FJ60 "Classic Stumbling Issue" - EGR Valve?

Discussion in '60-Series Wagons' started by scottcb, Mar 20, 2010.

  1. scottcb

    scottcb

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Phoenix Metro, Arizona, USA
    After some other posts regarding the classic FJ60 stumbling issue that is referenced on this forum - http://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-w...-hesitating-acceleration-running-problem.html, I pulled out my EGR valve today to clean it out and inspect it. After the very slow removal (tight area) I looked it over and cleaned it out with some spray. I am no mechanic (but play one on my landcruiser) and the valve seemed to be working fine when some vacum was applied, the diaphram seems to be working properfly and the "pin"? insides moves up and down freely with vacum.

    Some background - I corrected to stumbling issue by unhooking the 2 hoses that come from the EGR, plugged them with golf tees (as recommended) and the issue was "fixed" no more stumbling issues. That is why I pulled out the EGR to see if that is the issue.

    I put it all back together and hooked connected all vacum hoses as they should be. THE ISSUE RETURNED. Unhooked the 2 hoses from the EGR, plugged them and I'm running good again (except I know golf tees are not a good long term fix).

    My question for anyone with experience chasing this issue down - Even though the EGR looked good, could it be bad still? Or is the EGR MOD my new suspect since the hoses that are plugged normally run to the MOD?

    Thanks for the help in advance. You guys have been great in helping me run this down. I was laughing today thinking about how much I am able to do on my cruiser with no skills, just lots of reading on this forum. This addiction is great.
  2. fj60seeker

    fj60seeker

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I am in the same boat as you- have the classic stumble and not yet found a fix- I learned never to travel with a full cup of coffee :)
  3. Joe_E

    Joe_E

    Messages:
    3,305
    Location:
    the NJ word..
    My suggestion would be start with a professional carb rebuild with someone like Jim C if you have the original Aisin carb.
  4. VETTE60

    VETTE60

    Messages:
    1,250
    Location:
    Pollock Pines,CA
    Mine was the Dashpot on the carbureator. check it out. but I solved the problem for good with a fuel injected 383!!! seriously though I had the classic stumble and the dashpot was the culpret.
  5. LAMBCRUSHER

    LAMBCRUSHER

    Messages:
    4,177
    Location:
    there and then
    EGR opens too soon. Weak diaphram? I'm thinkin new valve.?. Weak diaphram= opens at lower vacuum point-I think
  6. fj60seeker

    fj60seeker

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I am afraid to ask what this rebuild would cost? Any ideas?

    Thanks for the suggestions, gotta work this out because the stumble is driving me nuts.
  7. saucebox

    saucebox Miscreant

    Messages:
    647
    Location:
    Smaug
    The rebuild isn't unreasonable, IIRC. FJ40Jim on the forum here does it (Jim C) and so does Mark Algazy (can't remember his handle here). I think it's under a couple of bills, but they're both easy to contact to find out for sure.
  8. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot

    Messages:
    256
    The unfortunate thing is you prolly will never stop the stumbling. I stopped mine, desmog! The real problem is that at lower speeds the EGR tends to hunt for a appropriate position and never quite seems to be the right one. I've changed EGR's but to no avail, you can come close but never 100%.
  9. Bandicoot

    Bandicoot

    Messages:
    256
    Oh I forgot to mention, the best you can do is place a small steel bearing in the vac line out the top of the EGR modulator, this will disable it and allow the truck to run as good as it can. Take it out on smog check day and place it back in when you leave.
  10. fj60seeker

    fj60seeker

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I really appreciate the advice- if a rebuilt carb and some desmog love will at least help the issue then I am happy. At the moment is a sever jerk at about 2000rpm and its driving me nuts. I had a mechanic tell me the same, you can improve it bt it may never go away.
    Sad thing is, I have some oil leaks to deal with first- oil pan for sure, maybe rear main. Need to do some cleaning and watching to be absolutely sure. THanks again for pointing me in the right direction-
    Cheers~
    Jim
  11. scottcb

    scottcb

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Phoenix Metro, Arizona, USA
    Dashpot

    Can someone show me a picture of the dashpot, or a diagram? I'm not sure what it looks like, but assume it is on or near the carb. Thanks.

  12. hank14

    hank14 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    2,202
    Location:
    Texas
    This can be fixed- I did it in mine by going through the emissions factory service manual. I had to replace a vacuum control valve, clean out the EGR modulator, and I rebuilt the carb myself (but would have been better spending the $300 for the professional carb rebuild).

    If you don't have the emissions manual from Toyota, get it and work through it front to back.
  13. fj60seeker

    fj60seeker

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Portland, OR

    Thanks man, I am glad to hear it can be repaired. I ordered the emissions FSM emissions manual a couple of weeks ago- should be here any day(I hope).
    The Haynes manual is not very helpful....
    Cheers~~
  14. gsdog2

    gsdog2

    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Murrieta, Ca.
    Classic Stumbling Finally Fixed!

    I'm certainly no expert, but I bet I can recite the damn emissions manual back to front. I've been dealing with a ****py running rig since the start (4 years now maybe?!). Had some 'mechanics' look at it over the past and might as well just pissed the cash away (Yes, probably thousands of dollars for nuthin!) Well, over the past 6-8 months I looked over every aspect of the engine, which was rebuilt in '05, along with the carb, supposedly. Here's what I finally did to wrap it all up:

    - Replace every damn vacuum hose with new (just get a 40Ft. roll of 3 or 3.5mm silicone from Mcmaster-Carr and be done with it.). Can't stress this enough.

    - You probably have a cracked intake right under the carb, take that baby off and have a good aluminum welder weld it. Replace diverter plate with SOR plate (Need to trim the diverter valve, I have pics.). While the intake is off, take it apart and replace the gaskets; exhaust horn gaskets as well. Use an OEM intake/exhaust gasket (I had my manifold straightened up by a machine shop so I was able to use OEM.

    - Buy the emissions manual and a vacuum gauge. Check every valve and switch. I had just about all valves and switches bad. easy to do.

    - Find a new or get a used EGR valve. I found a good used one from SOR. Find a new or good used EGR modulator; I bought one from SOR and, although they stated it was for the 60; it allowed too much vacuum.

    - Take the ABV apart (I had to drill and retap the bolts) and get all the smog pump vane pieces, which get sucked up in it, out of there. Check to see the valves hold vacuum.

    - GET A GOOD TUNE-UP BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS LANDCRUISERS! And make sure the valves are adjusted correctly. Mine were out of whack; got new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc, etc.

    - Once you get it all back together, check and recheck for vacuum leaks. Then......

    - MAKE SURE THE 4 VACUUM LINES ON THE BACK OF THE CARB ARE ROUTED CORRECTLY! I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY 'MECHANICS' GOT THIS WRONG. IT WILL CAUSE STUMBLING IF ROUTED INCORRECTLY.

    - HAVE SOMEONE WHO KNOW HOW TO REBUILD LANDCRUISER CARBS, REBUILD THE CARB! Unfortunately, I sent mine to MarkA, and $400 later, it was still not rebuilt properly and still had the Classic Stumble (For the money I spent on people not rebuilding the carb properly, I could have bought a brand new one, I had it in my hand at SOR!)

    Frustrated, constantly broke, throwing money at it to no avail, wife punching me in the face (JK), swearing I would never let anyone touch the cruiser again, I broke down and brought it over to "JIM DICKEY Landcruiser Repair" in Gardena, Ca. After a full tune-up and another carb rebuild........:bounce2:!!!!!

    Starts on a friggin dime! Smooooooth accelleration through the whole rpm range; I even got scared stopped at a light since I can't hardly feel it idling (ok, well you know what I mean compared to before.) and I can even feel the secondaries kicking in. I was going to sell her, since I recently picked up an 80 series, but I think I'll keep her.

    So the 'classic stumbling' saga for me is over.
  15. fj60seeker

    fj60seeker

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    OK, so the FSM Emissions manual Finally arrived and after 3 hours of tracing hose (yes thats a funny word no matter what context its used) I made several corrections and the stumble is gone. The PO had bypassed the EGR by running tubing in circles and really looked like he was just plugging **** in where he could. Anyways, thanks for all your posts and guidance- engine performance is greatly improved.
    Cheers~
  16. hank14

    hank14 SILVER Star

    Messages:
    2,202
    Location:
    Texas
  17. fj60seeker

    fj60seeker

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Hahaha, damn funny and thanks! Glad to be moving on to the gas leak/fume issue now :)
    some great posts about that issue, so hope it will not be too difficult.


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