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Engine bay body rips

Discussion in 'FJ Cruiser' started by bernd122465, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. bernd122465

    bernd122465 Regular Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Troutdale, OR
  2. OlyWaFJ

    OlyWaFJ New Member

    Messages:
    435
    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    22100+ miles

    No bulge or rip so far...
  3. AATLAS1X

    AATLAS1X Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    7,265
    Location:
    97707
    Some one has left the pavement...........
  4. bernd122465

    bernd122465 Regular Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Troutdale, OR
    Yes it would look that way but I and many others at the other forum have the same issues. I for one have never left the ground. I have wheeled this vehicle quite alot. It was bought as a trail rig. Its been crawled and flexed . If you doubt me thats fine. If you wheel your rig please look under your hood or check out the link. Its something that might happen to all our rigs.
  5. chewey46

    chewey46 Regular Member

    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    Seattle
    What I would like to know is if people have done an aftermarket bumper, lift and skid plates if this same problem happens??? I think the under armor might help with the crack, but not the bulge.

    I have wheeled with bernd and check my rig, no problems. But I am stock height and OEM bumper......
  6. FirstToy

    FirstToy New Member

    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Socal
    There is a precedent, this isn't new. The Prado 120 (FJC's twin) has had similar cracks appear in the body near the same location. Also check your wheelwells.

    apparently, any bullbar (or added front weight- even OEM Toyota bullbars in AUS) seem to cause cracks- not proven, just *seems* this might be the cause.

    It is possible that the way the bodymounts are designed, in conjunction w/ soem front frame flex is causing this.

    ----------------------
    from aussie owners- lots on 120scool
    Drew
    Originally when ARB released the bull bar for the 120 they removed the standard front body mount crush tubes and fitted shorter ones to crush the front body mount down. Mine was fitted with these last year in August when I bought my car brand new. ARB don't fit these shorter crush tubes anymore and leave the standard toyota ones. They don't reckon that the shorter tubes caused the cracking in the inner guard but changed anyway. I think it was a way of reducing the bar wobble.

    One theory is that because the front body mount was pulling the body down onto the chassis rail and the next body mount is under the fire wall, over time and corrugations it caused the inner guards (the weakest point) to crack. No evidence as toyota bars are doing the same.


    -----------------------
    Prado photos attatched from stencorp69's Prado GXL Diesel

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  7. Downey

    Downey SILVER Star

    Messages:
    2,131
    Location:
    Brea, Calif.
    Ok, I just have to be a wise ass. I dont recall any of my FJ40'
    s having cracks like that. But then I don't recall any of my FJ40's having big grey plastic boxes out on the ends of the front bumper either.
  8. FirstToy

    FirstToy New Member

    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Socal
    This is the FJ Cruiser tech forum. Here is a link to the FJ40 tech section - http://forum.ih8mud.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8
  9. helocat

    helocat Tube is your buddy! Supporting Vendor

    Messages:
    579
    Contrare my friend! Check the FJ40 body just behind the door striker plate and the rear tub side. (body calking is pulled away and small cracks appear) This is where the FJ40’s develop body cracks, ask the restoration guys for more info.

    Back to the real topic: My GSJ15 only has 2400 miles, but most of that is of road todate. No rips yet. We will see what happens when we chop off the IFS if that helps!

    Mark
  10. FirstToy

    FirstToy New Member

    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Socal
    This is some more info from Prado owners dealing with the same issue-
    all info from the 120scool list.

    ------------------------------------------------------
    > >Do you have a photo of the spacer tubes on the
    > car cause i do have
    > an ARB sahara bumber and i'm worried too.
    > >
    > > Looks like Toyota and ARB have finally realised
    > the problems
    > causing
    > > the firewall cracks. They have both stopped
    > replacing the front
    > body
    > > mount spacer tubes with shortened ones when
    > fitting their bullbars.
    > >
    > > I spoke to my ARB dealer yesterday and he said
    > both ARB and Toyota
    > > leave the originals in now and that ARB is going
    > to make a kit
    > > available to revert back to the standard length
    > ones.
    > >
    > > I can't find my originals, so ARB are going to
    > give me a set they
    > > have laying around.
    > > I would imagine that when they are changed back
    > the gap between the
    > > bullbar and the front fender will increase, so
    > the bullbar may need
    > > to be adjusted.
    > >
    > > I will let you know how it goes.
    > >
    > > Below is a post I made earlier on the topic:
    > >
    > > "I have seen discussions in other area's of 120
    > prado's cracking
    > > below the bonnet hinges on the firewall.
    > > This has been blamed on the vehicles being
    > fitted with an ARB steel
    > > bar, winch and dual battery.
    > > I have an ARB bar, winch and dual battery
    > fitted, so have some
    > > concerns.
    > > In my opinion it is not the extra weight of the
    > bar and winch that
    > > is causing the problem,( the bar is attatched to
    > the chasis, not
    > the
    > > body). But is caused by the body mounting
    > spacers that are replaced
    > > during the fitment of the ARB bar.(fitted the
    > bar myself).
    > > These spacers control the distance the body sits
    > off the chasis. My
    > > theory is that if the front two spacers are
    > replaced with shortened
    > > ones (supplied in the ARB kit, about 20mm
    > shorter), and the rest of
    > > the spacers on the body mounts are left standard
    > height you are
    > > effectively pulling the body down at the front.
    > The next body mount
    > > back is under the firewall. So you are trying to
    > bend the front
    > down
    > > from this point. Naturally this is where the
    > stress will occour.
    > > I have spoken to ARB about this and they say the
    > spacer is required
    > > to be shorter because the body mount rubbers are
    > soft and you will
    > > get up to 2" of movement of the body. They also
    > state that Toyota
    > do
    > > this when fitting their bars.
    > > ARB know of 4 vehicles in Australia that are
    > fitted with ARB bars
    > > and have cracked at the firewall. They say these
    > vehicles are used
    > > extensivly on corragations, and that Toyota are
    > repairing them.
    > >
    > > There was also talk of ARB not fitting dual
    > batteries in the 120
    > > because of this problem. They have denied this
    > and say they don't
    > > actually make a tray for the 120 (at the moment
    > they modify a tray
    > > from an 80 series). But they have a tray coming
    > out for the 120
    > > soon.
    > >
    > > I might look into replacing the shorter spacer
    > with the original
    > one
    > > and then replacing the body mount rubber with a
    > firmer one. (this
    > is
    > > what I believe should have been done in the
    > first place)."
    > >
    > > Slads
    ________________________________________

    Toyota aren't Bad are they
    The cracking is a a known issue with Toyota.

    My 120 series is used for normal 4WDing, no hard rock climbing, mainly
    touring, done the Simson, Cape York and the Victoria High country, after
    50,000km ended up with cracks in the fire wall and inner guards.

    Toyota rejected the warranty claim as it had a steel Bar and After Market
    Springs and shocks, They said the problem was caused due to the compression
    of the front body mounts, After I got the car fixed I checked out the amount
    of body movement and there is a heap of flexing of the chassic and body. The
    body mounts need to be as per the factory set up to allow for the flexing,
    With the mounts compressed something had to give, in my case the body
    cracked.

    The only thing is
    A- The aftermarket Bull Bar company were doing the same as Toyato (Toyato
    were compressing the body mounts when they were fitting Toyota Sovereign
    Bull Bar) They too started having cracking issues and stopped compressing
    the mounts.

    I checked out 2 second hand 120 series in a Toyota yard, one had compressed
    mounts, the other didn't, both were fitted with the Toyota Sovereign
    bars,mind you when I put this to Toyato there answer was " was the Sovereign
    Bar fitted by Toyota"

    B - Another person I know has a 120 series with Toyota Sovereign Bar and
    Toyota Super Winch, with King Springs and Belstien Shock and the body mounts
    are NOT compressed, and he to has started to have cracking in the inner
    guards (Different spot to mind) At this Stage Toyota have rejected his claim
    due to the fitment of the after market springs and shocks, hes still working
    on the issue.

    So what is the problem ? Driving on corrugated roads ?

    Dennis
    ________________________________________________

    I had only done some beach driving with factory suspension, Darren (ATS)
    showed me the cracks when I got new suspension fitted, and after going on
    the great Central road - which is a well maintained dirt road - I noticed
    the serious crack had appeared. In the end I couldn't waste time stuffing
    around with Toyota for months so I got a welder mate of mine to fix them up
    and also fix up all the crap spot welding in the front end.
    ____________________________________________________

    I spoke to ARB head office earlier this year, before fitting an old man Emu
    kit to my vehicle (obviously worried about the cracking issue). The guy i
    spoke to said that the cracking was known. It was brought to their attention
    mainly in the mining areas in the west of the country, where vehicles had
    been subject to pretty hard lives on corrugated dirt roads (and as Darren
    pointed out, hire car companies had also expressed concern in those areas).
    ARB told me it wasn't just vehicles with aftermarket suspensions or other
    accessories - some were stock standard. He then went on to explain why the
    cracks could occur. He also mentioned to me that the OME suspension was
    actually initially softer than the factory setup (but became firmer when
    compressed), so it should actually be kinder on the vehicle than the factory
    setup. We finished the phone conversation talking about the type of driving
    that i would expect to be doing and he said that ARB look after their
    customers, so i find it "interesting" that Toyota could claim that only two
    vehicles have been reported.
    ___________________________________________________

    We have done several with ARB bar, toyota bar, our suspension, shortened
    body crush tubes,
    some of which have over 180,000km on them now, and only one has stress
    cracked, which had
    ARB suspension before ours, and had a heavy hit in the front on a sand dune
    which put a
    40mm gap bar to headlights, and hit the front fenders into the a pillars and
    doors.

    This vehicle stress cracked the firewall, inner fenders and inner lower
    guards right above
    the shockers, which have now been fixed.

    We inspect them when they come in, so we can make the cracks apparent to the
    owner before
    we fit suspension up, and not have them wondering after.

    Regards Darren McRae
    ATS 4X4 90 Fyans St Geelong Sth 3220
    Phone 0352 216599
    Fax 0352 231826
    _____________________________________________
  11. FirstToy

    FirstToy New Member

    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Socal
    Also a solution- from the cruiser guru of AUS, Darren McRae.
    I recommend you do this repair and enjoy the truck, while you continue on with the research. You can always retroactively be reimbursed or repaird if Toyota decideds to warranty this.
    _____________________________________________________

    There is a bit of a mis match when a bar is fitted between body and chassis
    movement
    in the 120, but generally the stress cracks are caused by the vehicle
    hitting the
    bump stops and transferring that shock wave into the body which doesnt cope
    with it
    as well.

    We have found alot less cracking with good aftermarket shockers and springs
    to suit the
    weight and accessories of the vehicle, but like the 100 ifs A arm cracking,
    its still
    possible, depending on how hard it can hit the bumpstop, like maybe that
    wash away you
    didnt see etc.

    But, a bit like the 80 series toyota C pillar cracks, they tend not to
    spread to far,
    or cause any real damage, and you can drill a small [2-3mm] hole at the end
    of each crack
    to stop them spreading if your worried.

    Generally, if your front bump stop positions are shiny, and the paint worn
    off, you will
    probably have the stress cracks.

    Regards Darren McRae
    ATS 4X4 90 Fyans St Geelong Sth 3220
    Phone 0352 216599
    Fax 0352 231826

    _______________________________________

    *Prado 120's have some early model radiator supports crack also. Can you guys check your FJ Cruisers if this is also present?

  12. bernd122465

    bernd122465 Regular Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Troutdale, OR
    First Toy
    Thank you so much for your input and help. Drilling holes was my first thoght when I saw tthe cracks. I'm still planning on doing this after Toyota looks at my rig. That is if they don't take it in for repair.
    Bernd
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2007
  13. LandCruisers4Life

    LandCruisers4Life New Member

    Messages:
    1,822
    Location:
    New York City
    Toyota should come up with a strong repair for this. If they still ignore it, like the E-Locker problems on some vehicles, I suggest beefing up the area yourself with some plate steel and a welder.
  14. spaldam

    spaldam New Member

    Messages:
    428
    Location:
    Higley, AZ
    You really need to fix the underlying problem. Even with some plate steal, it'll just find the next weakest point to break at, unless the underlining problem just happens to only be that areas that are breaking are simply too weak.

    It sounds to me that what really needs to be done is find, or force Toyota to build in, some better mounting points for the bumper and grill guards. Or it could be a need for a stronger and less flexible frame, but that could compromise crash safety.
  15. LandCruisers4Life

    LandCruisers4Life New Member

    Messages:
    1,822
    Location:
    New York City
    I agree if this will be handled by Toyota. However will they do anything? Maybe Toyota will have to be pressured by the US Government to do so or nothing?

    Seems the frames are plenty strong, but the sheet metal is what is actually designed to flex and be crushable for crashes. That's my take on it.

    On the older 40 model FJ the frames flexed as well, but the sheet metal on those wasn't designed to crumple for a crash. If anything, it was designed to resist crumpling! :D
  16. FirstToy

    FirstToy New Member

    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Socal
    I don't think guessing about it is productive-

    Document everything and report the issue to your Toyota dealer.

    Ask them if you can weld and gusset the cracks to prevent them from spreading in the meantime. get it in writing that they ok'd you to repair Let your dealer or insurance handle it. The only reason I say that is to have a good paper trail if a warranty repair becomes available.

    In the meantime, just keep on enjoying the truck. jmo
  17. Eric Winkworth

    Eric Winkworth New Member

    Messages:
    2,044
    and to think of the JDM import you could have got for 40000 hahahahahahaha
  18. LandCruisers4Life

    LandCruisers4Life New Member

    Messages:
    1,822
    Location:
    New York City


    ???

    What import a 70? I don't like the 70, so why would I waste my time? Besides that, my FJC will outwheel your 70 any day, even if it did have stress cracks in the inner aprons (which it doesn't). So bugger off to your own corner.
  19. Eric Winkworth

    Eric Winkworth New Member

    Messages:
    2,044
    wonder where your FJ will be in 20 years... my 1986 CDM spec, is still going strong... but it's a commercail grade truck, FJ cruisers are not...
  20. FirstToy

    FirstToy New Member

    Messages:
    4,320
    Location:
    Socal
    What a great topic for CHAT, Eric Winkworth. I think you should start a topic about it there and discuss in depth.

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