the Lincoln soon, I may start tearing into this in the next few weeks. I'm thinking taking measurements and getting a good idea of how to set everything up then I've been kind of itching to pull the motor and just sort through everything in the engine bay from lines to wires and really simplify and tuck everything in neat.

I do need to finish that god damn cub cadet though...
 
 
Spent plenty of time behind the wheels of rigs with fully hydro. It does a lot of things well, between the dunes and rocks, but spending a day driving it at the cliffs would always get old. Honestly the rig with the best full hydro setup that I have driven was zachs samurai, and that was built with 100% John Deere tractor parts, down to the wheel. It outperforms the fancy PSC setup on his MOG jeep.

Can the steering be fast and light? Yes, generally with a quick turn orbital and a pump optimized to have full flow and pressure at low engine rpm. But a 2.5 turn orbital can be twitchy on the highway. Get back into the realm of 4 turn valves and road driving is better, but still will lag on the trail somewhat.

I'm sure the technology has gotten better, and maybe every setup I've driven has been setup poorly, but when it's a full kit from PSC for a specific application, I can't see it being that far off. In a purely off road rig if I needed to ditch a drag link, I wouldn't hesitate to run one still. It would be a quick turn setup, with steering arms as short as I could run to keep the ram as short as possible. For something hitting the streets, especially when you are still going to have a Panhard rod, id be running assist.

Just my opinion.
 
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