How to sand and paint FJ40 top? (1 Viewer)

[Jay-]

I went ahead and bit the bullet and took my top to a local paint shop.
I want to help and make sure they do it 100% professionally perfect.

Can some one point out a thread on how to do this?
Yes it has rattle can brown and we wanted to do this:

1. remove gutters
2. Sand with 150 grit with a bendable pad.
3. primer
4. Sand
5. Paint.

Other then that iv read 20 pages if you can link the good thread to me?

Or even type it out?

 

[Ken White]

Would also be interested as I about to paint the top of mine.

 

[Jay-]

iv only learned drill out pop rivets on the gutter ehehe, and paint them separate.

 

[elkun1]

When I did mine last summer I used 80 grit on a da. worked well. then i attacked the pinholes in the old fiberglass and jell coat plus spider web cracks. filled everything with glazing and sanded down. shot it with epoxy primer then light sand then filling primer and sanded looked good and was patting myself on back. shot it with single stage and those darn pinholes came back! sanded those areas and figured that would take care of it and shot it again, needless to say i have some pinholes(those evil b*stards) on my top. out local paint store national coating has primer ment to fill pinholes but i was to tight to buy it. I was quoted an extremely high (I thought) amount to have new gel coat shot on so i did it myself. After fighting those darn pinholes i'd charge double what i was quoted. also, I used a urethane sealer between the gutter and top and then riveted it on, then put a self leveling urethane in the gutter. also put on a new toyo seal between top and sides. good luck

 

[honk]

When I did mine last summer I used 80 grit on a da. worked well. then i attacked the pinholes in the old fiberglass and jell coat plus spider web cracks. filled everything with glazing and sanded down. shot it with epoxy primer then light sand then filling primer and sanded looked good and was patting myself on back. shot it with single stage and those darn pinholes came back! sanded those areas and figured that would take care of it and shot it again, needless to say i have some pinholes(those evil b*stards) on my top. out local paint store national coating has primer ment to fill pinholes but i was to tight to buy it. I was quoted an extremely high (I thought) amount to have new gel coat shot on so i did it myself. After fighting those darn pinholes i'd charge double what i was quoted. also, I used a urethane sealer between the gutter and top and then riveted it on, then put a self leveling urethane in the gutter. also put on a new toyo seal between top and sides. good luck

Yeah, fiberglass is different than steel. If the gelcoat is compromised it'll absorb moisture, even through most paints.

The only sure way to do yours, Jay, considering that the gelcoat must be in bad condition from the fire, is to have it prepped for and recoated with fiberglass gelcoat surface. After that it could be painted if you contemplate a color change.

Rather than a body shop I think a better and cheaper job could be found at a boatyard. They know how to keep moisture out of fiberglass.

Or, if you want to try it yourself West Marine has products that'll make it as easy as possible. It's not an easy thing no matter what - messy and time intensive as you can't cheat the cure times.

 

[Tancruiser]

I painted mine with an epoxy deck paint from West Marine and it turned out pretty nice.

 

[Jay-]

Honk, I got a new top and took my old top to the dump, This is for a new top, with rattle can brown on the top.

 

[honk]

Honk, I got a new top and took my old top to the dump, This is for a new top, with rattle can brown on the top.

Good.. In that case and assuming that the new top's original gel coat is intact I'd ask the body shop to be very careful of that coating.

 

[Jay-]

Honk thanks if the new top gel coat is just so so then my options is sanding down and painting?
O there no "Crackers" or any signs of physical damage at all. I don't even know this gell coat I think it gives a smooth shiny surface? But then you paint it? So its unclear why the gell coat is that important.

Well I know soon enough!

 

[honk]

The gel coat protects the fiberglass. Fiberglass is made up of layers of material bonded through and together by a resin glue, for a simple description. It's done by laying down a coat of resin followed by strips of material covered by more resin and built in layers that way over a form to the desired thickness.

Unfortunately the resin doesn't reliably keep water out of the mix and would be permeable if unprotected. Also any abrasion can break the exposed fibers allowing them to curl up and away from the surface and forming an entry for both air and water. Bubbles often called 'blisters' then happen further degrading the utility of the material.

Enter the gel coat - a hardened glossy pure resin final coat which forms a tough surface protecting the internal makeup of the material. Gel coatings can have colors mixed in for a permanent 'paint job' and an attractive appearance.

You can paint a gel coat surface but sanding should be only enough to give the paint something to bite. Sanding to improve the surface appearance or to change contours may well cut through the gel which could allow for the issues I've just mentioned. I don't think I'd want to cut much rougher than 400 grit if I were going to paint something made of fiberglass.

 

[Jay-]

hi, the pop rivets are round. any thoughts how to drill them out with out damaging anything?

 

[honk]

hi, the pop rivets are round. any thoughts how to drill them out with out damaging anything?

Have a look at the other ends. If you can get a drill to them drill there.

If you can't reach the undersides then carefully center punch the round heads and drill a small hole through then chase that hole with the size that better takes out the rivet.

 

[MoCoNative]

You know Jay, unless there is serious evidence of bad rust and corrosion between the gutter metal and fiberglass roof flange I would not take the rivets out.

I'm still not sure just how far you want to push this refurbishment/restoration of your truck. But if the gutter looks good and intact from the bottom and no giant plates of rust are falling out from the little shelf on the inside of the roof it is probably good. From the pictures I saw of the roof you got it looks okay. It looked like to me the gutter has been filled with regular caulking of some kind. If you just want to get a functional roof, then I would do the least work.

I'll give you my two attempts at roof restoration. My original roof panel was in very good shape. I had the impression that there is a layer of primer and crème colored paint over the gelcoat, because the roof and gutter are the same color typically. The body seam filler and or caulking Toyota used around the perimeter typically cracks and breaks out of the area allowing water to leak under the fiberglass and into the interior. This causes a soggy car, and rust between the gutter and fiberglass and gutter and rear walls, etc... over time. So, my first roof, we fixed one or two rivets that were loose. We used a utility knife to cut the filler out of the area between the edge of the fiberglass and outer perimeter of the gutter. It was rusty in there, but not too bad. We also used a die grinder with pointed grinder to go around the edge and clean off the metal of visible rust. We simply sanded the entire top down with a DA sander with 120 then 220 grit paper. Gave it good coat of filling primer. My dad thought the best way to seal the gutter was with fiberglass resin. We filled the gutter clear full over the rivet heads and all with resin. Primed it with sealing primer and one stage top coat white paint. This top looked great for several years, but, the resin was too hard and inflexible and cracked in the rear corners and eventually leaked. Resin is not a good way to fill the gutter. But I fixed the problem by flopping the truck and destroying the top.

My next top was in rougher shape. Some of the gutter was rusted through where it bolts down in the rear corners, and had a radio antenna hole through it in the front. Same treatments as above, cleaned out what I could of the original sealer. Cut out and replaced rusted through sections of the gutter with new metal. Filled the hole with some fiberglass cloth and resin, (boat patch kit) and sanded down the patch. Sanded the whole roof, primed well, fixed any blemishes and filled the gutter area this time with a flexible body sealant caulk I got from NAPA as I recall. I also better sealed the front piece as my original top would let fine snow blow in there. Finished priming this top, top coat of single stage paint and stuck it on. This top held up just fine also until another tragic top incident took its life. But it did now crack or leak anywhere on the gutter with the flexible sealant. We did have a couple pinholes show up after painting.

Your top needs a good sanding, I would try to get all the black/brown paint off it, because you don't know if it will be compatible with automotive paints. Again check for rust through on the gutter, cut all that old caulking out and wire brush it and dremel it and so forth to death till it is pretty clean. Then reprime and paint it all. Or if the caulk looks decent, strip the brown paint off with laquer thinner or something around the edge and take the chance it will hold a paint job again.

A lot of this work you can do at home, then take it to the paint guy, may save you a lot on his prep charges. If the rust and corrosion rate is slow in your area and the truck can be kept under cover during rainy periods, etc... How fast will the gutter completely rot away if you cannot address all the rust under the fiberglass flange? Do you intend to keep the truck for the next 50 years? Again what level of restoration are you doing? What do you want from your truck, a functional rig with oaky paint, or a garage queen. These are questions you need to ask yourself before deciding how far to tear down the rig for these repairs.

 

[Jay-]

Hi my gutter is in great shape. Id like to try and take to this guy at the paint shop on his week end $150 he will sand the top and primer it, good because the primer he was selling me was $75 for a tiny can.

My goal is a perfect shape top. Im going to go 100% stock, hubcaps and all.

You think he can sand it down including the guttters with is DA sander? Its the Velcro sanding pads with the bendable foam backing so it can bend into the gutters.

Yes I would like a great paint job but only a awesome "Cheap" paint job. So if I can cut corners like dremmel the gutters? Then id like that.

You think lacquer thinner wont melt the fiberglass for stripping the gutters?

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[FJ40Mitchell]

Jay, one of our first big restoration projects on our '73 was the hardtop, I think my writeup in my build thread (1973 FJ40) is pretty good. We referenced this writeup by LakeNorman_FJ40. Might be more than you're trying to do if you just wanted to paint it, but if you're already taking it apart it might be worth doing the whole thing.

"Since I'm getting a lot of IMs about how I did it, I'll capture it here again but I think I posted it somewhere else too. Don't get in a hurry as this process took me several weekends (b/c of time needed for paint, seam sealer, adhesive, etc. to cure)

Here is what I did, step by step and you don't need any fancy expensive tools for the job...but you do need to purchase a couple of special inexpensive tools to make the job much easier.

Rivet setting tool:
C.S. Osborne Model Rivet Setter(USA)

Rivets (1/8" x 3/8" flat head):
McMaster-Carr

Also get a bunch (100+) of round 1/8" rivet washers in aluminum to use with these rivets (can get at any hardware store).

Other Materials:
- 3M Seam Sealer (2 tubes from Cool Cruisers of Texas)
- Sikaflex (1 tube of white, waterproof, and long cure set/up type formula)
- Optional: body filler, fiberglass repair kit, 3M Heavy Duty Repair Filler (all this depends on the condition of your fiberglass roof cap)

Tools:
- sledge hammer
- flat steel plate or marble/cement (to use to brace the rivets when you strike them with hammer)
- "clecos" (at least 30+...I used many more...get the 1/8" size)
- cleco pliers
Picture of Cleco Pliers and Clecos

Separate the fiberglass cap from the rain gutter by shearing or sanding the rivet heads off the underside of the drip rail. If the winshield header is loose, now is the time to remove it. Clean out all of the old seam sealer from the drip rail and sand or media blast the drip rail and the winshield header. Remove headliner from underside of roof cap and lightly sand old headliner glue from roof cap.

Replace any welded nuts that have stripped threads or rusted away (can either tack weld new nuts or drill out old nut and simply place a new nut on top of the old one). Repair any rusted sections of the drip rail metal.

Paint drip rail with good rust preventative paint like POR-15 or Rust Bullet. Try not to paint down inside the welded nuts on the drip rail or else you will have to clean the threads with a proper size tap. Also paint the winshield header with rust preventative paint.

The fiberglass top should be checked for holes or cracks and repaired with appropriate fiberglass repair materials. Especially look at the holes that attach the roof cap to the drip rail and repair as necessary (3M High Strength Repair Filler is excellent for this as it dries ultra hard and strong). Light skim coats of body filler can be used for deep scratches on either side of the roof cap. Do not paint roof cap yet!

To re-attach roof cap to rain gutter, place rain gutter and fiberglass roof cap on smooth garage floor (unless you have a huge heavy duty table or countertop). Place a bead of Sikaflex (marine adhesive...get the waterproof one with a longer cure time) around the perimeter of the roof cap and set roof cap inside of drip rail. Use a bunch of "clecos" to secure the roof cap to drip rail or a bunch of other type of "C" clamps to pull the roofcap and gutter together while the Sikaflex cures. If you are not using clecos, clean out the rivet holes to minimize the amount of adhesive that dries in the rivet holes. Let Sikaflex completely cure for a few days and then clean out each and every rivet hole with a 1/8" drill bit.

To install rivets, insert the rivet up from the bottom / underside the rain gutter and through the fiberglass top, place aluminum 1/8" washer on rivet shaft letting the washer lay in the rain gutter area. Brace the rivet from the underside of the rain gutter with a thick piece of steel or other very hard block of marble/granite/cement. Place rivet tool on top side of rivet and strike with a sledge hammer until the rivet shaft flattens and secures itself against the washer. Be careful and don't strike the rivet too many times after it flattens against the washer...don't break the fiberglass! Repeat this process all the way around the perimeter of the top.

Once all rivets are set use 3M Seam Sealer (the stuff that Cool Cruisers of Texas sells...you will need 2 tubes). Smooth the seam sealer with your finger to re-shape the rain gutter area. Each rivet/washer combo should now be invisible and covered with seam sealer. Let the seam sealer dry for a few days and lightly sand it smooth.

Reattach winshield header if removed earlier...again using Sikaflex and clecos to clamp to hardtop. Make sure you get the angle of the winshield header correct or you won't be able to properly bolt the header to the winshield. I'd recommend placing the roof cap / drip rail combo back on the truck and bolt in place to get the angle on the header exactly right. To secure the header panel, I tried using rivets, but was unsuccessful in attaching them b/c of the location of the mounting points, so I used very short rounded stainless button head bolts with a slightly larger diameter stainless washer on the topside and another stainless washer with flat nylock nut on the underside (use some seam sealer to avoid leaks around the bolts/washer area).

You have successfully restored the drip rail & roof cap! Now you are ready to paint the entire roof cap / drip rail (Cygnus White please!!!).

Hope this helps!

 

[Jay-]

Thank you, im going to try the exact same fix.

 

[Jay-]

I kept the gutter on, I paid a body shop $200 to sand and primer it. It had THREE layers of paint, none sanded!!
Either way he had to block sand it by hand as it was very uneven with all the dang layers of dead paint.

i know its a bit of cash for a job I could have done, but I know nothing and took to the pros.

 

[OhioFJ]

I thought I'd tack onto this thread so as not to start yet another.

I have no body work experience but am attempting to rehab my hard top.

It seems to have been painted over at least once in the past; There is a bit of crazing around where the visor was riveted to the fiberglass. I've been sanding it down with an orbital sander and 80 grit. My question - should I continue until all the crazing is gone? I can't really feel any irregularity in the surface. I can see the fiberglass starting to show through.

Any help appreciated!

 

[1969FJ]

I thought I'd tack onto this thread so as not to start yet another.

I have no body work experience but am attempting to rehab my hard top.

It seems to have been painted over at least once in the past; There is a bit of crazing around where the visor was riveted to the fiberglass. I've been sanding it down with an orbital sander and 80 grit. My question - should I continue until all the crazing is gone? I can't really feel any irregularity in the surface. I can see the fiberglass starting to show through.

Any help appreciated!

View attachment 2891505View attachment 2891504

I am having mine done by a boat shop. They are experts in fiberglass and also metal meeting fiberglass. They will do any repairs and re-gelcoat the fiberglass as it was originally.

 

[DangerNoodle]

I thought I'd tack onto this thread so as not to start yet another.

I have no body work experience but am attempting to rehab my hard top.

It seems to have been painted over at least once in the past; There is a bit of crazing around where the visor was riveted to the fiberglass. I've been sanding it down with an orbital sander and 80 grit. My question - should I continue until all the crazing is gone? I can't really feel any irregularity in the surface. I can see the fiberglass starting to show through.

Any help appreciated!

View attachment 2891505View attachment 2891504

Don't get into the gel coat of the fiberglass if you can. I'm assuming you are planning on repriming? If you are doing a full spray on 2K high build, I'd DA with 80, prime, then DA with at least 220, 320 preferred, then topcoat. I'd get your rain gutter on before priming, seam seal all of the gutter and top rivets, then paint. I like to use 3M self-leveling seam sealer, (2 tubes), but any self-leveling sealer should work.

The smaller cracking is pretty normal, from what I have seen. if you have any major cracks that you find when sanding, I'd get some fiberglass reinforced body filler and try and patch those, but otherwise, I'd leave the smaller cracking.