Help me get the Heirloom to start! (1 Viewer)

[emac]

is the condensor hooked up?

 

[Heirloom]

I just reread one of your earlier posts, where you checked the static timing. With #1 at TDC, the points should be open, not closed.

This was my problem. I double checked all of the alignment issues I was having, and decided I may have stabbed the distributor off by 1 tooth on the drive gear. I reinstalled it one tooth over, verifying that the points were open at #1 alignment. I now have verified spark, and the engine coughs at me when I try to start it. Progress.

Mud is awesome. Thanks for the help. I'll tinker a little longer and let you know how it goes.

Also, since the cap and rotor don't physically touch at the spark plug wire terminals, my idea for verifying that there is a closed circuit using a multimeter didn't work.

 

[emac]

Great. Now you have spark at the plugs. Did you hook up the condensor? Rotate the dizzy some and try to start it. Once it fires you should be able to rotate the dizzy to smooth it out. Then check timing.

There is an air gap between the cap and rotor the spark jumps across.

 

[Heirloom]

is the condensor hooked up?

The distributor was reassembled according to the way it looked on disassembly. The condenser is grounded on the distributor body using the screws for the clamp that holds the cap on. The wire coming out of the condenser is screwed down to the plate under the condenser, common with the plate that the points are mounted on. This can be seen in the image I posted earlier today. Is that the correct configuration?

I got the timing light to flash on the timing marks. The engine started, but ran poorly and shortly died. I was so busy modulating the throttle to try to keep it running, there wasn't time for me to mess with the distributor. I'm getting closer.

 

[Heirloom]

If it isn't one thing, it's another. The ammeter opened my +12v chassis wiring, causing the fuse block and the ignition wiring to go dead.

I hot-wired the coil and got this to happen:


Now, I'm chasing what sounds like a mis-fire and trying to get the carburetor idle setting dialed in.

 

[Heirloom]

So far, everyone here has been extremely helpful. Thank you.

I can get the engine to idle (poorly) and rev up (poorly). When it is running, I get idle as low as 600 RPM, according to my dwell analyzer. Any lower, and she starts coughing and sputtering and eventually stalls. I current have all vacuum ports plugged, including the advance port on the carb.

My timing light indicates extremely retarded timing, and when I twist the distributor to get the marks aligned, the engine sputters out.

The good news is that I pulled the valve over and have oil everywhere.

I double checked all cylinders get a spark using my in-line spark plug light. I double checked the firing order. That seems ok. What would cause these symptoms?

I could swear I quadruple checked the cam timing before putting the cover on. Also, the rockers are both loose at #1 TDC for #1 valves, evidence that the cam is hopefully in time. I'll double check if all other tests eliminate other timing problems.

Any ideas?

 

[Shark56]

Just for sanity's sake. Switch your plug wires at the plugs. 1 to 6, 2 to 5...ect. that will let you know if you are 180 off.

 

[Heirloom]

I'll try swapping the plug wires. At least it will eliminate one possibility.

Other updates: I have about 20 inches of vacuum at 800 RPM "idle". I checked and double checked the breaker points statically. My dwell meter is registering in the intermediate scale when running, despite my best efforts to follow directions (can these old analyzers go bad?).

 

[db3]

The wire coming out of the condenser is screwed down to the plate under the condenser, common with the plate that the points are mounted on. This can be seen in the image I posted earlier today. Is that the correct configuration?

The blue wire from the condenser must be connected to the white wire on the points. I'm surprised the engine runs at all without the condenser connected. Once you get things sorted out, be sure to grease the rotor, but only use a small amount. Usually a tune up kit gives you a small capsule of grease. If not, use something like Lubriplate grease. If you don't, the points rubbing block wears quickly and the points gap closes, and eventually you will not get the engine started.

 

[Heirloom]

The blue wire from the condenser must be connected to the white wire on the points. I'm surprised the engine runs at all without the condenser connected. Once you get things sorted out, be sure to grease the rotor, but only use a small amount. Usually a tune up kit gives you a small capsule of grease. If not, use something like Lubriplate grease. If you don't, the points rubbing block wears quickly and the points gap closes, and eventually you will not get the engine started.

Clarification:

This is wrong:

Because the blue wire needs to be attached to the other side of the points? Attached to the distributor terminal? It might reach that far.

The advance plate on the distributor has a threaded hole and a screw that has no purpose, if I remove the condenser from the previously installed location. Replacing that screw without the condenser eyelet basically freezes the movement of all three timing advance mechanisms.

Also, I don't have lubriplate. I have synthetic bearing grease (high temp), moly-infused wheel bearing grease (high pressure), or anti-sieze. Which is most appropriate?

 

[db3]

Most condenser leads I dealt with had a side opening forked terminal, which simply slipped over the post or screw on the points where the lead from the coil was connected. This allowed installing the terminal without having to remove the mounting hardware. Dropping a screw or nut down into the dizzy is no fun to retrieve. You obviously have a standard ring terminal, which I would cut and reform into a forked terminal. The condenser case needs to be grounded, which the post mounting on the side of the dizzy provides. If the blue lead from the condenser is not long enough to reach the points terminal, it can be connected to the incoming post. Just loosen the nuts to give room to slip it next to the connector on the white wire going to the points. If you do connect it to the points, make sure it doesn't limit the advance movement. My 76 had a 2f engine with a semi-electronic ignition, which could be returned to a conventional system if the ignitor failed. As I recall, the 'emergency' condenser was mounted on the outside of the dizzy! Don't know about the unused screw hole, but obviously the advance plate must be free to move. As for grease, a good quality white grease will work, just don't use too much.

 

[Heirloom]

I'm looking at my picture without the condenser, and the way it was previously hooked up had the condenser grounded on the distributor body, and also had the terminal for the condenser grounded on the advance plate... Both are on the same side of the points.

If I move the condenser terminal to the points terminal, the condenser body is grounded on the distributor body, and the terminal is mounted across the points to the coil signal wire (insulated from ground when points are open).

I guess I need to look up how a condenser works in full detail. Thanks for the info, maybe this is my running problem.

 

[Heirloom]

It seems I am going to try exactly what db3 recommended. This youtube video screenshot was invaluable:

 

[Heirloom]

With the condenser connected as described in db3's post above, the engine starts immediately, idles smooth and low, and runs smoothly. I was able to set timing to factory settings, where it ran even better.

Thanks for the help. I did snip the eyelet to function like a forked terminal.