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FJZ80 start/stop problem

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by mpolatov, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. mpolatov

    mpolatov

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    Hi!

    I have strange problem with my '97 FJZ80

    How it began:

    1. Car did not start, it was just some click (starter?) and nothing happend.
    2. After several tries it started.
    3. I turned car off and tried to start again.
    4. It started with some high frequency noise, A.T oil/temp, oil temp and brake indicators came in.
    5. I saw kind of smoke came from starter.

    Now when I try to turn car off (key in position 'lock'), it looks like something (maybe starter?)
    still tries to spin the engine (with terrible noise), so finally I cannot switch car off at all!!!

    I ended up with disconected battery because this is only way to stop engine spinning.
    When I am connecting back battery and key still in position lock (or no key inserted at all)
    it still tries to spin engine.

    Any ideas what the problem is?

    Regards,
    Misha

    PS: actually, I did not expect something like that from TLC at 76K miles...
     
  2. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Thou has toasted thy starter. Hopefully that's all. Somebody else(sorry can't remember who) had the same thing happen a while back. He may or may not have done his alternator in as well.
     
  3. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Misha,
    C-Dan's diagnosis is correct. Your starter contacts have failed. The good news is that the repair might be inexpensive and easy for a DIY guy (best case.) Worst case is that the starter is toast and the alternator is fried. We don't see the worst case very often but it can happen.

    The best thing is *not* to reconnect the battery until the starter is fixed. I know you are new to this forum so let us know if you are unsuccessful in searching for the prior threads that explain the repair procedure. (Search on "Starter contacts" in the 80/100 section.) The cost of parts should be around $25 US. Where are you located?

    If you are uncomfortable doing this repair yourself, the dealer will likely recommend a remanufactured starter. You may be able to get an independent mechanic to do the repair of the starter contacts.

    The starter contacts are a common wear item at around 90-100k miles though some fail sooner. The failure is more dependent on "start cycles" than on mileage. Don't get concerned about this, many/most of us have had to repair our starters.

    (Later...)
    I forgot to add that you can do a trail fix to get it going. Depends on where you are, how badly you need the truck, and how long it will take to get the parts. You can also source the parts from local starter repair places and/or auto parts houses if you don't have a Toyota dealer close by.

    -B-
     
  4. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr SILVER Star

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  5. mpolatov

    mpolatov

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    Thanks for reply!

    I'm located in Iowa City.

    Actually I can do almost of work by myself, I had thoughts that it's starter...
    But I just wondering why I cannot turn car off? Is it because starter contacts fried?

    Regards
    Misha
     
  6. Eduardo96FZJ80

    Eduardo96FZJ80

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    :eek:
    Not to sound like ckicken little, but $ 25 bucks sounds like cheap insurance. Is the failure in the engaged position common??

    We had some fleet vechicles here that actually started on fire when the starters failed in the engaged position.

    Brent was there any indication (warning signs) before the failure??
     
  7. Brentbba

    Brentbba Former Golfer SILVER Star

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    Misha,

    The poor sap Dan couldn't remember was me. You have definetly fried your starter and probably your alternator as well as Dan and Beo have stated. Dealer replaced both with rebuilts to the tune of around $1200 as I recall, about half parts and half labor. Battery had been drained as well but it held a charge.

    Good luck!
     
  8. yomama

    yomama

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    Sounds like alternator as well since you said it would not shut off untill you pulled the battery. The alternator should have kept it running when you pulled the battery. Sorry for the bad news :'(
    It is interesting to me why it would not shut off with the key, must be some function of the starter/solenoid.

    Yomama
     
  9. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    >> Not to sound like ckicken little, but $ 25 bucks sounds like cheap insurance. <<

    It's a little work, approx 3 hrs for a DIY guy, but it is cheap insurance. If your truck is approaching 90k miles with the original starter then do yourself a favor. It's a much easier job in your own garage instead of a parking lot.

    >> But I just wondering why I cannot turn car off? <<
    >> Is it because starter contacts fried? <<

    You'll see why when you get it open. Basically, the plunger welds to the +12v and -12v contacts inside the starter. Normally this plunger only touches the contacts when it is energized (i.e. turn the key) What happens is that the plunger can get stuck, passing 12v continually through the starter. The only way to interrupt the voltage flow is to remove a battery cable.

    It is not a tough job *if* the starter and the alternator are repairable. The typical symptom is that the starter doesn't engage when the key is turned. Click, click. Then you try it again and it works fine. This is the first warning sign and time to buy the contacts and schedule a few hours with your truck. Some people can go weeks in this scenario; some pound the starter with a BFH to release the plunger. Enevitably it will fail when you need it the most.

    Cross your fingers and hope all is well.
    -B-
     
  10. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Brent,

    Sorry, I forgot your pain :-[ .

    Misha,

    Beo is spot on. If you pull the cover on the solonoid you will see the plunger literally welded to the contacts. I fear your alternator may also be toast. I don't know if I would trust the rest of the starter. It had a helluva lot of current passing thru it and the armature could be compromised as well.

    STARTER, REMAN: 28100-66060-84, list $217.21 exchg.

    ALTERNATOR, REMAN: 27060-66070-84, list $333.23 exchg.
     
  11. semlin

    semlin rocker

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    Don't knock the old ways wulfman, the BFH applied judiciously on the starter got me across this great country and back across yours in a VW bus automatic once with only 3 replacement starters! However, I can also attest that starters will always finally fail in a small town where the nearest parts delivery is 75 miles away and it's Friday evening at 5 pm, so carry a spare starter if this starts happening.
     
  12. mpolatov

    mpolatov

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    Thanks guys for advice, I got them!

    Just couple more questions...

    Is there easy way to check what needs to be done?
    I mean is it just starter contacts or whole starter needs to be replaced?
    Same for alternator, how can I check that it is fried? Since I cannot check volatage, maybe resistance will tell something?

    Regards,
    Misha

    PS: what type of starter I have (FJZ80 '97)? 1.4 or 2 or 2.2 kw?
     
  13. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Most US vehicles have the 2.0 kw starter. You can use either one when replacing a bad unit. If you are going with contacts, you will need to know which starter you have.
    '93 is the only year to use the 2.2 kw unit. The 1.4 kw was used 93-97 and the 2.0 kw 94-97.

    A foil tag on the field coil identifies the starter:

    1.4 kw 28100-66040
    2.0 kw 28100-66060
    2.2 kw 28100-66050

    If a -84 appears on the end, the starter is a reman unit and has been replaced at least once.