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FJ40 Distributor - Wrong Vacuum Advance???

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by berntd, Jun 20, 2007.

  1. berntd

    berntd

    Messages:
    138
    Hi,

    I hope someone can help me. My late 81 FJ40 with 2F was fitted with the emission control system.
    The distributor vacuum unit is now faulty and I wanted to get a new one. The sales guy (not Toyota) said there are 2 types, one that can adjust manually and one that can't. I mailed him pics and he told me a need the non adjustable one.

    I now have this unit here but I can see that its vacuum connection seems on the oppsite side of the diaphragm. When I suck it, the plunger moves into the vacuum tin.

    On my original one, it appears as if the plunger should move out of the vacuum tin. I told the sales guy this and he said that doesn't matter it is all the same, as long as it fits.

    I find this hard to believe as the original unit would retard the ignition (if I am correct) and the new one would advance it with increasing vacuum.

    I cannot find any reference in my manuals whether this should push out or in for my exact setup but I really need to know.

    Can anhgone please tell me what is what in if there was a change from advance to retard? How can I find out?
    Toyota was most unhelpful and they cannpot sell me a new unit without it coming from Japan.

    Kind regards
    Bernt
  2. JasonH

    JasonH

    Messages:
    2,003
    Location:
    McKinney, Texas
    It does make a difference. The last time I checked, the one you want is no longer available from Toyota.
    Get a hold of Jim Chenoweth and ask him. He'll probably know the part number you need off the top of his head.
  3. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

    Messages:
    17,861
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    81 shoudl be a vac advance dizzy (and fully electronic) It sounds like your dealer guy is looking up the older (adjustable vac advance and non adjustable vac retard points style) dizzys. Has he shown you a pic of the parts?
  4. Coolerman

    Coolerman SILVER Star

    Messages:
    4,731
    Location:
    Paint Lick, KY
    You SURE the dizzy you have installed is a 1981? The 1981 should have a LARGE cap held on by three screws and as Mace said be all electronic.
  5. berntd

    berntd

    Messages:
    138
    Hi and thanks for the help.

    It is an 81 according to the papers. It had a complete Emmision control system fitted which has since been removed.
    I am in Australia and I am not sure what distributor types were popular here and neither does anybody else I know.

    The distributor looks original (as far as the wire conenctors and stuff go) and it has points and condenser. There is no manual adjustment on it. the original vacuum can seems to retard with more vacuum (pushes plunger out). the cap is held on with 2 clips.

    I have pics but I am not sure how to post them here.

    Please help because I cannot return the new can if I keep it too long.

    Kind regards
    Bernt
  6. berntd

    berntd

    Messages:
    138
    in short, how do I convert from retard to advance? The vacuum hose is currently connected to a port on the carb near the mixture screw. Where would I need to move it to so that I can use an advance instead of retard tin?

    regards
    Bernt
  7. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

    Messages:
    11,274
    Location:
    OC, CA
    Toyota made a lot of different distributors for the F/2F and they may be different in the US and in OZ.

    Pictures would be necessary to be sure what you have. Toyota made vacuum actuators that pull in or push out in response to vacuum and they made ones that can do both. Either direction could be advance or retard depending on which distributor.

    Generally the distributors that have the vacuum advance closest to the firewall advance when they pull in.
  8. 65swb45

    65swb45

    Messages:
    13,028
    Location:
    so cal, going 45
    berntd, first of all, you are correct about your understanding which way the diaphram is supposed to move, and your parts man is simply an idiot for telling you what he said.:rolleyes:

    Second, your distributor is a lot more like our early US distributors, which we also refer to as NON US distributors when they are installed in post 1968 Landcruisers. That is the main source of confusion regarding the responses you have recieved. Your 1981 non-US speced dizzy could very well still have points in it, much like the firetruck dizzy I sold Mace earlier this year.

    Chances are the vacuum advance diaphram Nardek offers would work for you. I don't have the link handy, but a quick thread search using their name should bring it up for you.

    Best

    Mark A.
  9. berntd

    berntd

    Messages:
    138
    Hi Mark

    Thank you very much for that.
    The replacement advance I have here is ineed from Nardek and it is a ?-926. That is the wrong way round according to my findings and they are not able to supply anything more suitable.

    Don't get me wrong, it fits onto the distributor - no problem but it works the wrong way round.

    However, if someone could tell me where the advance should be connected on the carby (instead of the retard) then I could use this new unit and connect the hose so that it will work correctly with the advancer.

    Where is the correct connectio for an advance unit on the carb?

    Kind regards
    Bernt
  10. 65swb45

    65swb45

    Messages:
    13,028
    Location:
    so cal, going 45
    IF it works the wrong way around, then how do you surmise that ANY vacuum source would be suitable?

    Consider. In the US, we also had a vacuum RETARD diaphram from 1969 thru 1976. Engaged, it retarded the timing. In theory, you would hook a retarding devise up to the secondary so that in would not engage until you were under a heavy load. Engaging the secondaries is not always being under a heavy load tho.

    You REALLY only want to retard the timing when you are under the HEAVIEST loads, going uphill, when predetonation becomes an issue. IT is precisely at this point [heaviest load] when vacuum is usually INSUFFICIENT to create a signal for the diaphram, thus negating its usefulness.

    Capiche?

    Best

    Mark A.
  11. berntd

    berntd

    Messages:
    138
    Hi mark and forum!

    I am not sure or else I would not require help.

    All I know is that I can get another distributor that has an adjustable advance on it but I don't now where the advance should be connected on the engine.

    So far nobody has answered that question, unless it is so obvious that I am missing it.

    Maybe I need to start another thread for that question?


    Kind regards
    bernt

  12. 65swb45

    65swb45

    Messages:
    13,028
    Location:
    so cal, going 45
    THAT is a MUCH EASIER question! You focused on a defective advancer...therefore, so did I.

    Vacuum advance should be onthe primary side of the carb [facing the valve cover, in the same general location as the idle mixture screw. If you are working with a non-US carb, then chances are it is already ported.

    The port will have NO VACUUM at idle, but should start showing vacuum somewheres between 1000-1400 rpm, give or take.

    Best

    Mark A.
  13. jeepguy

    jeepguy

    Messages:
    1
    more info required

    i'v been getting info from this site since 2003 when co=worker needed help with his 1979 fj 40. it got lifted,power steering,sm420 with your style shifter, rear dick brake plate info also came from your site. now the heart of that rig was put into a 69 rust bucket that is going through the same changes. need the simpest way to make vac advance, choke pull off and secondary work. have a diagram for stock 2f but it has metal lines shown and many other missing parts
  14. desertpat

    desertpat

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    Southern Ontario, Canada
    Non USA Vacuum

    Bernt,

    I have a non-USA set up in my '83 FJ-40 composing of vac advance carb (p/n 21100-61012) and dizzy (p/n 19100-61080 or 19100-61010) - my invoice shows 2 numbers for the dizzy and I don't have the box handy to see the correct p/n???

    Both are over the counter items here in Saudi - carb cost is US $240.00 and dizzy is $135.00 (sorry if I break your heart with these prices - they are after a 25% discount, which Toyota gives on all new old stock)

    The dizzy has good old fashioned points and my cruiser starts and runs great.

    The vacuum hose attaches to the base of the carb just below the slow mixture screw (1/2" or so) and about the same distance toward the front of the engine.
    I hope this helps.
  15. berntd

    berntd

    Messages:
    138
    Hi Mark an group.

    Thanks for all the help so far. Hopefully I will eventually get something working.
    The advance distributor is no longer an option as the guy sold it while I was pondering over it :-( :-(

    I will now try fit the new advance can I have to my exisitng distributor which currently has a broken retard can on it.

    The retard can did originally connect exactly where you said, near the mixture screw. That connection is indeed ported and I measured it at some stage.

    There are 2 connector nipples on the back of the carb near the mixture screw. they are sort of side by side.

    I just read some general (non Toyota) article about vac advance vs retard and what they do. It mentions that retard needs ported vacuum and advance direct vacuum.
    Is this correct?
    If so, are the carbs "wired" differently for retard and advance models?
    Do I have to change carbs if I want the advance to work or is there a way to change the port to direct instead of ported?

    I am still lost.


    Kind regards
    Bernt

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