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Front Main Seal Advice 20R

Discussion in '79-95 Toyota Truck Tech' started by tomcolins, Feb 27, 2010.

  1. tomcolins

    tomcolins Regular Member

    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Marfa, Texas
    My main seal (just behind the crank pulley) is leaking more and more. I went and ordered a new seal from NAPA. The parts counter guys said I needed to take the timing cover off and replace all the associated gaskets etc... and sold me a whole kit.

    Thing is, it doesn't look like the timing cover needs to come off. I did this repair years ago on a 1st gen. 4runner with a 22re and I definitely did not have to take the cover off, just pried the seal out and drove a new one in. Crank pulley back on, no worries.

    Can someone verify that I can get the seal out easily without disassembling the whole thing... Eg, all I need to do is take out the radiator, maybe take the fan off for easier access , and pull the crank pulley to get at the seal?

    Thanks-

    DB
  2. 2ndGenToyotaFan

    2ndGenToyotaFan Ice-Bound Moderator

    Messages:
    8,816
    Location:
    It's complicated....
    You are correct, you may not even need to pull the rad, but it will make it easier... pull the pulley, remove and replace seal... Done...
  3. KLF

    KLF Frame waxer SILVER Star

    Messages:
    5,334
    Location:
    Southern NH
    Take everything back to NAPA, tell the guy there is is full of crap, then go to Toyota and get an OEM seal. Aftermarket seals are not as good.

    You might wanna consider also replacing the big o-ring in the oil pump, it's really easy, and the seal is easier to R&R with the oil pump on the bench.
  4. tomcolins

    tomcolins Regular Member

    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Marfa, Texas
    Thanks Y'all. If it doesn't rain, I'll be doing it tomorrow. I'll keep you posted.

    As to Toyota parts, I guess I could order one but I live VERY far away from civilization. I think the closest dealer is in Midland, Tx or El Paso both of which are three and a half hours from here.

    I will tell NAPA that I didn't need the whole kit and maybe trade the difference for a couple of cans of degreaser!
  5. Mike C

    Mike C New Member

    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I replaced mine on my 22re, same thing though. Took 30 minutes, taking my sweet time cleaning everything as I went. Also went inside to check torque numbers on the computer a couple times. And I ended up having to do the job twice, as I found out it was also leaking out of the pressure relief valve. I had to tighten that down, it was loose.

    Both times, I used the starter bump trick to remove the crank bolt. I couldn't break it loose with just a breaker bar on its own.
  6. pappy

    pappy photosynthesizing Moderator

    Messages:
    6,927
    Location:
    Palm trees and cool streams
    What he said. Sometimes I find it easier to pull the oil pump off to replace the seal anyways. I always seem to have trouble getting the seal out without nicking something, then getting the seal in straight. It's real easy with the oil pump off, but does require the o-ring and a bit more time.
  7. tomcolins

    tomcolins Regular Member

    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Marfa, Texas
    Did this last week after much procrastinating. Took the forum's advice and replaced the oil pump O ring as well. See, good thing those bums at NAPA sold me a whole gasket kit! right there in the box. Now no oil leak!

    I was a little concerned I got the gears in upside down but took a close look at the FSM photos and looked like only ONE of the arrows etched into the gears was visible (ie, the inner small one faces up [towards the block], the arrow on the outer big one lays down [towards the crank pulley] and is not visible). Didn't look directional, so maybe no big deal either way... Let me know if I'm way off?

    It whined a little at first but after 500 miles, seems to have settled in. No oil in sight.

    thanks for all your help!
  8. theboomboom

    theboomboom New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I believe I have an oil leak in the same place you did tomcolins on my '82 22r, could you describe the process for the work you did in a little more detail? From what I gather you remove the pulley then replace the seal... but it sounds like you removed the oil pump too and replaced the seal? What was the reasoning behind that?

    Just lookin to get a little educated :)
  9. KLF

    KLF Frame waxer SILVER Star

    Messages:
    5,334
    Location:
    Southern NH
    Relatively sure those arrows are supposed to be on the same side.

    [​IMG]

    Maybe the 20R is different.
  10. tomcolins

    tomcolins Regular Member

    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Marfa, Texas
    Well, the seal is in the oil pump housing, which is clearly shown in the follow-up post showing where the arrows on the gears are, and where I did it backwards (maybe). But it is on the other side of the assembly shown in the photo.

    It is a lot easier to either drive or pry out the seal with the housing on a bench or in a vice (careful, it's aluminum). Also much easier to push the seal back in, rather than hanging down into the engine compartment or reaching up getting crud in your eyes.

    Also, i figured at others' suggestion that while i was in there it was a pretty good idea to replace a simple O ring, considering the work undertaken to get so close to it, and considering, it may have been suspect in the oil leakage itself. And I was in possession of a new one, even if a sub par NAPA brand:p

    There is an O ring that mates between the pump housing and the timing cover. It sits in a machined grove (not very well) It wants to drop out. I found a bit of oil slathered on there helped mine stay put. The drive gears for the oil pump fit neatly together and make for a pretty precise fit. If something is binding up, it ain't right. But it all goes together pretty smoothly.

    I don't have my camera handy, but I will post a few pictures from the manual showing the exploded diagram as soon as I can.

    It helps to take the radiator and fan clutch out, though folks have said it may not be necessary. Working space is nice. Busted knuckles suck.

    This is not hard repair, but it did take me more than 30 min as has been suggested. I'd give yourself a few hours. Good luck!
  11. tomcolins

    tomcolins Regular Member

    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Marfa, Texas

    Attached Files:


  12. tomcolins

    tomcolins Regular Member

    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    Marfa, Texas
    Here are some photos showing how it all comes apart.

    Attached Files:

  13. KLF

    KLF Frame waxer SILVER Star

    Messages:
    5,334
    Location:
    Southern NH
    Well, truthfully I'm not sure the orientation of the "driven" gear matters. It is flat on both sides, there doesn't appear to be a taper or bevel angle on the teeth, so it probably can go in either way. Every time I have removed them the arrows were facing the timing cover, so that's how I've always installed them.
  14. ntsqd

    ntsqd technerd

    Messages:
    4,712
    Location:
    Upper So. CA
    I've noticed that there tends to be two different types of seals sold in the aftermarket. A black one that is very plastically feeling and I had dismal results with one. Maybe 300 miles at the most. The other is sort of rusty red in color and feel more like silicone. I got much better life out of it, but I'm still going to have to replace it too after maybe 40k miles. The crank pulley already has a Speedi-Sleeve on it and the seal is fully riding on it and not the edge. I'm going to try an OE seal from Cruiser Dan next.
  15. Hilux

    Hilux New Member

    Messages:
    2,163
    Location:
    Nashville Tn.
    The last time I tried to get a front main/ oil pump timing cover seal at the dealer, they gave me a seal about a 1/4 inch, OR LESS, wide and said the original seal had been discontinued... they were adamant that was the seal for it...

    Something that new and untested, I felt unconfident in it and didn't take it and got a FelPro set and got the seal from it... I also didn't like the idea of all that dead space behind the pulley...

    Something that occurred to me later was I could prolly stack a few behind there instead of just one of the wide original seal... :meh:

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