your right sorry
Engine bay body rips (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter bernd122465
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I am personally working on the product report for the bulging/cracking aprons, and will be meeting with them today to begin analysis of the failure on Graham's well known, heavily modified and often wheeled Dune Beige FJC.
Toyota is very involved in this product issue, but it will most likely not be a near-term solution or even acknowledgment until everything has been thoroughly dissected.
Toyota is very involved in this product issue, but it will most likely not be a near-term solution or even acknowledgment until everything has been thoroughly dissected.
Product report for whom & meeting with whom? Not being snarky at all...just curious at what level.
Let's just say valkyrie knows a guy who knows a guy who knows that valkyrie actually works at a Toyota dealership and is meeting with his TMS rep.
At the regional level at this point. Old aprons are packed up & ready to go to Houston.
Like I said though, it will most likely not be a near-term solution or even acknowledgment until everything has been thoroughly dissected.
TMS may beat us to it for all I know, they have been working on it in CA for a while now.
Thanks for the info-Please post updates when/if you have time. Following the FJCruiser forum is tedious because of all the commentary.
Thoroughly aware that this will take some time, but I still feel they're a little slow since this issue has affected the Prado for some time (correct me if I'm wrong).
- Thread starter
- #27
I am personally working on the product report for the bulging/cracking aprons, and will be meeting with them today to begin analysis of the failure on Graham's well known, heavily modified and often wheeled Dune Beige FJC.
Toyota is very involved in this product issue, but it will most likely not be a near-term solution or even acknowledgment until everything has been thoroughly dissected.
Valky
Thanks for the update and what your doing to solve this problem. Best of luck. Please let us know what you come up with.
Bernd
So, if this IS actually being caused by using heavy bumpers and winches up front, is it something that Toyota is going to honor under the warantee? Seems like they should concidering the fact that they not only are marketing the FJ with the big ARB bumper and 9.5 winch, but apparently you can get them from the dealer with the lift, bumper and winch installed. So toyota obviously has confidence in the set-up. Anyone have any thought on that?
- Thread starter
- #29
This is not caused by after market add ons. The Toyota Engineers looked at my rig ( Warn bumper, winch, lift...) and said none of the add ons caused my ripping. I have seen stock rigs with the bulges as well. Toyota is now replacing my fender aprons with the newer style. I do not believe this will fix the problem. It's just a Band-Aid until they or Valky come up with a solution.
Well, that's good to know. I guess I just get to cross my fingers and hope it doesn't happen to me. I will be paying close attention to your experience though, so please keep all of us up to date. At least Toyota is attempting to do something. I hope their "band-aid" works and doesn't mean there is actually a deaper design problem. Itwould be nice if it were that easy, huh?
Thanks Valky. Wish we could stop the speculation and misinformation on the other forums.
I'm sure Jim Downey knows all about FJ40s flaws including the spot welds that crack the paint and cause rust on the wheel wells, the rear tire carrier that rips the metal on the corners and the C channel that traps water and causes sill rust.
No rips on my FJC yet with almost 20,000 miles.
Specualting on what Toyota is going to do is a waste of time, considering they haven't even acknowledged a specific problem and are in the exploratory phase.
My personal theory is simply frame flex. Anyone who wheels a 2nd gen 4Runner is fully aware of the serious design flaw of having one of the lower control arm frame mounts unsupported. Many guys who try to wheel those things add an additional cross member for support.
I think when it's all said and done, either the frame design would be beefed and/or and additional cross member would be added.
All being my own speculation of course.
I have abulge developing on the right side of my engine bay but no cracks yet. I am usually also a little more ginger off road with my FJC, if I can't do it low and slow I normally don't think I should be rip roaring up the trail do to the fact I will most likely break something. I believe the cracks are formed due to the frame flexing at a higher speed and pressure creating a stronger instantaneous force on the frame and body causing first the bulge then as more of these instances occur the rip. This of course is just my .02 and really up for interpretation whether this should be perceived as a wearable thing or a warranty thing. I am hoping for a warranty thing but in my opinion Toyota can go either way with their legal obligation here.
Chris, can you swing by during lunch? I'd like to look at it.
Damn I didn't even see this. I might be able to stop by at lunch tomorrow, I won't get out of work until LATE tonight.
10-4, we'll get a bite to eat if you got time.. call first and I'll bring Barb.
Thanks for all the input on this issue Valky! Your cool head is quite assuring compared to the "Chicken Little" syndrome some folks are having over this.
The rip/bulge issue effects the gamut of FJ's from the highly modified to stock. Some rips/bulges are even occurring on vehicles not taken off road. Could this be attributed to the body mounts possibly as well as frame flex?
Like other owners here, we'd love to hear what Toyo is looking into even though they are not saying much of anything at this point.
(My FJC was built in 04/06 with 29K miles with no rips or bulges. The only mod of concern for me is the body mount trim to fit 285's.)
The rip/bulge issue effects the gamut of FJ's from the highly modified to stock. Some rips/bulges are even occurring on vehicles not taken off road. Could this be attributed to the body mounts possibly as well as frame flex?
Like other owners here, we'd love to hear what Toyo is looking into even though they are not saying much of anything at this point.
(My FJC was built in 04/06 with 29K miles with no rips or bulges. The only mod of concern for me is the body mount trim to fit 285's.)
Thanks for the kind words.
IMHO, no. In fact, if the mounts were weak, any damage would be in that area. Being that the pressure is being relieved at the stress relief point of the crumple zone indent, that speaks volumes about the strength of the connecting points.
Basically, the engine compartment is like a 3-sided box, with the core support being the third part of the box. The aprons are welded to the firewall/cabin, and under each "corner" (if you will) is a body mount- 2 under the body, and 2 under the core support.
Since the aprons are bulging (and cracking in some cases), this leads me to believe that the frame is twisting, causing the bulges/cracks to form at different rates.
The only other way it could bulge was if the frame bent down in front, in which case both bulges would likely appear more uniform to each other. In the normal course of vehicle operation, this is unfathomable to me. If anything, it would be more likely for the frame to bow up, but this would cause the affected areas to tear without bulging, due to a stretching action.
I think this will end up being nothing more than the by-product of a flexy frame exerting an odd force on a pre-existing crumple zone. I do not think, from what I have seen, that there is a serious structural issue, but it is still early in the game for most of these.
Toyota may simply elect to reinforce the aprons of early models, or they may choose to do nothing if they determine there is not a significant risk to the structural integrity/safety.
I know there will be a lot of "chicken littles" (and attorneys) who will never be satisfied with anything, and a lot of wanna-be engineers who will debate the safety of a "pre-crumpled" crumple zone, but in the end I believe Toyota will make the best decision for everyone involved, with the safety of the consumer at the forefront.
All I do know is that any decision will undoubtedly not please everyone.
These are my opinions only, and not that of Toyota. Please don't try to make a Federal Case out of my opinions. I am not an engineer, nor have I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently.
LOL, I like the little disclaimer. holiday inn express?
have they looked into the similar body/fender cracks that hit the Prado120 owners in Aus? There were complaints there as well, backdating several years.
If they are related, your theory of the flexy frame makes sense. I have not heard of anything from 4th gen 4Runner owners though... doesn't mean anything but nothing popped up in the forums at least.
have they looked into the similar body/fender cracks that hit the Prado120 owners in Aus? There were complaints there as well, backdating several years.
If they are related, your theory of the flexy frame makes sense. I have not heard of anything from 4th gen 4Runner owners though... doesn't mean anything but nothing popped up in the forums at least.