Entering the world of the PTO (1 Viewer)

[love2fly]

I just purchased a stock Toyota PTO for my 1982 non US FJ45 with the non USA trans split case. Well you guessed it I am going to be in need of a split case PTO G/B. I willing to hang in there and keep looking I am just asking if any of you have any spare PTO items that you would consider selling please PM me. Other than the G/B I will be in need of the shafts and pillows., and linkage. (I know good luck)
I have had the electric winch but was not very happy with the problems that came with them. so I am looking forward to using a PTO.
Any parts -thanks

 

[Living in the Past]

Just to clear this up you have a PTO winch and in need of the PTO and drivelines? I think by G/B you mean gear box. That what the PTO is and not referred to as PTO gear box simply PTO. These parts show in the US just not very often. Pretty sure Canada got PTO winches in the 6X series not sure single or two direction but being from the 60 series would have a PTO for a split transfer case. If the driveline could be modified not sure but might be better than nothing. There were two different driveline setups used on the 4X series with split T case. Earlier of the two had one pillow block bearing and long driveline. Later had two pillow block bearings. 82s I've seen didn't have the holes for the second bearing. Doing a little online parts searching I think 83+ used the later style. Possible to use the later on the earlier by drilling and tapping the frame which is what I plan to do. The shifters are different too depending on model and market I'm guessing. Cable style bolted to the frame while push button bolted to the transmission. Both mine are push button and the mounting brackets were different depending on transmission and if single or two direction on the PTO. Might start a wanted ad in the classified section. The PTO might not be to bad to ship internationally but length of drivelines might cost more. But if your in a hurry that might be the quickest option. Could also try some of the bigger specialty shops. I got lucky and got mine out of a wreck about ten miles away. It was like finding hens teeth having one show up in AZ.

Good luck with your search.

 

[love2fly]

Yep I am new to the Stock Toyota winch and its assembly and with your information and others also I am getting schooled on the PTO. I already have the PTO winch itself, but I need the PTO- power take off gearbox split case style (shown), the part that's going to be a trick to find, but as I just started looking I know in time I will find what I need its just getting the right information from folks like you. I not sure about the 60 series split case PTO G/B I have seen bits of information with reference to the use of them with the 40 series but really do not have a clear picture of that yet. Would be nice.
I have been looking at the inside of my 45 frame to establish pillow block locations that the factory may of installed while on the assembly line and it looks like two areas that maybe the locations for the pillow blocks to be mounted but of course this is just speculation as I do not have the dimensions of the mounts themselves , I will need to get all of that information in order to construct what I need as I feel they will be just as hard to find as the G/B itself.
I have found one G/B in Australia on the Ebay but the postage was insane but by the time I was going to commit, yep it was gone.
So yes I have a long way to go but if I take it slow it will be all good in the end. I am just now stripping the winch down to rebuild it with new seals and maybe bearings if needed. So that will keep me out of the bars for a while.
I would really like to see your work and parts on your PTO project as I said I can use all the information I can find on the PTO build and parts and maybe some others that are contemplating taking this type of project on.
Maybe if you would post pictures of the pillow block mount hole dimensions/design for reference for a possible build of one or two if you would. That will be the next part of the project along with a continuing search for that G/B case.
I will take what I can find but not to concerned at this point on the shafts as I have a friend that works on farm equipment and he has all the right stuff to custom make a PTO shafts and maybe the yokes.
With that said thank you very much for your information and time.






The case/G/B

 

[shelfboy1]

get an owners manual on the operation of the pto winch ,unless you drill the shear pin and upgrade it the pto will be useless in any hard pull and will leave you stranded .that said my pto has pulled stuff that would seem impossible to some people.

 

[Living in the Past]

Shear is the weakest link by design. I've always carry spare shear pins and never left me stranded. But being in the Southwest not dealing with mud. Easier to figure a way get unstuck than by the winch alone when your not wading in mud. While my collection of PTO winches isn't as larger as Shelfboy I do have some that have the hole for the shear pin drilled out which is very common and failures to other parts of the PTO system rare because of it. It won't be a bad idea to carry the blank cover and some gar oil. If the shear pin were to break and didn't a spare it would prevent the cruiser from running. If the housing for the PTO split yo would have hard tim keeping oil in the transfer case.


I have both styles of split case PTOs as well as the one piece transfer case PTOs. Comparing the one from early one piece T case to the single direct split case PTO the early is heavier. The gear that rides on the gear inside the T case has a ball bearing compared to a bushing on the split case PTO. That split case PTO only spins when engaged so wear would be less. Did find one thread that mentioned the reverse idler gear in two direction split case PTO having a bushing. https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/pto-winch-reverse-do-you-use.497835/#post-6757729 Last post said it was forward/neutral/reverse spit transfer case PTO. The online parts site I looked at shows a bearing. Braved the heat and checked my forward/neutral/reverse split case PTO, it has bearing. Looking at the possibility of switching some of the internal parts and making the single direction a two direction. I remember a thread where it was mentioned switching internals but can't find it or one on what was needed to be done to use the early case on a split transfer case. The most obvious difference between the split transfer case PTO compared to the styles that were imported to the US is the shifter is on the front side rather than the back. The shaft fork shaft protrudes out the opposite side. Earlier ones it doesn't. It does appear they both use the same case and shifting fork. Not sure it's that big a deal to have the two direction PTO it is interesting to see if the parts from a earlier PTO could be switched out to do so.

 

[love2fly]

shelfboy1, I have read a few post where the shear pin is the main topic and understand the importance. My PTO when I bought it has only two problems one major and one minor and a few little things. One of the little things was when I was inspecting the worm gear shaft end on tear down I noticed someone did a re-dill on the shaft and I am still not sure what was left in the hole, drill bit end or old shear pin. Not sure what was going on with that. I do have a PTO manual so I am good.

I have found a few split G/B in the last few weeks. I don't think that they are that hard to find its just the conditions of the G/B. Out of four so far three were trashed (gears, case, bushing) and on was way over priced.
Since I have torn down the PTO winch I have been more focused on that more than the G/B but your information is worth gold. I will settle for a decent G/B with hopefully the shifter linkage included. That would be a big help as I don't have a lot of time right now to engineer parts do to work/family time.
As mentioned above the winch has a few problems but the major one was one of the foot mount bolt hole ears were broken off and the case being cast iron makes it a bit of a challenge to repair. Being as small repair in size a 1/8 99ni or 55ni electrode may be too much for it, so I am in search locally of a welder with 99in wire feed. Not impossible to fix just tricky.
The other minor is the fairlead rollers, they were a poor design but functional if maintained correctly, well the PO of this PTO winch let it set in the elements with dirt in the rollers to where they rusted so bad that heat and a press is no good. So I am now construction a new roller set with brass spacers instead of steel on steel. If I can find the bolts as the stock ones are history I can machine the spacers and maybe still use the stock roller still If I hone out the ends for the spacers as the inside of the shafts are pitted.
I have all the seals for reassembly as they are still available from Timken or CR. The wire rope is like new and is the original with the factory grease still on the last 75 feet of the drum.
I am still going to be looking for a G/B and if you guys come across any I am all ears.

Thanks much

 

[love2fly]

Any you guys have the metric bolt size for the vertical roller bolts. They are about 6.75" long with a 3/8 dim, and a M12-1.5 thread.
Part number 90101-12284 no longer available.
Thanks

 

[Pin_Head]

The broken foot can be repaired by cutting off the pad, drilling and tapping closely spaced holes of 1/8 x 24 into the cast iron, installing screws, welding over them with nickle filler and then welding a new steel pad on. The screws provide the mechanical strrenght to prevent cracking. If you search here, you will find an example of such a repair.

 

[love2fly]

I drop it off with a local welder who has been welding on cast iron farm equipment for year. He is going to Tig weld with nickel rod to get it to flow into the cast gap and beef it up.. Saw some of his work and I was lucky to find him. Look forward to seeing his work when done.
Thanks

 

[Pin_Head]

Welding on cast iron is always problematic because it will be brittle in the heat affected zone no matter who welds it or what you weld it with unless you weld it above 1500F and cool it slowly at 100 degrees / hr, which is like the conditions it was cast under. The point of the screws is to extend through the HAZ and provide mechanical strength against under bead cracking. The nickle filler prevents carbide precipitation, so you can drill, tap and machine it.

If it doesn't need tensile strength, then it won't matter how you weld it.

 

[shelfboy1]

i dont know what the winch is made of but i have welded them for years using 7018 and never had a problem 6011 has worked also .and no they havnt rebroke but thats just me proably because i dont know any better

 

[love2fly]

I have been searching for any posts that may shed some light on the possibilities of why the winch mount legs crack and if there is some precautions one can take in preventing it from happening again as in use and modifications.
I read that heavy side loading MAYBE one cause the breaking/cracking of a mount foot. With its design it would make sense to make if possible all pulls from a 45 degree angle from the center line on this winch. I have done quite a lot of winching with an electric winch to include side loading without any problems, but they were rated @ 8,000 -10,000 lbs. of load versus the 3,500 or so on the Toyota PTO winch.
I am only asking because I am looking at making any strength modifications on my PTO winch before final mounting.
Thanks much

 

[sadam_husain]

the winch mounts will only crack or break if whatever its mounted into twists or is out of alignment (or half the mounting bolts are missing) other than that the mounts are rock solid

its not uncommon to rip the worm gear out of the housing if its overloaded and running a bigger shear pin or the coupling has been welded onto the end of the shaft because of the under rated weak shear pins, its quite common to drill out the threaded bolt holes that fix the worm gear end plates to the winch housing and run long bolts right through to clamp the 2 end plates together, you can only do 3 long bolts not all 4 but its more than enough to stop the worm gear ripping the end plates out under too much load

 

[love2fly]

I saw a post on the worm gear housing reinforcement where it was welded with brackets, not bad but I do not plan on overloading the PTO winch, hopefully. Thanks for the info.
I had some time tonight to start putting the winch back together from the teardown inspection. I am to where I am installing the engage and disengage lever handle with drum brake. When I first got the winch I could not get the lever to even move now its works like new but the drum brake (to keep it from turning) spring system seems a little lame, no real positive hold. The book says nothing about doing a spring wrap and it seems as one can't do that anyway. I might look into a heavier spring set up. Anyone ever have this problem with a fix?
Oh yes the broken foot has been repaired to where it was taped with new threads, but I believe I will put a small flat washer on the back side with a nut just for reinforcement.
Thanks

 

[Pin_Head]

Generally, no drum brake is needed on a worm drive winch.

 

[love2fly]

I understand, I guess my point was the brake pad that is on the arm that holds the drum from turning when in neutral (when not engaged), not really a brake for the winch itself. The unit really is not functional for holding it from turning, no real pressure between the pad and drum. Just wondering if anyone had a solution to add more holding power.
Thanks

 

[Living in the Past]

Only purpose is to put some pressure on the drum when free wheeling cable out. Just shimming the brake pad would help.

 

[love2fly]

I agree a shim would be the easiest way to get more pressure. I believe that is the next step.
Thanks much.

 

[cuteo100]

Any you guys have the metric bolt size for the vertical roller bolts. They are about 6.75" long with a 3/8 dim, and a M12-1.5 thread. Part number 90101-12284 no longer available. Thanks

I bought mine here: M12-1.5 x 170mm DIN 960 Class 8.8 Plain Finish Hex Cap Screw | Fastenal

 

[love2fly]

Although I have already built mine, this is good information for the next guy, thanks for the post.