Builds Here we go (FJ-40 getting a 3B/Turbo/H55f)... (1 Viewer)

[DanS HJ-45]

I've only sprayed the underside of my truck with oil when the crank seal failed! It's nice to be in a dry climate for sure. Even when I take one up to CO where they put nasty stuff on the road in the winter, since it's dry all I really need to do is hose it off and it'll dry out nicely.

I think I'll have to ponder the idea of moving the motor forward a bit more. I'm certain that I won't get ALL of those benefits, as I'm sure that if the driveshafts fit just right, then the shift lever will be in a different spot, etc... I sure like the idea of duplicating what Toyota did at the factory (worked like a charm on the faux-lux), but if what they did was driven by easy of manufacture over efficiency in design, then I'm not so keen on duplicating it.

Good thing I'm at work on a four day trip, so I've got a lot of spare time to ponder this idea....

Dan

 

[crushers]

i highly doubt Toyota did this for "easy of manufacture" since easy for manufacture would be to move the engine ahead the 3"...

the ability of the Land Cruiser to perform so well off road is the balance of the weight... hint: take a F250 off road and a Land cruiser and you will see why more weight to the rear works so well...ballance my friend... less wheel hop, better traction both climbing and decending, better side hill control due to low center of gravity...

Toyota thought the Land Cruiser though: IH8MUD Forums - View Single Post - China passes Japan

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Nice theory and I would buy in but.........................

Take a FJ45 and F250 off road and see how they perform, you must admit pushing the rear axle back a couple feet makes even more of a difference.

I will not dispute centering the weight does allow for better traction from front and back axles, but compare apples to apples dear sir..

Edit, not to highjack but the rig performed well off road, no il effects of the motor moving forward a couple inches, of course this vehicle was built with daily driver and expedition in mind.

Rob

i highly doubt Toyota did this for "easy of manufacture" since easy for manufacture would be to move the engine ahead the 3"...

the ability of the Land Cruiser to perform so well off road is the balance of the weight... hint: take a F250 off road and a Land cruiser and you will see why more weight to the rear works so well...ballance my friend... less wheel hop, better traction both climbing and decending, better side hill control due to low center of gravity...

Toyota thought the Land Cruiser though: IH8MUD Forums - View Single Post - China passes Japan

 

[crushers]

Rob, have you forgotten i wheeled a FJ45 for years off road? i would put it up against a F250 any day any where...

my friend, i talk from decades of experience not speculation.

 

[Diesel42]

I think you need to get a sheet of 16 & 18 gauge. Not 20 gauge.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

I think you need to get a sheet of 16 & 18 gauge. Not 20 gauge.

Thank you!

I'm thinking the weight distribution question will give me the second chance to put my engineering degree to good use since I graduated 9 years ago. Last time I used it I designed a mounting for a gas tank on the old dump truck. Where'd I put my slide rule!?!?!

Dan

 

[crushers]

I found that 20 gauge is too light, 16 gauge is easy to weld with, 18 is nice to bend...

let me know what you come up with on the weight distribution side...i am interested. i remember reading, years ago, in a NA rag about how they were impressed with Toyota for the location of the main drivetrain... what mag and when is beyond me but that info stuck.

in all seriousness, it is your truck, build it the way you want.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

do you engineer for cars? Its the first time I heard! WoW

I am a trained airplane engineer. That said, engineering is engineering. The only job I ever held as an engineer was as an electrical, even though my degree has nothing to do with that. But one of my best childhood friends is a powertrain engineer for Nissan, and I'll probably see what he has to say on the matter too.

let me know what you come up with on the weight distribution side...i am interested. i remember reading, years ago, in a NA rag about how they were impressed with Toyota for the location of the main drivetrain... what mag and when is beyond me but that info stuck.

That's something that's always impressed me about Toyotas too. I think it's one of the reasons they are so well mannered off highway. Hopefully I'll be able to see just what the weight shift in switching from the 2F/H42 to the 3B/H55f is (I suspect it's rearward), and see what difference moving the combination forward a bit would have. It's easy to move the C.G. forward, I can always add a second battery or a winch, much harder to move it back.

I've got over 8 hours today to sit in a seat and twiddle my thumbs, so hopefully I can come up with some actual data on the question.

in all seriousness, it is your truck, build it the way you want.

That's precisely the problem. 1--it's Dad's truck, I'm just the world's awesomest son for doing the work for him. 2--that means I have to make a decision one way or the other, much easier if I'm just installing a kit or if it would only fit one way.

Dan

 

[crushers]

see where the bell housing mounts are on the frame? that is the same location for the bellhousing for the 3B install... what you can do is find a bellhousing from a 78 BJ40, they had the same mounts to support the rear and tranny. it was 79 that they went to the tranny mounted tranny support but the actual location of the drivetrain was identical.

get rid of the t/case mounted ebrake and go with a newer rear ebrake rear diff installed then you do not need to cut and move the crossmember. buy the original B/3B frame mounts for frame, locate the bellhousing in the same location...yes it is tight, that i know.

hanging the extra 3" of metal off the old style bell housing presents no problems since i did this to an old bush truck of mine and between jumping the poor thing, hanging the t/case off logs and just basicly beating the scat out of it, the bell housing never failed or even hairline cracked... they are TOUGH.
even if you just use the old style belhousing to line everything up and then install the newer crossmember, remove the old style bellhousing if you want and install the newer one... completely up to you.

this is all just suggestions of course.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Well, by my math, the effect of switching from the 2F/H42 to the 3B/H55f (both in the stock locations) is about the same as moving the 2F/H42 back between 3 and 5 inches, along with lightening the whole thing by 150 pounds or so.

Which is to say, that the effect of swapping from the 2F/H42 to the 3B/H55f is roughly the same as placing a five gallon water jug in the back of the truck.

I don't have truly accurate numbers on how much the 3B weighs versus the 2F, nor the 4 speed versus the 5 speed, but if I'm within a hundred pounds or so on either, then the numbers work out pretty much the same.

Since it handles pretty well off road now, I'm thinking that I should just move the engine/transmission forward to match the most forward of either the original driveshaft locations, or the shift tower. That would still locate the motor/transmission Center of Gravity in about the same place it is now, while not requiring the use of a really short (and vibration prone) rear driveshaft, or putting the shift lever into the seats. I will not move it farther forward than the current 2F/H42 center of gravity.

In all reality, I'll probably hoist the assembly into place, and see what's easiest to fabricate. I've got the factory BJ-40 motor mounts and brackets, as well as the 40 series/5 speed crossmember, so I can pretty easily locate it in the "correct spot," and then see how much work it would be to move it a bit back and forth.

Dan

 

[crushers]

the 3B and the 2F weigh in about the same
the H42 and the H55 will be different since one has the 3" extension as well as a larger 2 piece t/case.

so bolt it up and away you go... either configuration... i am curious as to any problems occure with moving it all ahead...

BTW, the shifter moves back 3" with the H55F and it doesn't end up between the seats... it is actually a bit more comfortable to shift...

 

[Ruadhrigh]

Dan,

I have a factory block-out plate for the radio. interested?

OK, time for pictures.

The radio cutout.... (oooh.... ahhhh.....)

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Dan,

I have a factory block-out plate for the radio. interested?

Probably. We'll chat when I get back, or maybe tomorrow. I'm kind of thinking of a hidden stereo that plugs into an iPod instead of the one that was there. A block-out plate would be just the ticket....

Dan

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Have you scraped the undercoat off the tub yet? If not, have you considered a heat gun or hand held torch to loosen it up? I've seen that work pretty well - still slow going though.

I'm watching this thread cause I have a the same swap going into my 45.

 

[crushers]

if it is the HARD undercoating then you can bang the upper side with a rubber mallet and it will fall off...
if it is the soft stuff then WOW!! i pity you...

 

[DanS HJ-45]

I haven't yet started scraping that junk off the bottom. I'm done with the stuff in the footwells though. I've got a heat gun, and a couple of torches, so we'll see how it goes.

In all reality though, I'll probably procrastinate dealing with that junk until I've at least tacked the motor mounts in place. It would feel like more progress to bolt the 3B in, and it would avoid me dealing with the undercoating for a while longer. None of the stuff on the bottom has fallen off yet from the banging on the topside though (to remove stuff, not particularly trying to knock underbody coating off--yet).

I'm up in Helena, Montana visiting my brother until after thanksgiving, so I'll hopefully be home on the 29th or so and back to work on it for a couple of days before I have to go slave away again at work...

Dan

 

[crushers]

Montana is one of my favorite States, people are friendly, country is beautiful...what more could you ask for?

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Montana is one of my favorite States, people are friendly, country is beautiful...what more could you ask for?

To have my company reopen our Denver base so I could move back here?!?! I was actually planning on it when they closed it, so as least I didn't move and THEN have to commute to Chicago, right?

I've lived in NM, CO, WA, AK, and MT (and I lived in IN for a while, but I hated it so much that I don't count it). Western MT is at the top of my list for places I'd like to "settle down" in.

Dan

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Well, I'm back from Montana. I've only got two more days before I have to head back to work (ick!), so I'm doing what I can to move things along....

Today I made a trip into town to buy some steel.
A 4x8 sheet of 16GA, and a 4x8 Sheet of 18GA (I had them both sheared to 4x4 to fit in my faux-lux). This should easily be enough to do Dad's 40 (this one), and my 45, with most of the 16GA to finish the bodywork on another project (a 1949 White). I love buying steel.

I also picked up 20' of 1" square tubing, 16GA wall. It was cheap, and I'm sure I'll find some use for it... I'm thinking tailgate for the 40 here...



When I got home, I got to wrenching a bit.

Removed the clutch master cylinder, brake booster and master(s), and the pedal box. That's fun stuff. Then I set to work pulling the wiring harness out of the tub.

With the wiring harness now out, I have learned some things:

1. Toyota Wiring rules (I just reminded myself of this, not new to me)
2. A PO at some point LOVED to splice with the stupid little crimp connectors and electrical tape.
3. The PO also liked to tap into existing circuits using those cheap splice things (don't know what they are called--I wouldn't use them)
4. The light in the "Lights" switch was out. I never realized it was supposed to light up.

I also took it upon myself to do some more investigating regarding the undercoating. It does NOT flake off when I hit the topside with a rubber mallet. Bummer.

The last little bit I did was to remove all the lines from the firewall that will not be used with the 3B. It might have only been one evap. canister line that ran just under the lip along the top of the firewall, but either way, this is all that should be there for the diesel...

I'm pretty sure I'll run a fuel line in it's place, as the fuel line for the FJ-40 runs along the right framerail, but the 3B needs the fuel on the left side for the IP. It's either that, or cross the fuel line under the body and come up the left frame rail to the IP. What did the BJ-40s do from the factory?

The exhaust will be run on the right side, outside the frame rail, and the idea of keeping the fuel line on the other side of the truck away from that (and the turbo in the engine compartment) kind of appeals to me.

Oh, here's the dash as I left it this evening...


Tomorrow I should start taking some paint off and getting to work on some bodywork, or at least getting started on getting a look at what I will need to do...

Also, I really need to call some folks about parts. I promised them I would, and I need some parts someday if I want to bolt the engine and transmission in.

Dan

 

[Awl_TEQ]

Progress, progress, progress................every little bit helps